3-4 Back On The Table

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-14-2019, 12:49 AM)Synric Wrote: A 2 gap 34 like the Steelers run no the Bengals dont have the guys to run that...

But a single gap 34 like Wade Phillips and Todd Grantham run wouldn't be alot different than the 43/34 hybrid they ran under Marvin and PG.

(02-14-2019, 07:42 PM)Synric Wrote: There is more than one type of 43 and 34 defense. Jack Del Rio ran a 2 gap 43 which would look more like the Steelers 2 gap 34. Wade Phillips runs a 1 gap 34 that looks more like a 43 under. 

In fact a 1 gap 34 in a nickle is a 4 2 5 alignment.

Have been reading the debate back and forth in this thread cause we would have to add even more Linebackers than we need right now in our 4-3 but Synric as usual makes great points that need to be acknowledged here. There are different types of 3-4 alignments that might work out with our personnel. It is not all about Madden for heck sake as Bfine alluded to teams in the NFL transition from a 4-3 to a 3-4 all the time and it seems lots of teams are doing this now.

We need to add a bunch of Linebackers regardless. My only problem with us running a 3-4 most of the time is Lawson is not a good run stopper or good in coverage and he is arguably our best pass rusher. I think we need to run more of a hybrid that is not predictable.

[*Synric*]

(02-14-2019, 07:56 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Have been reading the debate back and forth in this thread cause we would have to add even more Linebackers than we need right now in our 4-3 but Synric as usual makes great points that need to be acknowledged here. There are different types of 3-4 alignments that might work out with our personnel. It is not all about Madden for heck sake as Bfine alluded to teams in the NFL transition from a 4-3 to a 3-4 all the time and it seems lots of teams are doing this now.

We need to add a bunch of Linebackers regardless. My only problem with us running a 3-4 most of the time is Lawson is not a good run stopper or good in coverage and he is arguably our best pass rusher. I think we need to run more of a hybrid that is not predictable.

They could still use Lawson as only an edge rusher in any defense they run. The NFL runs 11 personnel group more than any other so it really doesnt matter if it's a "34" or "43" defense the alightment is going to most likely be a 4 2 5.

What I like about the 34 under defense (Wade Phillip's coined defense) is they can move Geno and Lawson all over the place. Geno can play all 3 defensive line spots in that defense and they can rush Lawson from any linebacker position outside or inside.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-14-2019, 08:08 PM)Synric Wrote: They could still use Lawson as only an edge rusher in any defense they run. The NFL runs 11 personnel group more than any other so it really doesnt matter if it's a "34" or "43" defense the alightment is going to most likely be a 4 2 5.

What I like about the 34 under defense (Wade Phillip's coined defense) is they can move Geno and Lawson all over the place. Geno can play all 3 defensive line spots in that defense and they can rush Lawson from any linebacker position outside or inside.

Yes, have thought about that too. Imagine Geno getting on the edge against a weaker OT?

Dude could get thrown 8 yards into the QB lol

If you are moving Geno, Lawson, Dunlap and Hubbard around all over the place you are bound to get an advantage eventually.

Also, have not given up on the young Billings yet and if he can get in great shape he is one of the strongest players i have seen. He could play NT and there are lots of great DT's in this draft even if LB and OL need to be addressed first i think they will give Taylor a couple good FA's to address this. We will see but it seems Taylor is getting everything he wants.

[*bfine32*]

(02-14-2019, 10:19 AM)Cartman Wrote: You're forming an opinion derived from the obvious, just like everyone else does here.

Until it is tested and proven that our linebackers cannot play in a 3-4, as Befine suggested they could (also an opinion), then your opinion remains an opinion, just like his.

It is why my original response in the matter used the word "could" quite a bit. I've simply provide what could happen and given examples where it did happen. Dude just dug his heels into the "it can't happen" "obvious" so I let him roll with it. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-14-2019, 09:37 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It is why my original response in the matter used the word "could" quite a bit. I've simply provide what could happen and given examples where it did happen. Dude just dug his heels into the "it can't happen" "obvious" so I let him roll with it. 

Let the old man roll with the Madden argument even though these transitions DO actually happen in the NFL.

[Older Than You Too]

(02-15-2019, 01:33 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Let the old man roll with the Madden argument even though these transitions DO actually happen in the NFL.

They don't happen with the type of personnel we have though, which was my entire point from the beginning. Thinking you can just switch everyone's position with what we have and have them play where they've never played before IS some video game silliness.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-15-2019, 08:03 PM)Older Than You Too Wrote: They don't happen with the type of personnel we have though, which was my entire point from the beginning. Thinking you can just switch everyone's position with what we have and have them play where they've never played before IS some video game silliness.

You are still ignoring Synric's posts though, there are different 3-4 Defenses. We wouldn't be running one like the Steelers run which you would be correct, we don't have the personnel for that. If we added a few Linebackers and a NT or Billings came into his own we might be able to run a Wade Phillips single gap 3-4.

I mean it is possible, not just video game silliness.

[Older Than You Too]

(02-15-2019, 08:44 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: You are still ignoring Synric's posts though, there are different 3-4 Defenses. We wouldn't be running one like the Steelers run which you would be correct, we don't have the personnel for that. If we added a few Linebackers and a NT or Billings came into his own we might be able to run a Wade Phillips single gap 3-4.

I mean it is possible, not just video game silliness.

We don't have the personnel to run a one gap or two gap 3-4. Especially at LB.

[Socal Bengals fan]

We still need more beef up front and more linebackers!

[McC]

(02-16-2019, 12:23 AM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: We still need more beef up front and more linebackers!

If we had to, we could probably get by with what we have up front but fixing the LB issue is an absolute must.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-15-2019, 09:32 PM)Older Than You Too Wrote: We don't have the personnel to run a one gap or two gap 3-4. Especially at LB.

But we could if we added said personnel OTYT...

That is all anyone is saying here...

[Older Than You Too]

(02-16-2019, 03:32 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: But we could if we added said personnel OTYT...

That is all anyone is saying here...

That isn't what Bfine was saying. I made the statement we didn't have the personnel, he replied that I was guessing and that we DID have the personnel. Hence why I didn't reply/quote anybody other than him.

[SunsetBengal]

(02-17-2019, 07:04 PM)Older Than You Too Wrote: That isn't what Bfine was saying. I made the statement we didn't have the personnel, he replied that I was guessing and that we DID have the personnel. Hence why I didn't reply/quote anybody other than him.

Meh, many of us have differing opinions on that topic.  Not certain that any of us are right, as none of us can see the future..  As for me, I'm kinda in the middle on this one.  I could see a single gap 3-4 working here, with not a lot of changes from current personnel.  Sure, we need LBs, we need LBs no matter which alignment the new coach decides to go with.  However, I could see our younger talent like Hubbard, Willis, and Lawson all filling roles in a 3-4 with basically a seamless transition.  

Either direction that they decide to go, I say bringing in both a vet in FA, and drafting a high quality LB will cure most of what ailed last year's defense.  Of course, I'm also counting on Glassgow coming back healthy and Ringo proving to be more than just a flash in the pan.

[McC]

(02-17-2019, 07:25 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Meh, many of us have differing opinions on that topic.  Not certain that any of us are right, as none of us can see the future..  As for me, I'm kinda in the middle on this one.  I could see a single gap 3-4 working here, with not a lot of changes from current personnel.  Sure, we need LBs, we need LBs no matter which alignment the new coach decides to go with.  However, I could see our younger talent like Hubbard, Willis, and Lawson all filling roles in a 3-4 with basically a seamless transition.  

Either direction that they decide to go, I say bringing in both a vet in FA, and drafting a high quality LB will cure most of what ailed last year's defense.  Of course, I'm also counting on Glassgow coming back healthy and Ringo proving to be more than just a flash in the pan.

Plus, Washington didn't look half bad before he went down and we still haven't seen what we have in Brown.  We could use a big bodied run staffer behind Billings but those guys don't have to come in the early rounds.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-17-2019, 07:04 PM)Older Than You Too Wrote: That isn't what Bfine was saying. I made the statement we didn't have the personnel, he replied that I was guessing and that we DID have the personnel. Hence why I didn't reply/quote anybody other than him.

Okay, cool man.

(02-17-2019, 07:25 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Meh, many of us have differing opinions on that topic.  Not certain that any of us are right, as none of us can see the future..  As for me, I'm kinda in the middle on this one.  I could see a single gap 3-4 working here, with not a lot of changes from current personnel.  Sure, we need LBs, we need LBs no matter which alignment the new coach decides to go with.  However, I could see our younger talent like Hubbard, Willis, and Lawson all filling roles in a 3-4 with basically a seamless transition.  

Either direction that they decide to go, I say bringing in both a vet in FA, and drafting a high quality LB will cure most of what ailed last year's defense.  Of course, I'm also counting on Glassgow coming back healthy and Ringo proving to be more than just a flash in the pan.

Great post Sunset, feel the same.

Pretty cool that Ringo looked as good as he did for an UDFA.

(02-17-2019, 07:55 PM)McC Wrote: Plus, Washington didn't look half bad before he went down and we still haven't seen what we have in Brown.  We could use a big bodied run staffer behind Billings but those guys don't have to come in the early rounds.

Glad to hear something about Adolphus Washington, didn't get to watch the games after we got him.

Thought it was a good grab initially.

Billings is still the guy that i hope can become that big run stopper that can make a splash sack once in awhile. Dude when healthy is so strong that O-lines will have to double him or Geno and one of them will be freed up eventually. It has just taken a lot more time with Billings than i thought it would cause of the injury and him being so young. He needs to figure out how Guards and Centers are trying to play him so he cannot get washed out of plays.

[*bfine32*]

(02-17-2019, 07:04 PM)Older Than You Too Wrote: That isn't what Bfine was saying. I made the statement we didn't have the personnel, he replied that I was guessing and that we DID have the personnel. Hence why I didn't reply/quote anybody other than him.

If we have people getting paid to play defense in the NFL; then we have the personnel. 

[Hammerstripes]

The reality is that regardless of the 3-4 or 4-3 designation, this team (and most teams in the league) will use a base 4-2-5 (nickel)

Teams run so many 3 and 4 WR sets that in reality, its just a matter of what 4 linemen you put on the field.

[bengals67]

Does running a 3-4 gives a defense more options to confuse both the QB and the o line.

That is the big question in my mind.

Not worried about transition because the next two years are going to be transition/re-building years ( or they should be)

[grampahol]

Maybe they'll really confuse em with a 0-11 formation.. or a 10-1 like that magical play against Shitzberg.. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

Moot point, Capt. Lou will run the 4-3.