I expect the coaching changes to give Dalton a new lease on his Bengals life

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-14-2019, 12:25 PM)The Real Deal Wrote: Fair enough as I’m becoming impatient as well. It’s the reason I’m ready to move on. But I’m still going to hold out hope Taylor can find a little bit of 2015 in Andy. I’m also aware that we can’t hold onto that year forever so if it’s goimg to happen it has to start this upcoming season.

I think we will see marked improvement this season, I really do.  Having said that, I would be looking for the replacement next season, or the season after next.  There are some really good prospects coming up.

I wouldn't be opposed to the kid out of Duke in the middle rounds this season either.  No way I'm going in the first round for any of these guys.  I mean, one is only 3 inches taller than my wife!

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-14-2019, 12:20 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: ......who weren't exactly an offensive juggernaut, were they?  Marvin is gone.  We will now see if we have been drafting, signing, and trading for an entire team of choke artists, or if it was piss poor coaching, preparation, and adjustments.

Foster was a pretty damn good RB. We did give up a lot on the ground, but holding a playoff team to 19 points on the road ain’t bad.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-14-2019, 12:57 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Foster was a pretty damn good RB. We did give up a lot on the ground,  but holding a playoff team to 19 points on the road ain’t bad.

Was that the year that Joseph had the pick 6?  I can't remember.  

I recall one game against them, the d looked pretty good.  The other, not so much.  The latter was the year Rey M couldn't cover Owen Daniel to save his life.  By the end of the game, they put Dan Skuta on him....and....GASP!...he actually stopped him.  Who would have thought making an adjustment would work?!?!?!?!?

This is my hope for the entire team, a damn staff that can adjust and improvise.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-14-2019, 01:06 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Was that the year that Joseph had the pick 6?  I can't remember.  

I recall one game against them, the d looked pretty good.  The other, not so much.  The latter was the year Rey M couldn't cover Owen Daniel to save his life.  By the end of the game, they put Dan Skuta on him....and....GASP!...he actually stopped him.  Who would have thought making an adjustment would work?!?!?!?!?

This is my hope for the entire team, a damn staff that can adjust and improvise.

I was watching highlights of the Rams game this morning and they were talking about how anyone call call some good plays (Lazor) but coaches like McVay beat you with their in-game adjustments. Let’s hope Taylor learned well...

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-14-2019, 01:12 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I was watching highlights of the Rams game this morning and they were talking about how anyone call call some good plays (Lazor) but coaches like McVay beat you with their in-game adjustments. Let’s hope Taylor learned well...

Yes sir.  Game prep is another big one.....like when the Chargers decided to go with 7 DBs against Baltimore to shut them down.  

From my perspective....this team has operated under the premise that it will stick to the plan, regardless.  You must execute.  That's fine, as long as the opponent can't counter that plan.  As is the case with most playoff caliber teams, they can counter that.  To me, that's why this team always faltered.  Too much rigidity.  Look at the example I mentioned.  Why wasn't Maualuga pulled earlier?  When something obviously isn't working, you gotta try SOMETHING FFS!

[*Synric*]

Where was the screen game this season?

They were one of the worst HB screen teams in the league with Joe Mixon and Giovani Bernard. AJ and Boyd are both very good with the ball in their hands and John Ross is blazing fast but they rarely ran any WR screens.

Bengals don't just need an offensive tackle they need better blocking Tight Ends.

[THE PISTONS]

(01-14-2019, 01:22 PM)Wyche Wrote: Yes sir.  Game prep is another big one.....like when the Chargers decided to go with 7 DBs against Baltimore to shut them down.  

From my perspective....this team has operated under the premise that it will stick to the plan, regardless.  You must execute.  That's fine, as long as the opponent can't counter that plan.  As is the case with most playoff caliber teams, they can counter that.  To me, that's why this team always faltered.  Too much rigidity.  Look at the example I mentioned.  Why wasn't Maualuga pulled earlier?  When something obviously isn't working, you gotta try SOMETHING FFS!

You see that in the playoffs...mainly coaching is what wins. If a team has a weakness...the good coaches just pick it apart over and over and over in the playoffs.

During the regular season, you don't see that level of game prep as much.

[McC]

(01-14-2019, 01:06 PM)Wyche Wrote: Was that the year that Joseph had the pick 6?  I can't remember.  

I recall one game against them, the d looked pretty good.  The other, not so much.  The latter was the year Rey M couldn't cover Owen Daniel to save his life.  By the end of the game, they put Dan Skuta on him....and....GASP!...he actually stopped him.  Who would have thought making an adjustment would work?!?!?!?!?

This is my hope for the entire team, a damn staff that can adjust and improvise.

This is what I'm looking for too, a staff with answers, Plan B, C, D if necessary.  A good staff should know, if they do this, then we do this.  Be ready for pretty much everything they can throw at us

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-14-2019, 01:27 PM)Synric Wrote: Where was the screen game this season?

They were one of the worst HB screen teams in the league with Joe Mixon and Giovani Bernard. AJ and Boyd are both very good with the ball in their hands and John Ross is blazing fast but they rarely ran any WR screens.

Bengals don't just need an offensive tackle they need better blocking Tight Ends.

No doubt.....we went from a team that ran it quite a bit in recent years to nonexistent.  When screens were called, it was so obvious, it was blown up.

[BengalChris]

(01-14-2019, 01:06 PM)Wyche Wrote: Was that the year that Joseph had the pick 6?  I can't remember.  

I recall one game against them, the d looked pretty good.  The other, not so much.  The latter was the year Rey M couldn't cover Owen Daniel to save his life.  By the end of the game, they put Dan Skuta on him....and....GASP!...he actually stopped him.  Who would have thought making an adjustment would work?!?!?!?!?

This is my hope for the entire team, a damn staff that can adjust and improvise.

Yes it was. Sadly, our offense only scored 2 FGs and failed to convert on every 3rd down opportunity. They were like 0 for 8 or something on 3rd down. The poor defense was hung out to dry.

[*PhilHos*]

(01-14-2019, 01:06 PM)Wyche Wrote: This is my hope for the entire team, a damn staff that can adjust and improvise.

Dear Lord, please answer our prayers. Amen. (And women too)

:andy:

[*bfine32*]

(01-14-2019, 12:00 PM)Wyche Wrote: How's Derek Carr panning out these days?

He's actually doing pretty great. Just cam off a year with a passer average of over 93 in a season where he was sacked 51 times and the team traded away his best WR. 

The kid's had a passer rating over 90 in 3 of his 5 seasons while playing on some absolutely terrible teams. 

[whodey4life84]

(01-12-2019, 07:15 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: So you are saying we should use our 1st round pick on a QB this year and not O-line or Linebacker?

I mean, aren't these the holes we have on this team?

Two things can be true at once grasshopper. Yes I think we should spend a 1st round pick on Drew Lock and yes, I agree that LB and O-Line are the biggest holes on the team. I personally think we should move Dalton this offseason to the highest bidder. This is personally what I would do if I were in charge of the Bengals this offseason. Im not 100% sure of the exact numbers but if I recall we will have roughly 50 million to spend this offseason.

The first thing I would do is trade Andy Dalton. I would take the best offer. I personally dont think we would have any issue of getting a first round pick. Dalton would be perfect for a team like the Jaguars who have talent everywhere but at the quarterback position and I am sure they would give a first rounder for him. Dalton would immediately make them super bowl contenders again. We on the other hand arent stacked everywhere and could use the cap space of trading Dalton. Also keep in mind, I am not saying Dalton isnt a good QB. I think he is a good QB. I also think Alex Smith was a good QB but if you have the chance to get a QB whos physical talents can get you to the next level, you have to take it. We know what Dalton is, a QB who can perform well when surrounded with good talent and a good defense.

Having Traded Dalton, we would get the 7th pick in the draft. I personally believe that would be a perfect spot to draft Drew Lock or it wouldnt cost a ton of ammo to move up a spot or two to nab him. Keep in mind we still have our own 11th pick.  With our 11th pick I would select Devin White, the LB from LSU. Drafting Devin finally ends the neglect during Marvins tenure to drafting talented LBs. White would inject some much needed talent into the LB core but wouldnt completely solve it.

With our second round pick I would draft Elgton Jenkins at Center from Miiss. St. and I would move Billy Price to RG, his more natural and dominate position. RG imo was our biggest weakness and Price would immediately turn it into a position of strenth leaving only RT to address.

With our 3rd round pick I would draft Vosean Joseph a LB out of Florida. (Keep in mind that this is if we stick with a 4-3 as we have no idea who and what scheme we will be running next season.)  This is the last draft pick I will simulate as anything beyond that (and honestly before that) is just a crap shoot.

In Free agency I would make it a priority to sign Eifert to a heavy incentive laden deal. I would also make sure we lock up Dennard and Kroft for a few more years. Remember we cleared around 20 million trading Dalton away so now we have plenty of cap space. I would go all in on Jawaun James from the Dolphins at RT as our priority outside FA signing. Jawaun James would solidify our O-Line and honestly IMO could possibly make it top 5 consideration.

We have money to bring in a few other not as big of name FA's plus 4 more rounds of draft picks that I didnt project that we could bring in for depth at TE/OL/ Secondary/LB/DL or even competition at Kicker. Honestly, getting rid of Dalton's salary would give us the room to go out and bring in another starter along the D-Line. There are options at DE and DT that would be an upgrade over what we currently have.

I know the prospect of the unknown is scary but look at alot of these young teams that are having success. They have a young QB on a rookie contract and use the money elsewhere to stack the rest of the team. If we made these moves or similar moves to what Im saying, I think we could turn this team around and immediately and have a very competitive and exciting team to root for next year.

[*bfine32*]

(01-14-2019, 01:06 PM)Wyche Wrote: Was that the year that Joseph had the pick 6?  I can't remember.  

I recall one game against them, the d looked pretty good.  The other, not so much.  The latter was the year Rey M couldn't cover Owen Daniel to save his life.  By the end of the game, they put Dan Skuta on him....and....GASP!...he actually stopped him.  Who would have thought making an adjustment would work?!?!?!?!?

This is my hope for the entire team, a damn staff that can adjust and improvise.

(01-14-2019, 02:09 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Yes it was. Sadly, our offense only scored 2 FGs and failed to convert on every 3rd down opportunity. They were like 0 for 8 or something on 3rd down. The poor defense was hung out to dry.

You guys might be misremembering. JJo had an INT for HOU that game, but it wasn't a pick 6. Leon Hall had a pick 6 for us. 

[TrevBengal]

In 5 of Daltons 8 NFL seasons, he has been ranked exactly 50% or lower amongst qualifying QBs.

63% of this seasons, he is league avg or worse

In 3 of the seasons, he has been better than league average.


The fact that we are entering year 9 with this mediocre option, and hanging hope on a 'New lease' for him is hilarious.


Cincy (Reds and Bengals) fans love to embrace mediocrity. I guess that is what happens when you havent won in 3 decades

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-14-2019, 03:28 PM)whodey4life84 Wrote: Two things can be true at once grasshopper. Yes I think we should spend a 1st round pick on Drew Lock and yes, I agree that LB and O-Line are the biggest holes on the team. I personally think we should move Dalton this offseason to the highest bidder. This is personally what I would do if I were in charge of the Bengals this offseason. Im not 100% sure of the exact numbers but if I recall we will have roughly 50 million to spend this offseason.

The first thing I would do is trade Andy Dalton. I would take the best offer. I personally dont think we would have any issue of getting a first round pick. Dalton would be perfect for a team like the Jaguars who have talent everywhere but at the quarterback position and I am sure they would give a first rounder for him. Dalton would immediately make them super bowl contenders again. We on the other hand arent stacked everywhere and could use the cap space of trading Dalton. Also keep in mind, I am not saying Dalton isnt a good QB. I think he is a good QB. I also think Alex Smith was a good QB but if you have the chance to get a QB whos physical talents can get you to the next level, you have to take it. We know what Dalton is, a QB who can perform well when surrounded with good talent and a good defense.

Having Traded Dalton, we would get the 7th pick in the draft. I personally believe that would be a perfect spot to draft Drew Lock or it wouldnt cost a ton of ammo to move up a spot or two to nab him. Keep in mind we still have our own 11th pick.  With our 11th pick I would select Devin White, the LB from LSU. Drafting Devin finally ends the neglect during Marvins tenure to drafting talented LBs. White would inject some much needed talent into the LB core but wouldnt completely solve it.

With our second round pick I would draft Elgton Jenkins at Center from Miiss. St. and I would move Billy Price to RG, his more natural and dominate position. RG imo was our biggest weakness and Price would immediately turn it into a position of strenth leaving only RT to address.

With our 3rd round pick I would draft Vosean Joseph a LB out of Florida. (Keep in mind that this is if we stick with a 4-3 as we have no idea who and what scheme we will be running next season.)  This is the last draft pick I will simulate as anything beyond that (and honestly before that) is just a crap shoot.

In Free agency I would make it a priority to sign Eifert to a heavy incentive laden deal. I would also make sure we lock up Dennard and Kroft for a few more years. Remember we cleared around 20 million trading Dalton away so now we have plenty of cap space. I would go all in on Jawaun James from the Dolphins at RT as our priority outside FA signing. Jawaun James would solidify our O-Line and honestly IMO could possibly make it top 5 consideration.

We have money to bring in a few other not as big of name FA's plus 4 more rounds of draft picks that I didnt project that we could bring in for depth at TE/OL/ Secondary/LB/DL or even competition at Kicker. Honestly, getting rid of Dalton's salary would give us the room to go out and bring in another starter along the D-Line. There are options at DE and DT that would be an upgrade over what we currently have.

I know the prospect of the unknown is scary but look at alot of these young teams that are having success. They have a young QB on a rookie contract and use the money elsewhere to stack the rest of the team. If we made these moves or similar moves to what Im saying, I think we could turn this team around and immediately and have a very competitive and exciting team to root for next year.

If you can get a high 1st this season for Dalton, absolutely.

[McC]

Anyway....to get back to the OP...

I think Andy, or whoever the QB ends up being, will be much better off. The thing you see with these new age offenses is how much more QB friendly they are. You watch these offenses and are struck by how many times the QB is hitting wide open receivers who were schemed open, which is a luxury we haven't seen nearly enough of here lately.

If you can fool defenses, then you're not relying on as much beating your man to get open.

Andy has proven he can be a top ten QB under the right circumstances(2015), so we ought to be able to at least get another year out of him. And if the new coach wants a new guy, then hopefully, he won't be shackled by outdated or overly predictable schemes.

[*bfine32*]

(01-14-2019, 03:28 PM)whodey4life84 Wrote: Two things can be true at once grasshopper. Yes I think we should spend a 1st round pick on Drew Lock and yes, I agree that LB and O-Line are the biggest holes on the team. I personally think we should move Dalton this offseason to the highest bidder. This is personally what I would do if I were in charge of the Bengals this offseason. Im not 100% sure of the exact numbers but if I recall we will have roughly 50 million to spend this offseason.

The first thing I would do is trade Andy Dalton. I would take the best offer. I personally dont think we would have any issue of getting a first round pick. Dalton would be perfect for a team like the Jaguars who have talent everywhere but at the quarterback position and I am sure they would give a first rounder for him. Dalton would immediately make them super bowl contenders again. We on the other hand arent stacked everywhere and could use the cap space of trading Dalton. Also keep in mind, I am not saying Dalton isnt a good QB. I think he is a good QB. I also think Alex Smith was a good QB but if you have the chance to get a QB whos physical talents can get you to the next level, you have to take it. We know what Dalton is, a QB who can perform well when surrounded with good talent and a good defense.

Having Traded Dalton, we would get the 7th pick in the draft. I personally believe that would be a perfect spot to draft Drew Lock or it wouldnt cost a ton of ammo to move up a spot or two to nab him. Keep in mind we still have our own 11th pick.  With our 11th pick I would select Devin White, the LB from LSU. Drafting Devin finally ends the neglect during Marvins tenure to drafting talented LBs. White would inject some much needed talent into the LB core but wouldnt completely solve it.

With our second round pick I would draft Elgton Jenkins at Center from Miiss. St. and I would move Billy Price to RG, his more natural and dominate position. RG imo was our biggest weakness and Price would immediately turn it into a position of strenth leaving only RT to address.

With our 3rd round pick I would draft Vosean Joseph a LB out of Florida. (Keep in mind that this is if we stick with a 4-3 as we have no idea who and what scheme we will be running next season.)  This is the last draft pick I will simulate as anything beyond that (and honestly before that) is just a crap shoot.

In Free agency I would make it a priority to sign Eifert to a heavy incentive laden deal. I would also make sure we lock up Dennard and Kroft for a few more years. Remember we cleared around 20 million trading Dalton away so now we have plenty of cap space. I would go all in on Jawaun James from the Dolphins at RT as our priority outside FA signing. Jawaun James would solidify our O-Line and honestly IMO could possibly make it top 5 consideration.

We have money to bring in a few other not as big of name FA's plus 4 more rounds of draft picks that I didnt project that we could bring in for depth at TE/OL/ Secondary/LB/DL or even competition at Kicker. Honestly, getting rid of Dalton's salary would give us the room to go out and bring in another starter along the D-Line. There are options at DE and DT that would be an upgrade over what we currently have.

I know the prospect of the unknown is scary but look at alot of these young teams that are having success. They have a young QB on a rookie contract and use the money elsewhere to stack the rest of the team. If we made these moves or similar moves to what Im saying, I think we could turn this team around and immediately and have a very competitive and exciting team to root for next year.

I would hate to trade Andy before the draft; although, I am on board with going QB early. Going into the draft with Jeff Driskel as your #1 is putting too many eggs in one basket. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-14-2019, 03:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: He's actually doing pretty great. Just cam off a year with a passer average of over 93 in a season where he was sacked 51 times and the team traded away his best WR. 

The kid's had a passer rating over 90 in 3 of his 5 seasons while playing on some absolutely terrible teams. 

Raider fans would beg to differ......and maybe even his HC.

(01-14-2019, 03:33 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You guys might be misremembering. JJo had an INT for HOU that game, but it wasn't a pick 6. Leon Hall had a pick 6 for us. 

That's right.  Joseph was already gone.  Good catch.

[McC]

(01-14-2019, 03:41 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I would hate to trade Andy before the draft; although, I am on board with going QB early. Going into the draft with Jeff Driskel as your #1 is putting too many eggs in one basket. 

Agreed.  And hell, that ain't even a basket.  That's a bucket with a big hole in the bottom.  I shudder to think of that scenario.