I expect the coaching changes to give Dalton a new lease on his Bengals life

[*Nately120*]

(01-18-2019, 05:55 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Completely agree with everything you say here CornerBlitz, don't think Gruden would trade him anyways.

I think Gruden would trade Carr, mostly because Gruden has bent over backwards to talk about how awesome Carr is and how Carr is going to be there for a long time.  Gruden is the biggest liar in the NFL, isn't he?  

[BengalChris]

(01-18-2019, 05:30 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I take the responsibility for this. I made the mistake of stating I'd trade Andy for Derek. The Army busted a spring.

Well, trading for Carr is a better idea than trading for Tannehill as another thread has suggested.

[*bfine32*]

(01-18-2019, 10:02 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Well, trading for Carr is a better idea than trading for Tannehill as another thread has suggested.

Hell, I wouldn't trade Driskel for Tannehill. 

[BonnieBengal]

(01-12-2019, 02:06 AM)BengalChris Wrote: I pretty much expect the new coaches to want to fix the OL and LBers as their top priorities, plus our best TEs are all free agents or injured or both. While AJ is getting older, Mixon is entering his prime, as is Boyd. If they can fix John Ross there will be enough weapons to win in the playoffs this year.

I believe they'll give Dalton this next year to make the jump to contending. If he does, then great. If he doesn't, then they'll have fixed some key issues which have been holding this team down and we can snag a QB in the 2020 draft.

Now, of course, that is assuming the front office doesn't drive some key guys away, but as Mike Brown is fading into the background the days of sloppy GMing could be coming to an end.

Yes I think Dalton has a couple of more years.  This QB class appears to be weak.  I assume they will draft a QB in late rounds but every QB in this year's draft is a reach at #11.  

[fredtoast]

Just to make it clear, Carr has no more upside than Dalton.  He has played in the NFL six years and never had a season as good as Daltons best.  His passing numbers are no better. He fumbles twice as often (45 to 23), and he can't do anything with his legs (1 rushing td to Dalton's 11).  Plus we would be paying an extra $5 million over the next two years for a QB who is not as good as what we have.

And drafting a QB for the future is a waste of a pick rigth now.  We only have about a one in five chance of drafting a better player than Dalton and we have many other holes that we need to be filling with draft picks right now.  Dalton has proven he can play on a high level in the NFL.instead of throwing away a QB like that and start gambling in the draft to find another we need to just build around him.

People saying "just draft a replacement" have no idea how hard it is to find a QB as good as dalton in the draft.  Since we got him in 2011 on 5 of the 25 QBs taken in the first round have a higher passer rating and almost half (11 of 25) have passer ratings in the 60's or 70's.  And the odds get even worse the lower you go in the draft.

[*bfine32*]

(01-19-2019, 11:35 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Just to make it clear, Carr has no more upside than Dalton.  He has played in the NFL six years and never had a season as good as Daltons best.  His passing numbers are no better. He fumbles twice as often (45 to 23), and he can't do anything with his legs (1 rushing td to Dalton's 11).  Plus we would be paying an extra $5 million over the next two years for a QB who is not as good as what we have.

And drafting a QB for the future is a waste of a pick rigth now.  We only have about a one in five chance of drafting a better player than Dalton and we have many other holes that we need to be filling with draft picks right now.  Dalton has proven he can play on a high level in the NFL.instead of throwing away a QB like that and start gambling in the draft to find another we need to just build around him.

People saying "just draft a replacement" have no idea how hard it is to find a QB as good as dalton in the draft.  Since we got him in 2011 on 5 of the 25 QBs taken in the first round have a higher passer rating and almost half (11 of 25) have passer ratings in the 60's or 70's.  And the odds get even worse the lower you go in the draft.

I think folks understand you're just grasping when you point to fumbles as a downfall for a QB; yet omit the fact that one QB throws an INT once in every 38 attempts while the other does it once every 58 throws. 

Throw in the fact that Carr is an iron man, younger, and has played his career to date with far worse talent. Then many rational folks would make the trade. Some wouldn't What's Andy going to cost in 2 years? We don't know, but we do know Carr will be playing for a bargain. Despite reports that he will cost $11 Mil more per year. 

[*Synric*]

(01-19-2019, 12:03 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I think folks understand you're just grasping when you point to fumbles as a downfall for a QB; yet omit the fact that one QB throws an INT once in every 38 attempts while the other does it once every 58 throws. 

Throw in the fact that Carr is an iron man, younger, and has played his career to date with far worse talent. Then many rational folks would make the trade. Some wouldn't What's Andy going to cost in 2 years? We don't know, but we do know Carr will be playing for a bargain. Despite reports that he will cost $11 Mil more per year. 

Through week 11 (When Andy was injured) Andy was tied with Tom Brady and Patrick Mahomes for the fewest turnover worthy throws with 6 according to PFF.

[*bfine32*]

(01-19-2019, 12:20 PM)Synric Wrote: Through week 11 (When Andy was injured) Andy was tied with Tom Brady and Patrick Mahomes for the fewest turnover worthy throws with 6 according to PFF.

Cool. He still throws an INT once every 38 throws in his career; while Derek does it once every 58. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-18-2019, 10:02 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Well, trading for Carr is a better idea than trading for Tannehill as another thread has suggested.

That is definitely true.....for essentially the same money, Carr would definitely be my choice of the two.

[*jason*]

Nothing like making a lateral move in a trade for a QB to rally the fanbase...

[fredtoast]

(01-20-2019, 12:27 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Cool. He still throws an INT once every 38 throws in his career; while Derek does it once every 58. 

If they both throw 550 passes in a season that means Dalton throwns about 4 more picks, but Dalton also throws for 261 more yards and 2 more tds.

And if they both play 16 games Carr will have 9 fumbles and zero (0.2) rushing tds while Dalton will have only 5 fumbles and 2 or 3 (2.4) rushing tds.

[*Synric*]

(01-20-2019, 12:27 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Cool. He still throws an INT once every 38 throws in his career; while Derek does it once every 58. 

Which is a completely useless set of numbers because there is no context. You don't say how many are on receivers and how many are on the QB for either Quarterback.

Now I gave you a set of numbers where even though Dalton through 11 ints this year PFF says 5 of them were not Daltons fault making him one of the better QBs at protecting the ball in 2018.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-20-2019, 06:36 PM)jason Wrote: Nothing like making a lateral move in a trade for a QB to rally the fanbase...

.....for more money.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-18-2019, 09:53 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I think Gruden would trade Carr, mostly because Gruden has bent over backwards to talk about how awesome Carr is and how Carr is going to be there for a long time.  Gruden is the biggest liar in the NFL, isn't he?  

It is confusing what he is doing to the Raiders.

I take back all those times i said i wanted him for our HC.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-21-2019, 03:39 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: It is confusing what he is doing to the Raiders.

I take back all those times i said i wanted him for our HC.

I also question his moves so far but he has had success so I will give him a bit more benefit of the doubt and see what happens over the next 3 to 5 years...

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-21-2019, 07:11 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I also question his moves so far but he has had success so I will give him a bit more benefit of the doubt and see what happens over the next 3 to 5 years...

Yeah, we will see how it works out. Just don't like the moves he has made so far and i bet Raiders fans sure don't.

[Joelist]

How about we let the new HC be announced and start bringing in his people? I strongly suspect his priority 1 will be fixing the OL and 1a fixing the LB group. The team wants to come out of the gate succeeding under the new regime and the best route to that is fixing the broken OL and LB groups.

[McC]

(01-21-2019, 07:46 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, we will see how it works out. Just don't like the moves he has made so far and i bet Raiders fans sure don't.

That's the problem with the tear it all down method.  Good luck selling  it to the fans. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-21-2019, 07:54 PM)McC Wrote: That's the problem with the tear it all down method.  Good luck selling  it to the fans. 

It’s a unique situation because they’re moving to Vegas in 2020 anyway, and will basically be gaining an entirely new fan base. They’ll probably sell out the first season on excitement of having a team alone.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-21-2019, 07:52 PM)Joelist Wrote: How about we let the new HC be announced and start bringing in his people? I strongly suspect his priority 1 will be fixing the OL and 1a fixing the LB group. The team wants to come out of the gate succeeding under the new regime and the best route to that is fixing the broken OL and LB groups.

Heard something come out of Menafee's mouth yesterday after the game when Bradshaw was interviewing Suh that 3 Rams assistants got Head Coaching jobs. I don't know if this means we can announce that Taylor is our guy or not now.

Call me anxious.

(01-21-2019, 07:54 PM)McC Wrote: That's the problem with the tear it all down method.  Good luck selling  it to the fans. 

True, we are in a lot better position.

(01-21-2019, 08:04 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It’s a unique situation because they’re moving to Vegas in 2020 anyway, and will basically be gaining an entirely new fan base. They’ll probably sell out the first season on excitement of having a team alone.

Probably right and Vegas is actually pretty close to me, hope i can go to a Bengals at Raiders game in a few years.