Biggest problem with defense this season

[Yojimbo]

(12-28-2018, 02:05 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Why in the hell this defense seldom runs stunts and twists across the line is beyond me.  It's like these dumbasses with the headsets around here think all the interior linemen can do is bullrush, and all the DEs can do is pressure from the outside shoulder.  GET CREATIVE YOU SLUGS!

I noticed that particularly under Austin. He liked to do what’s called a mush rush, where lineman have to rush within their lanes to keep a QB in the pocket. Works ok against running QB’s, but pointless against pocket passers.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-28-2018, 12:29 AM)PlayadLc Wrote: Everyone here is missing the boat. Look at the article. Our Dline, our supposed strongest unit, is at the bottom of the league in pressures.

Our Dline and Oline are trash, we have no TE’s, our LB’s are among the worst in the league and we have okay DB’s.

It’s not the coaches guys. It’s really not. This Bengals team is void of talent in a major way.

Yeah, right, Haslett has nothing to do with our LB core being the worst in the NFL and Geno, Dunlap, WJ3,
Bates and Hubbard have no talent...

Good coaches have done much better with much less and Haslett has had his Linebackers out of position since
he got here, they don't fill gaps, they cannot tackle worth a shit and they cannot cover. Some of these LB's were
supposed to be decent in coverage in college too like Vigil, Evans and Jefferson.

Just cause of your post i am calling for Burney's head with having this much talent to work with on the D-line
and them being this bad. Losing Lawson and Glasgow hurt but it shouldn't be this bad.

(12-28-2018, 01:23 AM)Whodey614 Wrote:  From what I've seen, Billings has caught some of the similar criticism Peko received his last few years here. I don't get it because he's had a pretty solid season. Even has a couple of sacks and scouts said he had zero ability to rush the passer. 

I wouldn't be against an Ed Oliver type of pick if he's available as he would be the perfect DT to pair with Geno (and replacement when Geno retires), but Billings is far from the biggest problem of the defense this year. Having linebackers that are disciplined and can attack the run helps a defensive line too.

Billings can bullrush but that is about it right now but he is still really young. Still have hope, he has better stats
than Peko's best year here this season.

(12-28-2018, 12:37 PM)jason Wrote: That's because every QB can just dump it off to a TE or RB in 1.5 seconds... LBs can't cover shit. NOBODY can get sacks with that happening. You can throw out numbers all day. Pay attention to details.

Hit the nail on the head.

(12-28-2018, 02:03 PM)Wyche Wrote: It's a culmination of a lot of shitburgers across the board.  The LB corp was absolutely straight up doo doo as well after Preston Brown's injury.  Vigil was playing decent in coverage, but getting knocked all over the place in the run game.  Hardy Nickerson shouldn't be starting anywhere, and age is catching up to Vinny Rey.  Burfict was a shit show, Evans wasn't much better.  QBs could dump off the ball over the middle with impunity.

The first few games, Lawson and Glasgow were out there helping generate pressure.

The d line has been bad, the whole defense has been bad, but to act like the LB corp isn't the worst of the bad is disingenuous at best.  After all, against the run, the line's job is to eat blocks and the backers are to fill the holes.  Most of the time, the LBs weren't within a country mile of the proper gap.  They were a steaming pile.  The dline was a less fresh pile.  If they get an F, the LB corps gets an F----------------------to infinity.

Yes, it is a lot of things but damn have these backers been terrible.

Need to get a new LB coach and add a couple talented LB's.

(12-28-2018, 02:05 PM)Wyche Wrote: Why in the hell this defense seldom runs stunts and twists across the line is beyond me.  It's like these dumbasses with the headsets around here think all the interior linemen can do is bullrush, and all the DEs can do is pressure from the outside shoulder.  GET CREATIVE YOU SLUGS!

No creativity whatsoever, this is on the coaches.

[Circleville Guy]

The offensive lines have no worries about our blitz, they can focus 100% in their minds on blocking our Dline. They can double team and use TE’s because the Bengals need 3 new linebackers as starters. The Dline does need another Tackle too but there’s zero fear of blocking a lb or anyone coming on a blitz. The talent to blitz isn’t there and Marvin is conservative on everything that he does. He’s always been a ***** and afraid to go for it.

[fredtoast]

(12-28-2018, 02:37 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Billings can bullrush but that is about it right now but he is still really young. Still have hope, he has better stats
than Peko's best year here this season.

Billings has 28 tkls and 2.5 sacks.

Peko '06... 43 tlks, 2.5 sacks
Peko '11... 66 tkls, 2.5 sacks
Peko '13... 52 tkls, 3.0 sacks
Peko '15... 35 tkls, 5.0 sacks

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-28-2018, 03:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Billings has 28 tkls and 2.5 sacks.

Peko '06... 43 tlks, 2.5 sacks
Peko '11... 66 tkls, 2.5 sacks
Peko '13... 52 tkls, 3.0 sacks
Peko '15... 35 tkls, 5.0 sacks

Please include tackles for loss, pressures, forced fumbles, tipped balls etc if we are going there.

Believe it was Jakeypoo that provided these the last time i saw it. Didn't think Billings was having that good
of a year but he actually isn't bad. Still really young too with upside.

[J24]

(12-28-2018, 03:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Billings has 28 tkls and 2.5 sacks.

Peko '06... 43 tlks, 2.5 sacks
Peko '11... 66 tkls, 2.5 sacks
Peko '13... 52 tkls, 3.0 sacks
Peko '15... 35 tkls, 5.0 sacks

Peko has never had more than 6 TFLs in a season and never more than 6 QB hits in a season.  
So far this season Billings has had 7 TFLs and 7 QB hits.
I would say Billings is a more explosive NT then Peko but Peko was more of a lunch pale type of player.
I think both are good NTs but I would take Billings and his potential over Peko(when he was a Bengal).

[fredtoast]

(12-28-2018, 03:22 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Please include tackles for loss, pressures, forced fumbles, tipped balls etc if we are going there.

Billings has zero tipped passes (PD) in 2 seasons.  Peko had 12 in 11 seasons as a Bengals.
Billings has zero forced fumbles.  Peko had 3
Billings has zero fumble recoveries.  Peko had 5

[fredtoast]

(12-28-2018, 04:18 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Peko has never had more than 6 TFLs in a season and never more than 6 QB hits in a season.  
So far this season Billings has had 7 TFLs and 7 QB hits.

Peko had 6 TFL three times as a Bengal including '15 when he had twice as many sacks as Billings (5.0 to 2.5) and a lot more tackles (35 to 28). 

Peko also had 6 QBHits three times including '11 when he had the same number of sacks as Billings (2.5) and over twice as many tackles (66 to 28).

[J24]

(12-28-2018, 04:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Peko had 6 TFL three times as a Bengal including '15 when he had twice as many sacks as Billings (5.0 to 2.5) and a lot more tackles (35 to 28). 

Peko also had 6 QBHits three times including '11 when he had the same number of sacks as Billings (2.5) and over twice as many tackles (66 to 28).

Yeah and he never had more than 6 TFLs or QB hits. Peko hustle was unmatched but he wasn't a game changer at NT either. I think Billings can be that game changer everyone wants him to be.

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-28-2018, 03:22 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Please include tackles for loss, pressures, forced fumbles, tipped balls etc if we are going there.

Believe it was Jakeypoo that provided these the last time i saw it. Didn't think Billings was having that good
of a year but he actually isn't bad. Still really young too with upside.

I think a part of this is Billings has suffered from the same ailment that affects the rest of the defense - poor coaching.

Marvin neutered this defense from the start with his selection of Austin. You can't run a defense and say ok boys go out there and line up in base 4-3 zone and just roll with the punches, play soft, play back.

We've had little to no innovation, stunting, blitzing, disguising, at all. MJ has been in at RDE way to much even before the injuries and that hurts every other player down the line when the opposing offense knows there's a weak link on the field.

Geno and Carlos have likewise suffered.

[3wt]

(12-27-2018, 02:07 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: The Dline was without any doubt my biggest disappointment of the season !! I really thought they were gonna be a top level unit. I knew the LBers were our weakness, didn't think they would be as awful as they were but still not totally unexpected.

But our Dline, never dreamed they would be as ineffective, in the big picture, as they were. In my opinion a space/blocker eating NT is a must in the offseason.

One who can shed, and knows what gap he's supposed to be in - and can stay on his feet.

Been very disappointed in Billings

[*Synric*]

Easy.

1. Playcalling. Austin ran a very stale defense.

2. Talent at linebacker. Jordan Evans played a lot of snaps this season due to injuries and suspension. Alot of games this year it was a rotation at linebacker to just get a healthy one on the field.

3. Injuries. We forget how a single injury can effect a position group. When Glasgow went down Sam Hubbard became the #3 Defensive tackle for a few games.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-28-2018, 04:58 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I think a part of this is Billings has suffered from the same ailment that affects the rest of the defense - poor coaching.

Marvin neutered this defense from the start with his selection of Austin. You can't run a defense and say ok boys go out there and line up in base 4-3 zone and just roll with the punches, play soft, play back.

We've had little to no innovation, stunting, blitzing, disguising, at all. MJ has been in at RDE way to much even before the injuries and that hurts every other player down the line when the opposing offense knows there's a weak link on the field.

Geno and Carlos have likewise suffered.

Yeah, when you play so vanilla it just sets your Defense up for a disappointing season.

Have to be aggressive some of the time out there, to hardly ever stunt, blitz or use disguises won't get it done.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-28-2018, 03:22 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Please include tackles for loss, pressures, forced fumbles, tipped balls etc if we are going there.

Believe it was Jakeypoo that provided these the last time i saw it. Didn't think Billings was having that good
of a year but he actually isn't bad. Still really young too with upside.

Really, if you value PFF...all of our tackles outside of Geno grade out low 70's.

Billings will be like other players on the Bengals and have a career year in his contract year after doing little...sign a large contract...then regress to the mean.

[Jojo the Circus Boy]

(12-27-2018, 06:43 PM)impactplaya Wrote: also consider you have to make 3rd down a very hard down to convert distance wise.
how many 3rd and 7's and up did Cincy actually have to make a offense convert...
3rd and 7 and less is really easy to convert.
find a RB or TE on a LB like Nickerson...poof..the chains are moving

Not to mention how many 3rd and 7s do we see the CBs line up 10 yards off the ball? Easy pitch and catch. Every time I see it I have another mini stroke

[Destro]

When I see how much QBs just drop back, survey and pass against this defense it drives me nuts. ( Flip side is Dalton is met by defenders during his drop back ). The missed tackles are just as maddening. Someone else mentioned before, no balls!

[lone bengal]

- The linebackers are terrible even when all healthy
-The defensive line was supposed to be the strength of the team and it was bad even when Lawson was healthy, plus he can't help in stopping the run he's a pass rusher only.
- 3 first round corners and they have zero picks between them which is embarrassing
- Zero creativity on defense

[THE PISTONS]

(12-29-2018, 12:38 AM)lone bengal Wrote: - The linebackers are terrible even when all healthy
-The defense line was supposed to be the strength of the team and it was bad even when Lawson was healthy, plus he can't help in stopping the run he's a pass rusher only.
- 3 first round corners and they have zero picks between them which is embarrassing
- Zero creativity on defense

This looks like something I would have written!

The lack of interceptions by the CB's is pretty amazing.

[lone bengal]

THE PISTONS Wrote:This looks like something I would have written!

The lack of interceptions by the CB's is pretty amazing.

Bates has some decent ball skills at safety, but watching the rest of the secondary try to make a play on the football is brutal. If I had to guess I would say we have dropped at least 10 ints this season ?

[THE PISTONS]

(12-29-2018, 12:51 AM)lone bengal Wrote: Bates has some decent ball skills at safety, but watching the rest of the secondary try to make a play on the football is brutal. If I had to guess I would say we have dropped at least 10 ints this season ?

Maybe more.

The sad thing is...IF the coaching stays the same, Bates will likely regress. We've seen that happen a lot.

I'd say that Bates was the surprise of the draft though. He was supposedly good against the pass but a poor tackler. I'd say he was pretty good in both areas.

Safety is one position where I think we're ok. (Yeah people complain about Williams, but he's adequate minus some missed tackles here and there.)