New Coach and New Expectations

[wolfkaosaun]

I'll give it about 3 years.

I expect this year to be a bridge type of year. It wouldn't surprise me if this team made a wildcard post season, nor would it surprise me if they get a top 10 pick.

I'm very interested to see the direction we're taking this offseason.
Did they bring Taylor in to coach up Dalton? Or is he going to bring in a quarterback?
And if the latter, are they going to keep Dalton as a "bridge" QB, similar to what the Chiefs did with Alex Smith to Patrick Mahomes.


It's going to be interesting to see the direction this team wants to go with Taylor in place. It's going to be interesting to see his draft strategy as well.

[McC]

(01-14-2019, 06:45 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: I'll give it about 3 years.

I expect this year to be a bridge type of year. It wouldn't surprise me if this team made a wildcard post season, nor would it surprise me if they get a top 10 pick.

I'm very interested to see the direction we're taking this offseason.
Did they bring Taylor in to coach up Dalton? Or is he going to bring in a quarterback?
And if the latter, are they going to keep Dalton as a "bridge" QB, similar to what the Chiefs did with Alex Smith to Patrick Mahomes.


It's going to be interesting to see the direction this team wants to go with Taylor in place. It's going to be interesting to see his draft strategy as well.

Will also be interesting to see how well they intend to arm him and how much control he gets.  If he wants a FA, will he get him?  If he wants to trade up and down the draft board, can he do it?  How many of his own shots does he get to call.

We've seen evidence in the releasing of coaches.  Hopefully, it's a sign of things to come and not just the one thing they allow him.

[wolfkaosaun]

(01-14-2019, 06:51 PM)McC Wrote: Will also be interesting to see how well they intend to arm him and how much control he gets.  If he wants a FA, will he get him?  If he wants to trade up and down the draft board, can he do it?  How many of his own shots does he get to call.

We've seen evidence in the releasing of coaches.  Hopefully, it's a sign of things to come and not just the one thing they allow him.

I'll say, we've seen some changes from the FO.

Not often do they fire coaches. Since 2017, they've fired four coordinators/head coaches. And that's not including other coaches like Paul Alexander. It seems that Katie , Paul, and Troy are controlling this more.

Either that, or Mike Brown is actually listening to fans.

[McC]

(01-14-2019, 07:10 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: I'll say, we've seen some changes from the FO.

Not often do they fire coaches. Since 2017, they've fired four coordinators/head coaches. And that's not including other coaches like Paul Alexander. It seems that Katie , Paul, and Troy are controlling this more.

Either that, or Mike Brown is actually listening to fans.

I'm more inclined to go with the former, since I believe in common sense in the face of all those years of status quo and most people, including me, would jump to the conclusion there has to be a new boss that ain't the same as the old boss.

But the latter is even better, since it makes one think any damn thing is possible.

Maybe it's a combination of both.

[Luvnit2]

(01-14-2019, 06:45 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: I'll give it about 3 years.

I expect this year to be a bridge type of year. It wouldn't surprise me if this team made a wildcard post season, nor would it surprise me if they get a top 10 pick.

I'm very interested to see the direction we're taking this offseason.
Did they bring Taylor in to coach up Dalton? Or is he going to bring in a quarterback?
And if the latter, are they going to keep Dalton as a "bridge" QB, similar to what the Chiefs did with Alex Smith to Patrick Mahomes.


It's going to be interesting to see the direction this team wants to go with Taylor in place. It's going to be interesting to see his draft strategy as well.

You are patient.

Will you be as patient if they keep most of the same key players and add draft picks and a couple of free agents>

Do you think they blow it up and make the bold move by trading someone like Dalton or Green?

[wolfkaosaun]

(01-14-2019, 07:16 PM)McC Wrote: I'm more inclined to go with the former, since I believe in common sense in the face of all those years of status quo and most people, including me, would jump to the conclusion there has to be a new boss that ain't the same as the old boss.

But the latter is even better, since it makes one think any damn thing is possible.

Maybe it's a combination of both.

Oh absolutely. I am hoping he changed honestly.
I always believed that Mike Brown wants to win a Super Bowl. He just wants to win HIS way, which was always his downfall.

(01-14-2019, 07:33 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: You are patient.

Will you be as patient if they keep most of the same key players and add draft picks and a couple of free agents>

Do you think they blow it up and make the bold move by trading someone like Dalton or Green?

I will. I think this year they won't blow it all up. 2020 I think will be the year we see the most change when it comes to players.

If they blow it up, they're definitely going in the top of the draft to get a QB.
But I think they'll go the route the Chiefs did with Mahomes. Draft a QB but have Dalton be the stand in for a year.
Only question is WHEN do they do it.

[Luvnit2]

(01-14-2019, 07:52 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Oh absolutely. I am hoping he changed honestly.
I always believed that Mike Brown wants to win a Super Bowl. He just wants to win HIS way, which was always his downfall.


I will. I think this year they won't blow it all up. 2020 I think will be the year we see the most change when it comes to players.

If they blow it up, they're definitely going in the top of the draft to get a QB.
But I think they'll go the route the Chiefs did with Mahomes. Draft a QB but have Dalton be the stand in for a year.
Only question is WHEN do they do it.

I vote we wait to blow it up in 2020, go 0-16 to suck for Lawrence. 

That kid is impressive on and off the field. I think he will be the next HOF QB in the next 3 drafts.. He is only a freshman and will get better in college and that is scary for Clemson opponents.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-14-2019, 07:57 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I vote we wait to blow it up in 2020, go 0-16 to suck for Lawrence. 

That kid is impressive on and off the field. I think he will be the next HOF QB in the next 3 drafts.. He is only a freshman and will get better in college and that is scary for Clemson opponents.

You're telling me!  Try being a fan of a team in their conference that is currently going through a rebuild!


He'd look DAMN good in stripes. :andy:

[fredtoast]

(01-14-2019, 03:20 PM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: What ML did for the team early on has zero relevance to today. No different then the McCarthy discussion for the Packers.

The question was - what is he doing currently and what is the trend. And clearly this team was in need of a change. He had worn out his welcome. So whatever he did in say the first 10 years or 13 years no longer mattered. The last 3 were brutal with no sign of getting better.

The change has been made and it was the right move.

But my point is that we won six games this year despite being decimated by injuries.  No matter how much you want to criticize Marvin the fact is that we were not a total garbage team this year.  10 other teams are drafting in front of us.  

So why shouldn't we expect 10-11 wins and a playoff spot next year if we have fewer key injuries?

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-15-2019, 02:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But my point is that we won six games this year despite being decimated by injuries.  No matter how much you want to criticize Marvin the fact is that we were not a total garbage team this year.  10 other teams are drafting in front of us.  

So why shouldn't we expect 10-11 wins and a playoff spot next year if we have fewer key injuries?

If they address the LB position, I see no reason for them not to win 10 or so games.  The LBers were worse than I anticipated going into the season.  Had I known how bad they were, 9 wins wouldn't have been my floor.

[fredtoast]

(01-15-2019, 02:24 PM)Wyche Wrote: If they address the LB position, I see no reason for them not to win 10 or so games.  The LBers were worse than I anticipated going into the season.  Had I known how bad they were, 9 wins wouldn't have been my floor.

This is exactly how I felt.  From the very beginning I felt a lot of people were overestimating our O-line.  Although I thought Glenn would be better than he was I still felt we would have problems with our O-line this year.

I had no clue our LBs woule be so bad.  Both Brown and Burfict were big disappointments.  I have never thought Vinny Rey was a great player, but I certainly expected him to be better than what we saw from Evans and Nickerson.  Rey only played 178 snaps on defense this year while Evans played 510 and Nickerson 538.  

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-15-2019, 02:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But my point is that we won six games this year despite being decimated by injuries.  No matter how much you want to criticize Marvin the fact is that we were not a total garbage team this year.  10 other teams are drafting in front of us.  

So why shouldn't we expect 10-11 wins and a playoff spot next year if we have fewer key injuries?

Fred we caught the Colts well before Luck got his sea legs and still had to have a defensive score to win it. The offense scored what 10 points thru 50 minutes in Miami and the world's worst defense saved our bacon with a pick 6 and scoop 6.

We ran into an interception Machine in TB and were damn lucky to win that game. Did we even score any points in the 2nd half vs. Ravens in the first one ? 3 maybe ?

Let's not act like we were kicking ass and taking names on the way to those 4 early wins.

We could so very easily have been 4-12 or 3-13 !

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-15-2019, 03:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is exactly how I felt.  From the very beginning I felt a lot of people were overestimating our O-line.  Although I thought Glenn would be better than he was I still felt we would have problems with our O-line this year.

I had no clue our LBs woule be so bad.  Both Brown and Burfict were big disappointments.  I have never thought Vinny Rey was a great player, but I certainly expected him to be better than what we saw from Evans and Nickerson.  Rey only played 178 snaps on defense this year while Evans played 510 and Nickerson 538.  

Yes, I felt the line would have its struggles but be improved.....I had no idea just how awful the middle of the defense would be.  To be fair to Brown, he played hurt almost all of the games he did play in.  Maybe he will be better if healthy if the team decides to bring him back.  Burfict was a HUGE disappointment, and I guess father time caught up to Vinnie.

[fredtoast]

(01-15-2019, 03:02 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Fred we caught the Colts well before Luck got his sea legs and still had to have a defensive score to win it. The offense scored what 10 points thru 50 minutes in Miami and the world's worst defense saved our bacon with a pick 6 and scoop 6.

We ran into an interception Machine in TB and were damn lucky to win that game. Did we even score any points in the 2nd half vs. Ravens in the first one ? 3 maybe ?

Let's not act like we were kicking ass and taking names on the way to those 4 early wins.

We could so very easily have been 4-12 or 3-13 !

Andrew luck had 319 passing yards against us.  he only had 5 other games all year where he threw for more.

I could go through the schedule of every team and make claims that they were just "lucky" to win a lot of their games.

I could also claim that the Steelers were "lucky" to beat us on a long td pass with just 10 seconds left.

[Bengalholic]

(01-15-2019, 02:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But my point is that we won six games this year despite being decimated by injuries.  No matter how much you want to criticize Marvin the fact is that we were not a total garbage team this year.  10 other teams are drafting in front of us.  

So why shouldn't we expect 10-11 wins and a playoff spot next year if we have fewer key injuries?

We have no idea what the 2018 team would've done, even if they had stayed reasonably healthy. Maybe they would've won 9-10 games, maybe they only win 7-8. We just don't know. 

As for what to expect from the new coach in his first year...there are a lot of variables that come into play. What do they do in free agency and the draft to address the weaknesses on the roster? How long does it take to implement and get comfortable with the new coach and coordinators system? Has much of a learning curve does Taylor need transitioning from a position coach with fairly limited overall experience, to running the entire show?

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(01-14-2019, 04:23 PM)BengalChris Wrote: I'm sure the key players will be mostly the same guys. But the team changes from year to year, there are always new players.

Marv talked a lot about the drafts and what the team saw in different players they drafted. Unless he was reading a script written by Mikey boy, Marv had a lot of say in the draft.

If Merv had a lot to say in the draft (and we all know he did) he was a complete failure in the LB department. His LB drafting record is worse than Dave Shula's coaching record. 

[BengalChris]

(01-15-2019, 03:14 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: We have no idea what the 2018 team would've done, even if they had stayed reasonably healthy. Maybe they would've won 9-10 games, maybe they only win 7-8. We just don't know. 

As for what to expect from the new coach in his first year...there are a lot of variables that come into play. What to they do in free agency and the draft to address the weaknesses on the roster? How long does it take to implement and get comfortable with the new coach and coordinators system? Has much of a learning curve does Taylor need transitioning from a position coach with fairly limited overall experience, to running the entire show?

I agree with this. While we did start 4-1, the team quickly got to 5-4 before the injuries started piling on. Getting blown out by KC and New Orleans show just how far away this team was from making a playoff run even when mostly healthy.

[McC]

(01-15-2019, 03:20 PM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: If Merv had a lot to say in the draft (and we all know he did) he was a complete failure in the LB department. His LB drafting record is worse than Dave Shula's coaching record. 

For a guy who played LB and then came up as a LB coach, he truly sukked at knowing what a good one looks like.  The list of LB's he drafted is appalling.

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-15-2019, 03:20 PM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: If Merv had a lot to say in the draft (and we all know he did) he was a complete failure in the LB department. His LB drafting record is worse than Dave Shula's coaching record. 

(01-15-2019, 03:37 PM)McC Wrote: For a guy who played LB and then came up as a LB coach, he truly sukked at knowing what a good one looks like.  The list of LB's he drafted is appalling.

Ain't no doubt !

[wolfkaosaun]

(01-15-2019, 03:02 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Fred we caught the Colts well before Luck got his sea legs and still had to have a defensive score to win it. The offense scored what 10 points thru 50 minutes in Miami and the world's worst defense saved our bacon with a pick 6 and scoop 6.

We ran into an interception Machine in TB and were damn lucky to win that game. Did we even score any points in the 2nd half vs. Ravens in the first one ? 3 maybe ?

Let's not act like we were kicking ass and taking names on the way to those 4 early wins.

We could so very easily have been 4-12 or 3-13 !

True. But we could have very easily been 7-3 before the first Browns game if the defense didn't collapse against the Steelers and Cody Core doesn't drop his 4th down pass against the Ravens.
Throw in the Bengals could have possibly beaten the Raiders, Broncos, Chargers, and Steelers with a healthy Andy Dalton, and we're talking about the team possibly going 11-5.

You can play the "what if" game either way.
Almost every team can do that.
Look at the Steelers: few plays away from being anywhere between 5-11 or 13-3.
Chargers could be 6-10 easily as well. Say they botch that 2 pt against the Chiefs, or those TDs don't count against the Steelers, or play the Bengals with an actual QB, or the Titans get their 2 point conversion instead of fail, or they don't intercept the 49ers at the end of the game.
Eagles as well.

Very rarely do teams "kick ass and take names" throughout an entire year. There's going to be clutch plays a team makes to edge out competition. And the Bengals did accomplish some of those moments, but also failed some as well.