I expect the coaching changes to give Dalton a new lease on his Bengals life

[TrevBengal]

(01-13-2019, 04:40 PM)TrevBengal Wrote: Daltons Passer Rating Ranks, by season, amongst qualified QBs

18th/32 in 2017 - Bottom 50%

26th/32 in 2018 - Bottom 50%

15th/30 in 2016 (Only 30 QBs qualified) - Exactly 50%

2nd/32 in 2015 - Top 50%

25th/32 in 2014 - Bottom 50%

15th/32 in 2013 - Top 50%

13th/32 in 2012 - Top 50%

20th/32 in 2011 - Bottom 50%


5 Seasons out of 8 he has been league average or worse


Facts

Game. Set. Match

[*Synric*]

(01-13-2019, 06:51 PM)TrevBengal Wrote: Game. Set. Match

If passer rating was the end all of QB stats and Dalton finished 27th? Why did PFF rank him the 12th best QB on the season?

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-final-list-of-pffs-highest-graded-quarterbacks-in-the-nfl-in-2018

Through 9 weeks Dalton was top 10 (9th).

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-ranking-all-32-starting-nfl-quarterbacks-after-week-9

[fredtoast]

Here we are at the same point we reach in every Dalton debate.

Dalton is not an elite QB, but he is not a bad QB either.  The question is  "How hard is it to find an elite QB, and do we have to have an elite QB to win a championship?"  The fact is that it is so difficult to find an elite QB that most teams in the NFL build around a good one when they can.  Dalton is good enough to build around.  QBs as good as Dalton aren't that easy to find.  We certainly are not going to spend the money needed to sign a free agent QB better than Dalton, and as I have pointed out before only 5 of the 25 QBs taken in the first round since 2011 have a career passer rating better than Dalton.

It is easy to squeal about how Dalton is just "average" or "mediocre", but it is much harder to address the problem in the real world and say exactly where we are going to get a clear upgrade. Since we got Dalton in 2011 eleven of the 25 QBs taken in the first round have a passer rating in the 60's or 70's.  

While Marvin was our head coach Jake Delhomme, Matt Hasselbach, Rex Grossman, Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, Colin Kaepernick, and Nick Foles have all taken teams to the Super Bowl.  None of those QBs are significantly better than Dalton.

So it isn't just about Dalton being "average".  It is about the ability to find a better QB at a price we can afford.

[fredtoast]

(01-13-2019, 06:51 PM)TrevBengal Wrote: Game. Set. Match

Those numbers show that Dalton is in the top half of starting QBs half the time.  That seems to prove that he should be rated in the top half of the league.  That is not great, but you don't just toss away a guy who is among the top half of the QBs in the league unless you have a proven upgrade to replace him.

If we get rid of Dalton then who do we replace him with?  Drafting a QB is a crap shoot.  You don't take that gamble unless your QB is among the worst in the league.

[Joelist]

(01-13-2019, 07:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Here we are at the same point we reach in every Dalton debate.

Dalton is not an elite QB, but he is not a bad QB either.  The question is  "How hard is it to find an elite QB, and do we have to have an elite QB to win a championship?"  The fact is that it is so difficult to find an elite QB that most teams in the NFL build around a good one when they can.  Dalton is good enough to build around.  QBs as good as Dalton aren't that easy to find.  We certainly are not going to spend the money needed to sign a free agent QB better than Dalton, and as I have pointed out before only 5 of the 25 QBs taken in the first round since 2011 have a career passer rating better than Dalton.

It is easy to squeal about how Dalton is just "average" or "mediocre", but it is much harder to address the problem in the real world and say exactly where we are going to get a clear upgrade. Since we got Dalton in 2011 eleven of the 25 QBs taken in the first round have a passer rating in the 6-'s or 70's.  Only 5 of the 25 have a passer rating higher than Dalton.

While Marvin was our head coach Jake Delhomme, Matt Hasselbach, Rex Grossman, Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, Colin Kaepernick, and Nick Foles have all taken teams to the Super Bowl.  None of those QBs are significantly better than Dalton.

So it isn't just about Dalton being "average".  It is about the ability to find a better QB at a price we can afford.

Hi!

One, there is good reason to believe we are dealing with a poster who lives under bridges here (not you Fred, the OP).

Two, anyone so utterly fixated on one player and ignoring the other issues (blocking, scheme, play calling and basic route running among others) shows their lack of football knowledge. The fact that we showed the same issues (coming out flat in big games, lack of preparedness, general lack of discipline) with multiple QBs and multiple other players and even coordinators shows the issue is higher up the totem pole. It is team culture and team psyche and that is a big reason I am glad we seem to be going for a fresh coaching staff. 

[Circleville Guy]

Every year with this topic and Andy is the same guy that he’s always been. He’s never gonna be elite and he’s far from trash or backup material. Every year there are 10-15 better NFL quarterbacks, you better nail a sure fire elite quarterback if you expect to improve on Andy. If you had that elite quarterback the last couple of years, it wouldn’t have mattered. No guy is doing much better until that horrible line improves drastically. I was told on here that this new OLine coach would be an immediate and dramatic upgrade. Obviously, the talent is very bad. They need 3-4 new OLine players just to give any quarterback legitimate time to perform.... a legitimate chance to see what any quarterback is even capable of.

[*bfine32*]

It's refreshing to see more and more fans accepting the fact that Andy is an average NFL starting QB. There's a reason the "Dalton line" was coined years ago when many thought it was an insult.

If you have a QB better than Andy you keep him and build around him

If you have a QB worse than Andy you look for a replacement

If your QB is Andy Dalton you..............

Personally I look to draft a replacement/competition early in this years draft. If Pittsburgh can bring in a 3rd rounder while still having Big Ben we would be shooting ourselves in the foot for not doing the same. I would look for the best value QB in the first 3 rounds of the draft and pull the trigger,

[fredtoast]

(01-13-2019, 08:01 PM)bfine32 Wrote:  If Pittsburgh can bring in a 3rd rounder while still having Big Ben we would be shooting ourselves in the foot for not doing the same.

Roethlisberger is 5 and a half years older than Dalton.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(01-13-2019, 08:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Roethlisberger is 5 and a half years older than Dalton.

...and in worse physical condition. A defensive player could receive a horse collar penalty by grabbing onto Ben’s neck fat.

[HarleyDog]

(01-13-2019, 08:25 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: ...and in worse physical condition. A defensive player could receive a horse collar penalty by grabbing onto Ben’s neck fat.

[*bfine32*]

(01-13-2019, 08:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Roethlisberger is 5 and a half years older than Dalton.

and maybe just a tick better

and NE has done it with Brady for years. He too may be just a smidgen better than Andy

[Quantum Bengal]

(01-12-2019, 02:06 AM)BengalChris Wrote: I pretty much expect the new coaches to want to fix the OL and LBers as their top priorities, plus our best TEs are all free agents or injured or both. While AJ is getting older, Mixon is entering his prime, as is Boyd. If they can fix John Ross there will be enough weapons to win in the playoffs this year.

I believe they'll give Dalton this next year to make the jump to contending. If he does, then great. If he doesn't, then they'll have fixed some key issues which have been holding this team down and we can snag a QB in the 2020 draft.

Now, of course, that is assuming the front office doesn't drive some key guys away, but as Mike Brown is fading into the background the days of sloppy GMing could be coming to an end.

I think we are a year late getting a QB.  We need to draft someone early this year.....He can sit behind Dalton.

We shouldn't be counting on drafting so early next year.....even this year at 11 will be hard to get a QB

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-13-2019, 02:25 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: There won't be many hands ! In fact I doubt Taylor is even going to last a lot longer as a backup ?

I’d take him as a backup in a heartbeat. He’s a hell of a lot better than Jeff Driskel.

[BengalChris]

(01-13-2019, 04:40 PM)TrevBengal Wrote: Daltons Passer Rating Ranks, by season, amongst qualified QBs

18th/32 in 2017 - Bottom 50%

26th/32 in 2018 - Bottom 50%

15th/30 in 2016 (Only 30 QBs qualified) - Exactly 50%

2nd/32 in 2015 - Top 50%

25th/32 in 2014 - Bottom 50%

15th/32 in 2013 - Top 50%

13th/32 in 2012 - Top 50%

20th/32 in 2011 - Bottom 50%


5 Seasons out of 8 he has been league average or worse


Facts

I think you are being generous. 15th out of 32 is above the half way mark, but it's right in that average band, so is 13th. Only 1 year was in the top 35%.

[McC]

(01-13-2019, 09:20 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’d take him as a backup in a heartbeat. He’s a hell of a lot better than Jeff Driskel.

That's like saying being shot in the head is a hell of a lot better than being run over by a bus.  Either way, you're ******.

[TrevBengal]

New coaches aren’t going to fix Andy’s poor pocket awareness

They aren’t gonna fix his below avg nfl arm strength

They aren’t going to fix his panicked decision making

And they aren’t gonna fix not being able to progress through options, and his constant locking into only one Pass Catcher upon drop back

[The Real Deal]

(01-13-2019, 09:52 PM)TrevBengal Wrote: New coaches aren’t going to fix Andy’s poor pocket awareness

They aren’t gonna fix his below avg nfl arm strength

They aren’t going to fix his panicked decision making

And they aren’t gonna fix not being able to progress through options, and his constant locking into only one Pass Catcher upon drop back

Actually if these are your perceived issues with Dalton, 3 out of 4 could definitely be fixed with better coaching. And the 4th could arguably be helped as well.

Game. Set. Match.

(Also, quoting yourself shows one of two things. 1. You’re douchey or 2.you have two names and quoted yourself from the wrong username.)

I’ll go with 1 and 2.

[TrevBengal]

(01-13-2019, 10:03 PM)The Real Deal Wrote: Actually if these are your perceived issues with Dalton, 3 out of 4 could definitely be fixed with better coaching. And the 4th could arguably be helped as well.

Game. Set. Match.

(Also, quoting yourself shows one of two things. 1. You’re douchey or 2.you have two names and quoted yourself from the wrong username.)

I’ll go with 1 and 2.

Yep. 8 year vets generally really start excelling and gain new skills sets in year 9. I’m sure all of Andy’s prior coaches have held him
Back.

[Joelist]

(01-13-2019, 10:03 PM)The Real Deal Wrote: Actually if these are your perceived issues with Dalton, 3 out of 4 could definitely be fixed with better coaching. And the 4th could arguably be helped as well.

Game. Set. Match.

(Also, quoting yourself shows one of two things. 1. You’re douchey or 2.you have two names and quoted yourself from the wrong username.)

I’ll go with 1 and 2.

The issues are also fictional. Andy is regarded (and coaches not on the Bengals have spoken of this before) as having good pocket awareness and no arm strength issues. The "panic" issue is also fictional. 

We are dealing with either or both of a troll and/or a sockpuppet - one wishes the mods would act on this as the spamming is getting annoying. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-13-2019, 09:41 PM)McC Wrote: That's like saying being shot in the head is a hell of a lot better than being run over by a bus.  Either way, you're ******.

Taylor is perfectly serviceable QB. Nothing special, but he’s not going to lose you games. Perfect backup.