I expect the coaching changes to give Dalton a new lease on his Bengals life

[*Nately120*]

I haven't looked at the 18 pages of this monster thread, but I expect Dalton to be a lame duck here the second the new HC shows up...and if we don't make the playoffs in year one with the new HC that'll be the one-two punch that sends Dalton out the door.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-18-2019, 01:22 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I haven't looked at the 18 pages of this monster thread, but I expect Dalton to be a lame duck here the second the new HC shows up...and if we don't make the playoffs in year one with the new HC that'll be the one-two punch that sends Dalton out the door.

Maybe, but what if this guy comes in and does exactly as the OP suggests, and we see a playoff run?  It worked for Jared Goff, it's not out of the realm of possibility it works here.  Marvin was a boat anchor of offensive innovation.

[*Nately120*]

(01-18-2019, 01:38 PM)Wyche Wrote: Maybe, but what if this guy comes in and does exactly as the OP suggests, and we see a playoff run?  It worked for Jared Goff, it's not out of the realm of possibility it works here.  Marvin was a boat anchor of offensive innovation.

Jared Goff was a #1 overall pick who was on his 2nd year as a QB when McVay came in.  Again, I'm not saying we should ditch Dalton and I'm not defending Marvin, but we aren't exactly LA East the second we take one of their coaches. We aren't as "all in" on the young offensive HC trend as we think we are unless we have a QB on a rookie deal and start trading for and signing some decent sized contracts for outside players.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-18-2019, 01:46 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Jared Goff was a #1 overall pick who was on his 2nd year as a QB when McVay came in.  Again, I'm not saying we should ditch Dalton and I'm not defending Marvin, but we aren't exactly LA East the second we take one of their coaches.

Oh, I get it, and I'm not defending anyone......but Goff looked like a colossal bust under Jeff Fischer.

[*Nately120*]

(01-18-2019, 01:47 PM)Wyche Wrote: Oh, I get it, and I'm not defending anyone......but Goff looked like a colossal bust under Jeff Fischer.

He sure did, and I used the Jeff Fisher defense to argue that we should ditch Marvin before we are 2-14 and have no QB.  With that being said, I'm hyped about the changes and new-look Bengals.  Still, I expect us to operate in a manner that makes us the RC Cola to LA's Coke and Philadelphia's Pepsi.  We are following the leaders, but we are doing so in a way that is less than authentic.

But hey, Marvin Lewis was like drinking Josta, so the arrow is pointing up.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-18-2019, 01:52 PM)Nately120 Wrote: He sure did, and I used the Jeff Fisher defense to argue that we should ditch Marvin before we are 2-14 and have no QB.  With that being said, I'm hyped about the changes and new-look Bengals.  Still, I expect us to operate in a manner that makes us the RC Cola to LA's Coke and Philadelphia's Pepsi.  We are following the leaders, but we are doing so in a way that is less than authentic.

But hey, Marvin Lewis was like drinking Josta, so the arrow is pointing up.

If this whiz kid comes in here and makes Andy look at least like he did in '15, then you have a really nice carrot to dangle in trade talks.  If he flops, well.....

[grampahol]

Quote:But hey, Marvin Lewis was like drinking Josta, so the arrow is pointing up

Is this your backhanded slap at the venerable Big K cola?  Who among us hasn't had to choke down a case of Big K from time to time? 

[Shake n Blake]

(01-16-2019, 07:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Your point may "still stand", but it's taking a hell of a beating.

it's telling that you bring up Dalton's best year that happened 4 years ago and hasn't come close to those numbers since; yet Carr just put up a career best season and posted a QB rating Andy have only beaten once in his live and that was about a 1/2 decade ago.

You don't get to use the old "Andy has had it rougher" and I damn sure don't expect you to admit that Carr has actually had it rougher.  Dude put up a passer rating of over 93 while getting sacked 51 times. I've been told that's impossible.

The reasons are many: upside and age being among the tops and your "point that still stands" actually works against you as Carr is now on a team friendly contract when Andy will be hitting a contract year in 2 years. 

So you think Carr has upside and potential for greater play heading into his 6th season? Isn't that something you've made fun of Andy fans for, for several years now? E.G. "I hear it's year 6 that a QB shows his true potential".

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-18-2019, 01:22 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I haven't looked at the 18 pages of this monster thread, but I expect Dalton to be a lame duck here the second the new HC shows up...and if we don't make the playoffs in year one with the new HC that'll be the one-two punch that sends Dalton out the door.

Agree, new HC's almost always want "their guy" soon after they arrive.

(01-18-2019, 01:38 PM)Wyche Wrote: Maybe, but what if this guy comes in and does exactly as the OP suggests, and we see a playoff run?  It worked for Jared Goff, it's not out of the realm of possibility it works here.  Marvin was a boat anchor of offensive innovation.

For sure ! We had Gruden, we had Hue, and they done some stuff. But I'll always believe Marvin would only let them go so far. He wouldn't step out of his comfort zone when it got down to the brass tacks.

Taylor and Co. may well unleash the Andy

[Socal Bengals fan]

(01-18-2019, 01:46 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Jared Goff was a #1 overall pick who was on his 2nd year as a QB when McVay came in.  Again, I'm not saying we should ditch Dalton and I'm not defending Marvin, but we aren't exactly LA East the second we take one of their coaches. We aren't as "all in" on the young offensive HC trend as we think we are unless we have a QB on a rookie deal and start trading for and signing some decent sized contracts for outside players.

Agree with this

[*bfine32*]

(01-18-2019, 01:22 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I haven't looked at the 18 pages of this monster thread, but I expect Dalton to be a lame duck here the second the new HC shows up...and if we don't make the playoffs in year one with the new HC that'll be the one-two punch that sends Dalton out the door.

I take the responsibility for this. I made the mistake of stating I'd trade Andy for Derek. The Army busted a spring.

[*bfine32*]

(01-18-2019, 04:31 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: So you think Carr has upside and potential for greater play heading into his 6th season? Isn't that something you've made fun of Andy fans for, for several years now? E.G. "I hear it's year 6 that a QB shows his true potential".

He has "more' upside.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-18-2019, 05:30 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I take the responsibility for this. I made the mistake of stating I'd trade Andy for Derek. The Army busted a spring.

(01-18-2019, 05:30 PM)bfine32 Wrote: He has "more' upside.

Guess i am part of the Army sometimes but on this i agree with you. I think Carr has more upside and wouldn't be against this even if he hasn't played up to his potential the last couple years. He sometimes reminds me of Rodgers with his throwing motion which is the best. Nothing against Dalton.

[CornerBlitz]

(01-18-2019, 05:37 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Guess i am part of the Army sometimes but on this i agree with you. I think Carr has more upside and wouldn't be against this even if he hasn't played up to his potential the last couple years. He sometimes reminds me of Rodgers with his throwing motion which is the best. Nothing against Dalton.

I'm not the biggest fan of Carr at this point but between the two i don't think there's any question that Carr has much more value. I'd take Carr over Dalton as well but I'm not sure if someone like Carr is the answer.  We need to draft a QB that can be a franchise QB.

[*bfine32*]

(01-18-2019, 04:31 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: So you think Carr has upside and potential for greater play heading into his 6th season? Isn't that something you've made fun of Andy fans for, for several years now? E.G. "I hear it's year 6 that a QB shows his true potential".

He has "more' upside.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-18-2019, 05:42 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: I'm not the biggest fan of Carr at this point but between the two i don't think there's any question that Carr has much more value. I'd take Carr over Dalton as well but I'm not sure if someone like Carr is the answer.  We need to draft a QB that can be a franchise QB.

Completely agree with everything you say here CornerBlitz, don't think Gruden would trade him anyways.

[McC]

(01-18-2019, 05:42 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: I'm not the biggest fan of Carr at this point but between the two i don't think there's any question that Carr has much more value. I'd take Carr over Dalton as well but I'm not sure if someone like Carr is the answer.  We need to draft a QB that can be a franchise QB.

Agree completely.  The next QB should only be a draftee, even if he isn't drafted this year.  If we're looking stopgap, just roll with the one we already have.  And win while the next guy is getting ready.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-18-2019, 06:03 PM)McC Wrote: Agree completely.  The next QB should only be a draftee, even if he isn't drafted this year.  If we're looking stopgap, just roll with the one we already have.  And win while the next guy is getting ready.

This. Right. Here.  It has nothing to do with who plays, as much as it's about the cost associated with said stopgap.  I guess Mediocre Merv's Militia is just upset their boy is FINALLY gone.

I want fresh blood at the position that is ACTUALLY an upgrade.  Draft the guy, this year, next year, Sunshine in '21, I don't care.  I just don't get the point in committing more money to the version we already have at a cheaper rate.  Orson Charles had this mysterious "upside" too......according to Hue Jackson, that is.

[Shake n Blake]

(01-18-2019, 05:30 PM)bfine32 Wrote: He has "more' upside.

...implying you think he has "upside" to play better than he's shown thus far. Heading into his 6th season. 

Not sure what else you could mean by "upside". Unless you're using your own definition.

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-18-2019, 06:03 PM)McC Wrote: Agree completely.  The next QB should only be a draftee, even if he isn't drafted this year.  If we're looking stopgap, just roll with the one we already have.  And win while the next guy is getting ready.

(01-18-2019, 06:10 PM)Wyche Wrote: This. Right. Here.  It has nothing to do with who plays, as much as it's about the cost associated with said stopgap.  I guess Mediocre Merv's Militia is just upset their boy is FINALLY gone.

I want fresh blood at the position that is ACTUALLY an upgrade.  Draft the guy, this year, next year, Sunshine in '21, I don't care.  I just don't get the point in committing more money to the version we already have at a cheaper rate.  Orson Charles had this mysterious "upside" too......according to Hue Jackson, that is.

Yep,

Why bring in a stop gap that is more or less the same thing we have now ? Why break up the chemistry Dalton has with AJ and the others ?

If we're gonna change QB's let's draft one.