Bengals shopping John Ross

[Au165]

(02-26-2019, 04:58 PM)2MinutesHate Wrote: I like this idea.  Payback for Antonio Bryant as well.  

Actually, I thought there was a good chance Ross wouldn't even make it to the final 53 after camp.  I don't see Taylor clogging up a roster spot for a guy who shouldn't even be here in the first place.

With that said, I seriously doubt we are going to get much for him if they're already leaking it that he's on the chopping block so long before the draft.  I would've waited until then to try to dump him to try to hide the fact more by packaging him with a draft pick or something.

Leaks are interesting because two people are involved in the discussion. It could also be his agent because they want out, upset with how his first two years went. I would be curious if it's a "hey he is available" or a "hey we are interested in x player and we are open to moving Ross if you have interest".?

[*bengalfan74*]

(02-26-2019, 04:43 PM)HuDey Wrote: This signals progress to me. Willing to move on from mistakes rather than keep them around hoping that they someday justify the investment.

Let's hope this is the start of good things to come. This team has held onto way, way to many marginal players for way to long.

Whether Ross goes or not it may signal the start of a purge of those marginal players that's long overdue ? 

[Millhouse]

I have to think Andy gave his opinion on this, as he would have the best opinion influencing whether to keep or shop.

[lone bengal]

I pray to god that the Billy Price pick works out. We’ve literally gotten absolutely nothing out of Ogbuehi and Ross. It’s one thing for a 1st round pick to be somewhat serviceable but we’ve gotten nothing from these guys. This trend can’t continue for a team that mostly builds through the draft.

[HarleyDog]

(02-26-2019, 05:17 PM)lone bengal Wrote: I pray to god that the Billy Price pick works out. We’ve literally gotten absolutely nothing out of Ogbuehi and Ross. It’s one thing for a 1st round pick to be somewhat serviceable but we’ve gotten nothing from these guys. This trend can’t continue for a team that mostly builds through the draft.

I attribute that to Lewis & Co.

[impactplaya]

this is deeper than just John Ross not panning out. this falls on the shoulders of Duke Tobin who had Patrick Mahomes available among other and better options drafted after Ross.
If Ross is moved he probally goes to a NFC team starved for WRs like the Cards Redskins maybe the Lions 49ers.
how many 1st RD picks can Tobin whiff on and keep his job?
if hes traded I see Cincy drsfting a WR in the RDs 3 to 6.
maybe they acquire DeShaun Jackson?

[*Nately120*]

I guess our new offensive genius HC isn't quite as convinced the problem with Ross was Marvin and Lazor as this board is. Interesting...


Again, not to sound like I wanted Marvin Lewis here after 2010, but this reaction seems amusingly unfair.

Marvin - I don't want John Ross
Bengals fans - BOOOOO

Marvin - John Ross isn't good enough to make a significant part of the offense
Bengals fans - BOOOOO, it's your fault our top 10 pick sucks! Our next HC will be overjoyed to have him!

Taylor- I don't want John Ross
Bengals fans - Woahh!! What a breath of fresh air! Trade Ross for a bag of peanuts!


Ida know...just amusing that Marvin has been "meh" on Ross for 2 years while we figured he was a dope for not using the guy and ZT has barely warmed up the HC chair before he's done with Ross and we are floored with how perceptive he is and how not wanting John Ross is a sign of change. Wacky.

[Whatever]

(02-26-2019, 05:00 PM)Au165 Wrote: Leaks are interesting because two people are involved in the discussion. It could also be his agent because they want out, upset with how his first two years went. I would be curious if it's a "hey he is available" or a "hey we are interested in x player and we are open to moving Ross if you have interest".?

Sounds like the feeling is mutual between the two parties.

I'm not opposed to trading him, but for all his faults, 7 TD's is going to be tough to replace and the WR's behind him don't exactly inspire confidence.  You can't just dump him for a 6th and $2 million in cap room.  You need an equivalent player.

Part of me wonders if it's an economics thing. AJ and Boyd are going to get paid and they aren't also going to give a big deal to Ross.  Plus, Mixon needs paid next off-season.

[RunKijanaRun]

(02-26-2019, 04:59 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Agreed. We obviously made a mistake.

No sense in following a mistake (drafting him) with another mistake (keeping a bust around just because we spent a top pick on him).

When said mistake might just need a fresh start to be less of a mistake, it is a mistake to ship him off for next to nothing.

I can't stand John Ross. I whined like a steeler offensive lineman called for holding when we picked him. His play makes me angry. His stupid face makes me even angrier. It makes me furious when a f/o completely botches a pick like that when even sidewalk fans knew it was a mistake.

But he is fast, and maybe, somehow, this new group can find a way to make that speed useful. If not, so be it. That 5th we might get for him this season can be the 6th we get for him at the trade deadline. Dumping him now just seems reactionary and impetuous, 2 things a young coach should not be labeled this early in his tenure. 

[*Nately120*]

(02-26-2019, 05:48 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: But he is fast, and maybe, somehow, this new group can find a way to make that speed useful. If not, so be it. That 5th we might get for him this season can be the 6th we get for him at the trade deadline. Dumping him now just seems reactionary and impetuous, 2 things a young coach should not be labeled this early in his tenure. 

Yeah, I don't like Ross either, but I also realize that ZT bailing on a top 10 pick before he's even had time to blow the Marvin-stink out of his office might be painted as more of a failure to meet a challenge than anything.

It's funny how quickly we flipped from a new coaching staff easily turning Ross around to a new coaching staff possibly trading the guy at a huge loss. Personally, I don't mind the Bengals trading Ross for a late round pick, but I didn't spend the past 2 years stating that the guy was good, either.

EDIT - The Raiders gave the Steelers a 3rd Martavis Bryant and the Colts gave up a 1st for Trent Richardson, so anything is possible I guess.

[*bengalfan74*]

(02-26-2019, 05:37 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I guess our new offensive genius HC isn't quite as convinced the problem with Ross was Marvin and Lazor as this board is.  Interesting...


Again, not to sound like I wanted Marvin Lewis here after 2010, but this reaction seems amusingly unfair.

Marvin - I don't want John Ross
Bengals fans - BOOOOO

Marvin - John Ross isn't good enough to make a significant part of the offense
Bengals fans - BOOOOO, it's your fault our top 10 pick sucks!  Our next HC will be overjoyed to have him!

Taylor- I don't want John Ross
Bengals fans - Woahh!!  What a breath of fresh air!  Trade Ross for a bag of peanuts!


Ida know...just amusing that Marvin has been "meh" on Ross for 2 years while we figured he was a dope for not using the guy and ZT has barely warmed up the HC chair before he's done with Ross and we are floored with how perceptive he is and how not wanting John Ross is a sign of change.  Wacky.

True, and when looked at in a vacuum a very good point.

But, didn't Marvin play a part in keeping Ogbuehi out there for far to long ? Redmond ? Who kept D. Roland around for years eating up a roster spot ? Why was MJ still playing RDE for a boatload of snaps this season ? To site just a few examples.

[J24]

Stupid move at most we get a 6th or 7th Rd pick for him. I would think the new system would be better for him anyway.

[*Nately120*]

(02-26-2019, 05:56 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: True, and when looked at in a vacuum a very good point.

But, didn't Marvin play a part in keeping Ogbuehi out there for far to long ? Redmond ? Who kept D. Roland around for years eating up a roster spot ? Why was MJ still playing RDE for a boatload of snaps this season ? To site just a few examples.

Again, I'm not fighting for Marvin so much as doing my usual analysis of the human mindset, on this one.  Marvin is down on Ross while seeing 2 off-seasons and 2 years of practice and playing and ZT hasn't even met the guy (I assume) and his thumbs down is all we need to FINALLY wake up and realize Ross is a bust of a top 10 pick.

For all we know Marvin may have wanted to trade Ross for a 1st round pick the second we drafted him.  But that's hyperbole, really.  If you would have told Bengals fans that in 2019 John Ross had been traded away at a loss I assume they would have said "Oh no...Marvin didn't get fired!"

But the thing is, we really are "all in" on ZT if we are going to be ok with him dumping Ross before he even gives the guy the shot we were sure Marvin never gave him. All in...that's what we are.

[MentalRage]

It's going to be interesting to see what is offered for Ross. I don't expect much. At most a fourth rounder.

Also, anyone blaming the Bengals for passing up Mahomes for Ross needs to quit. Nobody knew Mahomes would turn out the way he did. If NFL teams knew he would be this good they would have drafted him number one overall or fought like hell to get that first pick. Hindsight is 20/20. Now if you want to argue that they passed up on guys like Malik Hooker, Jonathan Allen, OJ Howard, Marshon Lattimor, etc then that is a legit conversation.

[*Nately120*]

(02-26-2019, 06:03 PM)MentalRage Wrote: It's going to be interesting to see what is offered for Ross. I don't expect much. At most a fourth rounder.

Also, anyone blaming the Bengals for passing up Mahomes for Ross needs to quit. Nobody knew Mahomes would turn out the way he did. If NFL teams knew he would be this good they would have drafted him number one overall or fought like hell to get that first pick. Hindsight is 20/20. Now if you want to argue that they passed up on guys like Malik Hooker, Jonathan Allen, OJ Howard, Marshon Lattimor, etc then that is a legit conversation.

KC traded up to get him, so I would say they had a bit of a better idea of what Mahommes was that we did.  Mahommes isn't like some Tom Brady late-round shot, he was a 1st round talent and he's an ideally-sized pocket QB.  But it was the 2017 draft and everyone was thinking more about "getting their Dak Prescott" on day 2.

Again, I'm not saying I saw the future on Mahommes, but taking a talented QB when you have a solid veteran QB in place is a better bet than Darius Heyward Bey 2.0.

[J24]

(02-26-2019, 06:09 PM)Nately120 Wrote: KC traded up to get him, so I would say they had a bit of a better idea of what Mahommes was that we did.  Mahommes isn't like some Tom Brady late-round shot, he was a 1st round talent and he's an ideally-sized pocket QB.  But it was the 2017 draft and everyone was thinking more about "getting their Dak Prescott" on day 2.

Again, I'm not saying I saw the future on Mahommes, but taking a talented QB when you have a solid veteran QB in place is a better bet than Darius Heyward Bey 2.0.

Yeah not drafting Mahomes hurts but would he be successful here? Bad offensive line, Injury riddled TE, no speed at WR outside of Green.  

[MentalRage]

(02-26-2019, 06:09 PM)Nately120 Wrote: KC traded up to get him, so I would say they had a bit of a better idea of what Mahommes was that we did.  Mahommes isn't like some Tom Brady late-round shot, he was a 1st round talent and he's an ideally-sized pocket QB.  But it was the 2017 draft and everyone was thinking more about "getting their Dak Prescott" on day 2.

Again, I'm not saying I saw the future on Mahommes, but taking a talented QB when you have a solid veteran QB in place is a better bet than Darius Heyward Bey 2.0.

I can agree with the merit of drafting a young talented QB. I'm all for that. But 99% of people saying they should have drafted him over Ross are only saying that because of what he just did this season.

I wasn't a fan of the Ross pick btw. I wanted either Malik Hooker or Derek Barnett.

[*Nately120*]

(02-26-2019, 06:18 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Yeah not drafting Mahomes hurts but would he be successful here? Bad offensive line, Injury riddled TE, no speed at WR outside of Green.  

During this season we concluded at various points that neither the MVP QB nor the QB who eventually won his 6th SB could be successful here...yet somehow we are still optimistic about 2019.

Again, fandom intrigues me so.  Anyways, I'm not sure how I turned this into me sounding like I was on the Mahommes train from draft day onward...I wasn't.  I'm just saying seeing Mahommes being better than Ross isn't the sort of thing that requires the magic of hindsight. 

(02-26-2019, 06:23 PM)MentalRage Wrote: I can agree with the merit of drafting a young talented QB. I'm all for that. But 99% of people saying they should have drafted him over Ross are only saying that because of what he just did this season.

I wasn't a fan of the Ross pick btw. I wanted either Malik Hooker or Derek Barnett.

In all fairness, being the MVP in your 1st year as a starter does sort of catch the eyes of people.  Also, I'd have to say that more than 1% of football fans had the idea that Mahommes was going to be better/more important than John Ross.  One guy is the "best" player in the league right now and one is being shopped for what may end up being a late-round pick.  Someone had to see this coming.

[*bengalfan74*]

(02-26-2019, 06:01 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Again, I'm not fighting for Marvin so much as doing my usual analysis of the human mindset, on this one.  Marvin is down on Ross while seeing 2 off-seasons and 2 years of practice and playing and ZT hasn't even met the guy (I assume) and his thumbs down is all we need to FINALLY wake up and realize Ross is a bust of a top 10 pick.

For all we know Marvin may have wanted to trade Ross for a 1st round pick the second we drafted him.  But that's hyperbole, really.  If you would have told Bengals fans that in 2019 John Ross had been traded away at a loss I assume they would have said "Oh no...Marvin didn't get fired!"

But the thing is, we really are "all in" on ZT if we are going to be ok with him dumping Ross before he even gives the guy the shot we were sure Marvin never gave him.  All in...that's what we are.

Oh I totally get what you're saying and agree mostly. 

I would truly love to know the "real truth" to not only the Ross story but so many others. Who really picked Ross ? Tobin ? MB ? ML ? Who really picked Ogbuehi ?  PA ? MB ? Who decided he kept playing way after it was obvious he wasn't good enough ? One could go on and on.

I'm just willing to pay out a bunch of benefit of the doubt rope to ZT because I'm so happy ML is gone.

[Trademark]

Very dumb but I expect nothing less from this franchise