Biggest problem with defense this season

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-27-2018, 09:08 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: The biggest problem with the defense this season was by far tackling.

Yes ! major issue

I don't know if there are stats for yards after catch and yards after contact for RB's as a team defense stat but if there are I'd say it's not going out on to much of a limb to bet we were among the worst.

And that was a major part of us being the worst 3rd down D in the league.

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-27-2018, 09:11 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: That's when being the worst 3rd down defense in the league (last I knew) comes into play. If they can't get off the field, they don't get to rest.

Also I am not sure if this is part of the problem of why they can't get off the field, or if it's a result of the fact that they can't get off the field, but they rotate FAR too often. Way too commonly see a DL with no Atkins or no Dunlap out there so it's like MJ and 3 guys who were 3rd on the depth chart out there. Of course that's going to fail. I just can't tell if they're getting playing time because the defense is stuck on the field, or if they are just trying to get too cute with their rotation because of that one or two years where it worked well under Zimmer.

Yep

Glad you mentioned MJ that's a giant part of the problem as well. Guy is totally ineffective as RDE ! When you have a weak link like that it dominos across the entire D. The opposition knows the can chip him with a TE or RB and slide the line protection.

[BengalsRocker]

(12-27-2018, 09:20 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Yep

Glad you mentioned MJ that's a giant part of the problem as well. Guy is totally ineffective as RDE ! When you have a weak link like that it dominos across the entire D. The opposition knows the can chip him with a TE or RB and slide the line protection.

MJ had a few moments this season.  One being the Dolphins game which I attended.  He stepped up in that game.

He just is not consistent at all.

I tend to think this coaching staff gets cute with packages as Leonard alluded to.

Putting MJ in there at NT or DT then pulling Geno and Dunlap is kinda crazy IMO.

I understand the concept but why pull guys who are your best players to create pressure on 3rd/passing downs?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-27-2018, 05:26 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Meh, I've not really seen him be a difference maker yet. He only played in 3 games in 2018, totaled 1 QB hit and 0 sacks. Last year, 0 hits or sacks. I don't have data for "pressures" though since I don't prescribe to PFF premium. 

Played pretty well everytime i have watched Glasgow and he is that Nickel DT you are talking about that we were
missing. I read he had a pretty good PFF rating last season and was looking good before the injury. As JFK and others
have stated tackling was the biggest problem with this Defense this season, namely the LB'ers and Dre.

And you have to cover the 1st down line when on 3rd and long, you don't give those big damn cushions.

[SunsetBengal]

The biggest problem on defense this season was and still is the inability to stop the run. There are several factors that lead into that problem, like poor tackling by sub-standard LBs, and the ineffectiveness of the DTs to fill holes and take up space. When teams can run at will, a defense fails to control what the offense does. When a defense can stop the run effectively, offenses can pass when they want to, rather than being forced into a one dimensional existence.

When a defense can stop the run regularly, with authority, they can then not fear the run and go all out on pressuring the passer. Plain and simple.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-27-2018, 11:35 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The biggest problem on defense this season was and still is the inability to stop the run.  There are several factors that lead into that problem, like poor tackling by sub-standard LBs, and the ineffectiveness of the DTs to fill holes and take up space.  When teams can run at will, a defense fails to control what the offense does.  When a defense can stop the run effectively, offenses can pass when they want to, rather than being forced into a one dimensional existence.

When a defense can stop the run regularly, with authority, they can then not fear the run and go all out on pressuring the passer.  Plain and simple.

Pretty surprised Billings had a PFF rating in the high 70's with this being the case.

Hope this guy grows into the player i thought he would.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-27-2018, 11:43 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Pretty surprised Billings had a PFF rating in the high 70's with this being the case.

Hope this guy grows into the player i thought he would.

Billings has some good moments, and will likely continue to develop.  But, don't get caught up so much in PFF ratings.  As many have mentioned in the past, weather good or bad, the PFF rating doesn't always mean what you think it means.  Until they clearly identify the criteria that they use to make their judgements, they are just selling a "mystery formula" to fans wanting to buy some "inside info".

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-27-2018, 11:35 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The biggest problem on defense this season was and still is the inability to stop the run.  There are several factors that lead into that problem, like poor tackling by sub-standard LBs, and the ineffectiveness of the DTs to fill holes and take up space.  When teams can run at will, a defense fails to control what the offense does.  When a defense can stop the run effectively, offenses can pass when they want to, rather than being forced into a one dimensional existence.

When a defense can stop the run regularly, with authority, they can then not fear the run and go all out on pressuring the passer.  Plain and simple.

Yep, since basically the beginning of football time if a team can run the ball on you, you're beat. And we get ran on with regularity !

We need a run stuffing, space eating, blocker taking up NT in a bad way. Is Glasgow that guy ? I dunno

[PlayadLc]

(12-27-2018, 06:41 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: No doubt Haslet needs shown the door as well.

Everyone here is missing the boat. Look at the article. Our Dline, our supposed strongest unit, is at the bottom of the league in pressures.

Our Dline and Oline are trash, we have no TE’s, our LB’s are among the worst in the league and we have okay DB’s.

It’s not the coaches guys. It’s really not. This Bengals team is void of talent in a major way.

[Whodey614]

(12-27-2018, 11:43 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Pretty surprised Billings had a PFF rating in the high 70's with this being the case.

Hope this guy grows into the player i thought he would.

 From what I've seen, Billings has caught some of the similar criticism Peko received his last few years here. I don't get it because he's had a pretty solid season. Even has a couple of sacks and scouts said he had zero ability to rush the passer. 

I wouldn't be against an Ed Oliver type of pick if he's available as he would be the perfect DT to pair with Geno (and replacement when Geno retires), but Billings is far from the biggest problem of the defense this year. Having linebackers that are disciplined and can attack the run helps a defensive line too.

[*jason*]

(12-27-2018, 09:05 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Geno has five sacks in two games. That means he has five in the other thirteen games. Carlos has one in the last seven. They had thirteen between them in the first eight games and only five since. Four of those five sacks since game eight came against the Raiders. When your top d-lineman disappear for half the season the whole defense is going to suffer.

That's because every QB can just dump it off to a TE or RB in 1.5 seconds... LBs can't cover shit. NOBODY can get sacks with that happening. You can throw out numbers all day. Pay attention to details.

[sandwedge]

(12-27-2018, 01:34 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: I think this is the biggest problem with the defense and it needs to be fixed, either through personnel changes or scheme changes.  Ok I’m not seeing the image I attached, so the problem is pressure on percentage of snaps. The Bengals ranked dead last in the league and it wasn’t even close.

32. Bengals - 25.9%
31. Raiders - 30.8%

Maybe someone should tell the Bengals they can rush more than 4 players... When they do rush a LB, they drop a DL into coverage. If I were an OC, I would love those odds of someone being open underneath and out running a 300 lbs man.

[sandwedge]

(12-27-2018, 11:35 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The biggest problem on defense this season was and still is the inability to stop the run.  There are several factors that lead into that problem, like poor tackling by sub-standard LBs, and the ineffectiveness of the DTs to fill holes and take up space.  When teams can run at will, a defense fails to control what the offense does.  When a defense can stop the run effectively, offenses can pass when they want to, rather than being forced into a one dimensional existence.

When a defense can stop the run regularly, with authority, they can then not fear the run and go all out on pressuring the passer.  Plain and simple.

Spot on.

[Catmandude123]

(12-28-2018, 12:37 PM)jason Wrote: That's because every QB can just dump it off to a TE or RB in 1.5 seconds... LBs can't cover shit. NOBODY can get sacks with that happening. You can throw out numbers all day. Pay attention to details.

So the Raiders just forgot to throw at the weak lbers. The first eight games when they had THIRTEEN sacks the QBs magically forgot to throw at the weak linebackers. Watch the games and pay attention to details. You would like to believe every pass was thrown in 1.5 seconds but it just proves either you don't watch the games or you have no clue that football is a team sport with the success of the defense is rooted in winning the war in the trenches. Our line lost against the run and the pass . Season grade F.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-28-2018, 01:16 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: So the Raiders just forgot to throw at the weak lbers. The first eight games when they had THIRTEEN sacks the QBs magically forgot to throw at the weak linebackers. Watch the games and pay attention to details. You would like to believe every pass was thrown in 1.5 seconds but it just proves either you don't watch the games or you have no clue that football is a team sport with the success of the defense is rooted in winning the war in the trenches. Our line lost against the run and the pass . Season grade F.

It's a culmination of a lot of shitburgers across the board.  The LB corp was absolutely straight up doo doo as well after Preston Brown's injury.  Vigil was playing decent in coverage, but getting knocked all over the place in the run game.  Hardy Nickerson shouldn't be starting anywhere, and age is catching up to Vinny Rey.  Burfict was a shit show, Evans wasn't much better.  QBs could dump off the ball over the middle with impunity.

The first few games, Lawson and Glasgow were out there helping generate pressure.

The d line has been bad, the whole defense has been bad, but to act like the LB corp isn't the worst of the bad is disingenuous at best.  After all, against the run, the line's job is to eat blocks and the backers are to fill the holes.  Most of the time, the LBs weren't within a country mile of the proper gap.  They were a steaming pile.  The dline was a less fresh pile.  If they get an F, the LB corps gets an F----------------------to infinity.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

Why in the hell this defense seldom runs stunts and twists across the line is beyond me.  It's like these dumbasses with the headsets around here think all the interior linemen can do is bullrush, and all the DEs can do is pressure from the outside shoulder.  GET CREATIVE YOU SLUGS!

[THE PISTONS]

(12-27-2018, 02:07 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: The Dline was without any doubt my biggest disappointment of the season !! I really thought they were gonna be a top level unit. I knew the LBers were our weakness, didn't think they would be as awful as they were but still not totally unexpected.

But our Dline, never dreamed they would be as ineffective, in the big picture, as they were. In my opinion a space/blocker eating NT is a must in the offseason.

I remember in preseason everyone was talking about how our pass rush would be unstoppable.

Just like 2 years ago, we almost had too many weapons on offense!

[Joelist]

It's hard to pin the whole of the poor defense on one area when the D has been crap for two whole seasons now. The DL only gets pressure in inconsistent spurts and never when it counts, the LBers are always in the wrong spot and really only Vigil is decent in coverage (Brown may be but he was hurt so much we did not get to see much). The secondary also is constantly in the wrong spot and while some of them play the ball okay in the air none of them seem to understand actually catching INTs.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-28-2018, 12:08 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Billings has some good moments, and will likely continue to develop.  But, don't get caught up so much in PFF ratings.  As many have mentioned in the past, weather good or bad, the PFF rating doesn't always mean what you think it means.  Until they clearly identify the criteria that they use to make their judgements, they are just selling a "mystery formula" to fans wanting to buy some "inside info".

Yeah, very true, just interesting is all.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-28-2018, 02:05 PM)Wyche Wrote: Why in the hell this defense seldom runs stunts and twists across the line is beyond me.  It's like these dumbasses with the headsets around here think all the interior linemen can do is bullrush, and all the DEs can do is pressure from the outside shoulder.  GET CREATIVE YOU SLUGS!

Exactly, it is so boring to watch the Bengal LBs predictably come up to the line to fake a blitz, only to watch them get a jump on their drops, about a half a second before the snap.  

Are they thinking that they're giving the QB "something to think about"?  Well, the QB is likely thinking, "Hmm, I got an easy dump window, right behind those two guys."..