$87,656,000 in Cap Space for 2019

[Daddy-O]

(01-13-2019, 03:49 PM)TrevBengal Wrote: If the entire offense plays to his level. Everyone will be about league average to poor.

I’d hate to see that

What team have you been watching?  If anything Dalton has lifted others and not the other way around.  I've seen many of his receivers drop passes at very critical times in games, many right on the money, including AJ.

If not for his quick release the OL would lead the league in QB hurries and sacks by a long shot.

You're original post and subsequent responses throughout are rather ridiculous.  It's obvious you don't know the game of football very well.

[fredtoast]

(01-14-2019, 01:16 PM)t3r3e3 Wrote: QB’s of Dalton’s caliber rarely win Super Bowls.

Hoping for incremental improvement under Van Pelt seems like a lottery ticket long shot.  

Dalton is the caliber of QB who can post a 106 passer rating for a season.  Those are the type of QBs who can win Super Bowls.

It is not a "lottery ticket longshot" when he has already proven he can play at that level.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-13-2019, 03:04 PM)TrevBengal Wrote: Once they jettison Tez, Dalton, Huber and Glenn

That's a lot of money to rebuild the team with new OL, LB and a upgrade at QB via the draft

Dee Ford
CJ Mosely
Frank Clark

Daryl Williams
JuWuan James

Sheldon Richardson

Lot of players out there this money can go to, and also extend Boyd.

Draft: QB, OG, TE, LB top needs.

This team is going to be fun to watch once we have fully flipped the mediocre re-treads

Can't wait to see what Dalton can do with a real defense and an improved offensive line.. I am thinking 12-4...

[BengalChris]

(01-16-2019, 12:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Dalton is the caliber of QB who can post a 106 passer rating for a season.  Those are the type of QBs who can win Super Bowls.

It is not a "lottery ticket longshot" when he has already proven he can play at that level.

Eeeeeeeeeee, no.

1 TD, 6 INTs, 4 FUMs, 57 passer rating and 4 loses in 4 playoff games is not proving he can win at that level. He currently holds the NFL's all-time worse playoff record for a QB at 0-4, as does Marvin Lewis for a coach at 0-7.

I'm pretty sure he'll get another shot with the Bengals in 2019 and maybe in 2020, but if that doesn't materialize his chances become very slim at making it back to the playoffs.

[yellowxdiscipline]

(01-13-2019, 03:39 PM)TrevBengal Wrote: Hopefully the new crew is forward thinking and they realize having to conform an entire nfl offense to hide the deficiencies of one player is a bad way to operate.

Please expound on his deficiencies.... And dont give me that arm strength line, because we've seen him make long pass attempts before.

[fredtoast]

(01-17-2019, 02:14 AM)BengalChris Wrote: Eeeeeeeeeee, no.

1 TD, 6 INTs, 4 FUMs, 57 passer rating and 4 loses in 4 playoff games is not proving he can win at that level. 

Except we were talking about "caliber of QB" not just his stats for four games.

In Joe Flacco's first 5 playoff games he had a lower passer rating (46.5) than Dalton's (57.8) and also threw for a lot less yards (132.0 per game) than Dalton (218.3 per game).

Dalton has proven that he can play well enough (106 rating) and beat top QBs on division champion teams (Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, Peyton Manning, Luck).  He is the caliber of QB that can win a championship.

[Joelist]

Hopefully the mods take care of the troll soon...

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-17-2019, 03:44 PM)Joelist Wrote: Hopefully the mods take care of the troll soon...

It's already been done. 

[BengalChris]

(01-17-2019, 03:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Except we were talking about "caliber of QB" not just his stats for four games.

In Joe Flacco's first 5 playoff games he had a lower passer rating (46.5) than Dalton's (57.8) and also threw for a lot less yards (132.0 per game) than Dalton (218.3 per game).

Dalton has proven that he can play well enough (106 rating) and beat top QBs on division champion teams (Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, Peyton Manning, Luck).  He is the caliber of QB that can win a championship.

Flacco wins in the playoffs (10 wins, 5 losses), Dalton doesn't (0 wins, 4 losses). One is a SB caliber QB, the other isn't. It's all about winning, everything else (passer ratings, yards, blah, blah, blah) is of much less importance.

"Just win baby!" is probably one of the most sincere statements ever made by an NFL owner. Those who do it get the glory, those who don't don't. Those who do it deserve it, those who don't don't. Can't get anymore fair than that.

 

[Joelist]

(01-17-2019, 04:01 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: It's already been done. 

Excellent! Glad they took out the trash. 

[t3r3e3]

(01-16-2019, 12:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Dalton is the caliber of QB who can post a 106 passer rating for a season.  Those are the type of QBs who can win Super Bowls.

It is not a "lottery ticket longshot" when he has already proven he can play at that level.

One almost full year out of 8. You cherry-picked, so I will as well: 0-4 Playoff record, Playoff passer rating of 57.8, 0 TD’s, 8 TO’s. His career passer rating is 88.8. Dalton is not cut from the same cloth as the QB’s who make regular Super Bowl appearances and win titles. He, and his like-skilled counterparts, are the exceptions. Given that we’ve seen about 3-5 Dalton-esque guys (Flacco, Dilfer, Williams, Hostetler, Rypien maybe) win titles in 50 or so Super Bowls, how is that not a longshot. I give you props for arguing your point Fred, but you’re out to lunch on Andy’s body of work VS his peers who win Playoff games, get to Super Bowls, and win titles.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DaltAn00.htm

[Essex Johnson]

(01-17-2019, 03:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Except we were talking about "caliber of QB" not just his stats for four games.

In Joe Flacco's first 5 playoff games he had a lower passer rating (46.5) than Dalton's (57.8) and also threw for a lot less yards (132.0 per game) than Dalton (218.3 per game).

Dalton has proven that he can play well enough (106 rating) and beat top QBs on division champion teams (Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, Peyton Manning, Luck).  He is the caliber of QB that can win a championship.

Very true... he has had numerous wins when he lead the team on a critical drive or solid play in 4th quarter.  The window is closing though to finally get that championship with Dalton but if Lewis was part of the hold back, we will find out 

[fredtoast]

(01-17-2019, 06:44 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Flacco wins in the playoffs (10 wins, 5 losses), Dalton doesn't (0 wins, 4 losses). One is a SB caliber QB, the other isn't. It's all about winning, everything else (passer ratings, yards, blah, blah, blah) is of much less importance.

"Just win baby!" is probably one of the most sincere statements ever made by an NFL owner. Those who do it get the glory, those who don't don't. Those who do it deserve it, those who don't don't. Can't get anymore fair than that.

 

Can't be more fair than saying Trent is a better QB than Dan Marino ever was.

 

The fact is that, looking forward like we are now, people don't judge a player's ability to win a championship based solely on how many championships he has already won.  Early in his career Flacco played much worse in the postseason than Dalton, but Joe had a defense and run game to win games for him.  Then despite playing poorly in the past Flacco played very well one year and won it all.  Dalton's post season numbers are even better than Boomer's in 88, but because Boomer had the number one rushing game in the league he made it to the Super Bowl and is worshipped as a "winner".

No one can ever win the big game until he does.  Ken Anderson had zero playoff wins through the first 9 seasons of his career.  Based on your logic it was impossible for him to take us to the Super Bowl.  I lived in Denver in the early 90's.  Back then it was impossible for Elway to win a Super Bowl.  And if you had been a Ravens fan you would have sworn that Flacco's horrible post season nubers proved that he would nevert take them to the Super Bowl.

We have seen Dalton play on an elite level, and we have seen him beat the best in the game head to head.  He has what it takes.  He just needs to put it together in the playoffs.  I'll take that over someone who has not proven anything.

[BengalChris]

(01-17-2019, 08:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Can't be more fair than saying Trent is a better QB than Dan Marino ever was.

 

The fact is that, looking forward like we are now, people don't judge a player's ability to win a championship based solely on how many championships he has already won.  Early in his career Flacco played much worse in the postseason than Dalton, but Joe had a defense and run game to win games for him.  Then despite playing poorly in the past Flacco played very well one year and won it all.  Dalton's post season numbers are even better than Boomer's in 88, but because Boomer had the number one rushing game in the league he made it to the Super Bowl and is worshipped as a "winner".

No one can ever win the big game until he does.  Ken Anderson had zero playoff wins through the first 9 seasons of his career.  Based on your logic it was impossible for him to take us to the Super Bowl.  I lived in Denver in the early 90's.  Back then it was impossible for Elway to win a Super Bowl.  And if you had been a Ravens fan you would have sworn that Flacco's horrible post season nubers proved that he would nevert take them to the Super Bowl.

We have seen Dalton play on an elite level, and we have seen him beat the best in the game head to head.  He has what it takes.  He just needs to put it together in the playoffs.  I'll take that over someone who has not proven anything.

I don't see the connection between what I said and what you are talking about at all.

Why keep bringing up QBs who are vastly better careers than Dalton. Only further amplifies what I was saying. Just win baby!

 

[fredtoast]

(01-17-2019, 07:25 PM)t3r3e3 Wrote:  I give you props for arguing your point Fred, but you’re out to lunch on Andy’s body of work VS his peers who win Playoff games, get to Super Bowls, and win titles.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DaltAn00.htm

No I am not.  Lets keep the argument in recent history to make it as accurate as possible. Since '00 there have been 21 QBs to have started a Super Bowl.  Dalton is in the same class as almost half (9) of them (Kerry Collins, Trent Dilfer, Rex Grossman, Joe Flacco, Jake Delhomme, Matt Hasselbeck, Brad Johnson, Eli Manning, Colin Kaepernick).

Since true franchise quarterbacks are so hard to find, many teams end up in the Super Bowl with a QB who has good offensive coaches and teammates.  Put in the same position I believe Dalton could accomplish the same thing.  And I think it would be more likely to happen than just drafting one of those rare QBs who can carry a bad team.  Even Aaron Rodgers is just 10-12-1 over the last two seasons.

[fredtoast]

(01-17-2019, 08:27 PM)BengalChris Wrote: I don't see the connection between what I said and what you are talking about at all. 

Sorry all those words confused you.  Allow me to simplify

(01-17-2019, 06:44 PM)BengalChris Wrote: "Just win baby!" is probably one of the most sincere statements ever made.  Those who do it deserve it, those who don't don't. Can't get anymore fair than that.

 

(01-17-2019, 08:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Can't be more fair than saying Trent is a better QB than Dan Marino ever was.

See this is because Dilfer won a Super Bowl and Marino never did.  

(01-17-2019, 06:44 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Flacco wins in the playoffs (10 wins, 5 losses), Dalton doesn't (0 wins, 4 losses).
 

(01-17-2019, 08:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote:  Early in his career Flacco played much worse in the postseason than Dalton, but Joe had a defense and run game to win games for him.  Then despite playing poorly in the past Flacco played very well one year and won it all.  

And if you had been a Ravens fan you would have sworn that Flacco's horrible post season numbers proved that he would never take them to the Super Bowl.

Get it now?

If playing poorly in playoffs proves a QB can not win a championship then Flacco's play early in his year proved that he could never win a championship.  Yet he did win a championship.

[Jojo the Circus Boy]

(01-16-2019, 12:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Dalton is the caliber of QB who can post a 106 passer rating for a season.  Those are the type of QBs who can win Super Bowls.

It is not a "lottery ticket longshot" when he has already proven he can play at that level.

I agree with fred. What is more likely: a QB plays well during the season and suddenly chokes every year at playoff time or a combination of injuries (how many games have we had our offensive stars healthy during the same playoff game) and our coaching staff getting totally outclassed by better organizations? Marvin did a lot to turn this organization around but if you say he could be innovative or flexible in game planning then I 

[BengalChris]

(01-17-2019, 08:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Sorry all those words confused you.  Allow me to simplify



See this is because Dilfer won a Super Bowl and Marino never did.  




Get it now?

If playing poorly in playoffs proves a QB can not win a championship then Flacco's play early in his year proved that he could never win a championship.  Yet he did win a championship.

No, doesn't make any sense at all. This is about Dalton and whether or not is he a SB caliber QB. I merely gave his stats in the playoffs and you start comparing him to a guy went to a SB. You compared Flacco and Dalton as if somehow it proved something. I merely pointed out that Flacco won (10 playoff wins to 5 losses) while Dalton didn't (0 playoff wins to 4 losses) and that winners get the prize and winning is what it's all about.

You suddenly start comparing other QBs to other QBs, which has nothing to do with anything, except to prove my point. We are comparing to Dalton here and this is about whether or not Dalton is a SB caliber QB.

Marino compared to Dalton: Marino has 8 playoff wins to Dalton's 0, and he did take Miami to a SB. Marino is a winner. When he retired he held almost every passing record in the books, including 5 passing titles, 

Dilfer compared to Dalton: Dilfer had 5 playoff wins and 1 loss, compared to Dalton's 0 playoff wins and 4 losses. Again, he's a winner.

You bring up Ken Anderson, so let's compare: Anderson 2 playoff wins and 4 losses. Took Bengals to SB. Also won league MVP and 2 passing title. Compared to Dalton? Don't compare so well do they?


No matter how you compare any of these guys to Dalton it's going to come down to same thing: They won when it mattered most and Dalton no so much.


You brought all these guys up, not me. You say Dalton's stats show he's a SB caliber QB and I say they show he isn't. Doesn't mean he can't develop into one, but he's not a SB caliber QB until he is one. Until then, he's not.


 

[muskiesfan]

Here's what I don't understand. Many, many, many posters on this board have pointed to Marvin Lewis as a major issue as to why the Bengals never took the next step. They talk about how his poor clock management, lack of adjustments, and unwillingness to form a game plan around his talent as things that seriously hindered the team. They speak of how they would like see (insert player here) with a new coaching staff and how they would perform. How Lewis and his antiquated coaching held (insert player here) back from reaching their true potential. They use that for every player except 1, Andy Dalton.

Why do people believe that every player (even Ross) can potentially shine under a new coach but Dalton simply cannot? Why is a coaching change going to improve them but not Andy? It doesn't make sense. For some reason, any and every player has the ability to improve except Dalton. It makes absolutely no damn sense.

[fredtoast]

(01-17-2019, 10:54 PM)BengalChris Wrote: No, doesn't make any sense at all. This is about Dalton and whether or not is he a SB caliber QB. I merely gave his stats in the playoffs and you start comparing him to a guy went to a SB. You compared Flacco and Dalton as if somehow it proved something. I merely pointed out that Flacco won (10 playoff wins to 5 losses) while Dalton didn't (0 playoff wins to 4 losses) and that winners get the prize and winning is what it's all about.

You suddenly start comparing other QBs to other QBs, which has nothing to do with anything, except to prove my point. We are comparing to Dalton here and this is about whether or not Dalton is a SB caliber QB.

Marino compared to Dalton: Marino has 8 playoff wins to Dalton's 0, and he did take Miami to a SB. Marino is a winner. When he retired he held almost every passing record in the books, including 5 passing titles, 

Dilfer compared to Dalton: Dilfer had 5 playoff wins and 1 loss, compared to Dalton's 0 playoff wins and 4 losses. Again, he's a winner.

You bring up Ken Anderson, so let's compare: Anderson 2 playoff wins and 4 losses. Took Bengals to SB. Also won league MVP and 2 passing title. Compared to Dalton? Don't compare so well do they?


No matter how you compare any of these guys to Dalton it's going to come down to same thing: They won when it mattered most and Dalton no so much.


You brought all these guys up, not me. You say Dalton's stats show he's a SB caliber QB and I say they show he isn't. Doesn't mean he can't develop into one, but he's not a SB caliber QB until he is one. Until then, he's not.

Here is the simple point that keep going over your head.

You claim Dalton's poor performance in the playoffs prove that he can not win a championship.  Your logic fails because I can give examples of plenty of guys who played poorly in their early playoff careers but then went on to win Super Bowls.  So your argument prvove nothing about what will happen in 2019 or beyond.  And that is what most of us are talking about here.  We want to know if Dalton can win a championship in 2019, not in 2011 through 2017.

So just saying over and over again that he has not won a championship proves nothing.  So I don't know why you keep repeating those stats over and over again as if they proved what will happen in 2019.  all they prove is what has happened in the past and none of us disagree with you on what has already happened.