New Coach and New Expectations

[BonnieBengal]

(01-13-2019, 10:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Just to be clear by "best players" you mean your favorites, correct?

No.  I mean best player.  Now, it appears you're all over this thread defending Marvin.  Marvin is gone.  What's the point?

[Gamma Ray Tan]

(01-13-2019, 11:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually that is exactly what we are talking about.  You guys are saying that if we don't upgrade the talent then coaching does not make any difference.

You can't blame all our losing on Marvin and then say the next coach can't improve without more talent.

I don’t think anyone blames ALL the losing on Marvin. He obviously took this franchise from horrible to slightly above average, but that is as far as it went for 16 years. You can’t coach talent, but you can motivate and prepare talent to perform at it’s peak....and that is where Marvin was lacking. Many seasons the Bengals were said to have one of the most talented rosters in the league.....0 Playoff wins. This team needs some better talent at multiple positions FIRST, then we can see just how well the new coach and staff can get it to perform. It’s a combination of BOTH.....Obviously.

[HuDey]

(01-13-2019, 10:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So clueless dumbass Marvin took over a 2-14 team that had not had a winning season in 12 years and improved 6 games to 8-8 his first year.

Now the new guy comes along and takes over a 6-10 team just three years removed from a 12-4 season and fans don't expect more than 9 wins his first year?

If Marvin was as bad as you all claim shouldn't you expect his replacement to be in the playoffs next year?

As I said, the team is not very good. No they are not going to win 9 games next year under a new staff without first improving several positions in the starting lineup.

[The Real Deal]

(01-13-2019, 10:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So clueless dumbass Marvin took over a 2-14 team that had not had a winning season in 12 years and improved 6 games to 8-8 his first year.

Now the new guy comes along and takes over a 6-10 team just three years removed from a 12-4 season and fans don't expect more than 9 wins his first year?

If Marvin was as bad as you all claim shouldn't you expect his replacement to be in the playoffs next year?

(01-14-2019, 10:27 AM)HuDey Wrote: As I said, the team is not very good. No they are not going to win 9 games next year under a new staff without first improving several positions in the starting lineup.

Marvin was OK. Not great, not terrible, just OK. While, even at 4-1, I never believed this team was Super Bowl caliber, i think the bengals were unfortunate this year. In Marvins defense, the team was snake bitten with the injury bug. Call it an excuse, call it what you want. But the reality is that by the end of the season they had 18 players on IR. 18! If they stay healthy do they get to 9 wins? I think they might have.

So here’s the deal coming into this season. If healthy, I do believe this team has the ability to get to 9 wins. Sure upgrades to many positions are needed and I’m hopeful the offseason is good to us. But if 9 wins is the benchmark, sure I think it’s doable.

That being said, there is a good chance next season isn’t much better than last. If that is the case it by no means tells us Taylor is better or worse than Marvin was. The fact of the matter is any time you bring in a completely new regime with new philosophy, scheme, verbiage, etc. you are in danger of there being some growing pains.

So I’m hopeful Zac Taylor can come in here and instantly make this team a contender, but I’m also not so naive as to believe that it could take a little time for him to fully have his plan in place, have it set up to succeed and also for the team to transition.

The odd part of all of this is that it almost feels like Fred doesn’t want Taylor’s first year to succeed just so Marvin doesn’t look so bad. If that’s the angle, I don’t get it.

[*Nately120*]

Things are going to be quite different in the area of coaching, but we will see how/if things change in our approach to other aspects of football. If Taylor is indeed our HC I can't help but feel like we go out of a long term relationship and we are hellbent on finding someone who is the polar opposite of our ex...time will tell if that's a bad idea or not, hardy har.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

It really depends on what kind of roster upgrades are made, and how drastic the changes are involving the schemes.

Let's say the LB situation is fixed, and the oline gets a new, legit piece to work with for argument's sake.

I expect no less than 9 wins to be honest.  I felt that the team was capable of that under Merv with the defense being at least average.  I see no reason to regress unless the coaching isn't what we hope it will be.  Now, I'm not being unrealistic here and thinking we'll win 12 games or more, but I feel 9 or 10 wins is a definite possibility with some roster improvement.  I think 7 or 8 wins is possible even without any roster moves whatsoever.

I expect to coach and scheme to the players, not the other way around, as Merv liked to do.  I expect a little more aggression on offense, and a lot more on defense.  I expect to play the guys that are the best game day players, not practice warriors.  In a year or two, we should be winning playoff games.

If we blow it up and start over, year 3 or 4 should be when we start winning games again.

[Luvnit2]

Some great debate the last few pages of the thread.

Some feel if ML was the issue, then the team should make great strides of 3 to 5 wins more in 2019.

Others feel the new coach should be given time (some are saying if we blow up the roster while others are saying new guy should be no better than ML record wise with same roster and additions from draft).

I ask myself, if a new coach takes over a vet team with some great pieces, a team that had a horrible injury situation in 2018, why wouldn't anyone expect huge jump from the new HC and staff in year one? My guess many expected ML to do great things with the roster and overcome the injuries???

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-14-2019, 11:39 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Some great debate the last few pages of the thread.

Some feel if ML was the issue, then the team should make great strides of 3 to 5 wins more in 2019.

Others feel the new coach should be given time (some are saying if we blow up the roster while others are saying new guy should be no better than ML record wise with same roster and additions from draft).

I ask myself, if a new coach takes over a vet team with some great pieces, a team that had a horrible injury situation in 2018, why wouldn't anyone expect huge jump from the new HC and staff in year one? My guess many expected ML to do great things with the roster and overcome the injuries???

For me, I overestimated the talent on the defense during the lead up to the season.  The LBs are WAY worse than I thought.

[BengalChris]

(01-13-2019, 11:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually that is exactly what we are talking about.  You guys are saying that if we don't upgrade the talent then coaching does not make any difference.

You can't blame all our losing on Marvin and then say the next coach can't improve without more talent.

That's your interpretation of what people mean. 

Last I remember the coaches had a lot of say in the draft.

The Mike and Merv show is over. They couldn't produce a winner.

[Luvnit2]

(01-14-2019, 02:59 PM)BengalChris Wrote: That's your interpretation of what people mean. 

Last I remember the coaches had a lot of say in the draft.

The Mike and Merv show is over. They couldn't produce a winner.

I agree they could not produce a winner.

This thread is about assuming mostly same group of players, hopefully much better injury situation and new HC and staff, what are expectations?

As far as a lot of say in the draft, I don't recall MB or Katie saying anything publicly about how much input ML or his staff had in the final say? I saw lots of speculation but never collaborated which in my eyes means rumors.

[*Nately120*]

(01-14-2019, 11:15 AM)Wyche Wrote: It really depends on what kind of roster upgrades are made, and how drastic the changes are involving the schemes.

Let's say the LB situation is fixed, and the oline gets a new, legit piece to work with for argument's sake.

I expect no less than 9 wins to be honest.  I felt that the team was capable of that under Merv with the defense being at least average.  I see no reason to regress unless the coaching isn't what we hope it will be.  Now, I'm not being unrealistic here and thinking we'll win 12 games or more, but I feel 9 or 10 wins is a definite possibility with some roster improvement.  I think 7 or 8 wins is possible even without any roster moves whatsoever.

I expect to coach and scheme to the players, not the other way around, as Merv liked to do.  I expect a little more aggression on offense, and a lot more on defense.  I expect to play the guys that are the best game day players, not practice warriors.  In a year or two, we should be winning playoff games.

If we blow it up and start over, year 3 or 4 should be when we start winning games again.

Given how much went wrong this year and my desire to shake things up, I can't help but be optimistic about 2019.  I will admit that I wanted Bieniemy though...something about taking a guy in his early 30's and jumping him way above his resume into a HC role under Mike Brown is giving me flashbacks to the Dave Shula days.

I know...I shouldn't have uttered the name of he who shant be named, but still.  

[Luvnit2]

(01-14-2019, 03:05 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Given how much went wrong this year and my desire to shake things up, I can't help but be optimistic about 2019.  I will admit that I wanted Bieniemy though...something about taking a guy in his early 30's and jumping him way above his resume into a HC role under Mike Brown is giving me flashbacks to the Dave Shula days.

I know...I shouldn't have uttered the name of he who shant be named, but still.  

In Bengal land, never is ever certain well until it is certain.

Who knows, it may be Bienemy

Funny, I just posted in another thread about Dave Shula 

[I_C_DeadPeople]

What ML did for the team early on has zero relevance to today. No different then the McCarthy discussion for the Packers.

The question was - what is he doing currently and what is the trend. And clearly this team was in need of a change. He had worn out his welcome. So whatever he did in say the first 10 years or 13 years no longer mattered. The last 3 were brutal with no sign of getting better.

The change has been made and it was the right move.

[*Nately120*]

(01-14-2019, 03:14 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: In Bengal land, never is ever certain well until it is certain.

Who knows, it may be Bienemy

Funny, I just posted in another thread about Dave Shula 

I just replied to that post.  Wacky.


I was under the impression we got word that Bienemy wasn't coming here and was staying in KC, but it's all just talk until it happens I guess.

[BengalChris]

(01-14-2019, 03:04 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I agree they could not produce a winner.

This thread is about assuming mostly same group of players, hopefully much better injury situation and new HC and staff, what are expectations?

As far as a lot of say in the draft, I don't recall MB or Katie saying anything publicly about how much input ML or his staff had in the final say? I saw lots of speculation but never collaborated which in my eyes means rumors.

I'm sure the key players will be mostly the same guys. But the team changes from year to year, there are always new players.

Marv talked a lot about the drafts and what the team saw in different players they drafted. Unless he was reading a script written by Mikey boy, Marv had a lot of say in the draft.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-14-2019, 03:05 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Given how much went wrong this year and my desire to shake things up, I can't help but be optimistic about 2019.  I will admit that I wanted Bieniemy though...something about taking a guy in his early 30's and jumping him way above his resume into a HC role under Mike Brown is giving me flashbacks to the Dave Shula days.

I know...I shouldn't have uttered the name of he who shant be named, but still.  

I also wanted Bienemy, but change was needed, and we got it.  We'll see what the kid can do, hell, McVay was 30 when he was hired, wasn't he?  There are lots of good takes on this guy and his brother, for that matter, out there from several respected and well tenured coaches.  It seems it was a matter of time before one of them took the leap.  Could it be that the Bengals are ahead of the curve for once?  WOW.....that's something to ponder!

[Sled21]

I wanted Bieniemy as well, but I don't put too much stock in the comparison between Shula and Taylor. Taylor got hired on his credentials and his interview. Shula got hired because of who his dad was.....

[The Real Deal]

Zac Taylor is in good company https://t.co/APJcMMKtre

— Nick Manchester (@NickManchester9) January 14, 2019

[*ochocincos*]

I'm giving this regime 3 years.

[XenoMorph]

(01-14-2019, 03:04 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I agree they could not produce a winner.

This thread is about assuming mostly same group of players, hopefully much better injury situation and new HC and staff, what are expectations?

As far as a lot of say in the draft, I don't recall MB or Katie saying anything publicly about how much input ML or his staff had in the final say? I saw lots of speculation but never collaborated which in my eyes means rumors.

the coaches helped with scouting and setting up the big board.