Mixon doesn’t want Ross to leave

[TheUberHuber]

(02-28-2019, 02:03 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Wasn’t talking about you specifically. There are those in the fandom that seem like they’d rather be right, than root for him to succeed though. At least it seems that way to me.

Na, most, if not all people posting on a bengals fan site dont want ross to fail if he is still wearing stripes. 

 People are just frustrated with his bad play so far -- whatever the cause of it is. It could very well be they didnt use him correctly who knows. I just assume get rid of him because he is going to make 5.5 million next year which is no chump change and could go towards better production somewhere else. If we dont move him this year and he sucks or gets hurt again, we wouldn't be able to move him at all and have to eat that cap space.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-28-2019, 03:05 AM)TheUberHuber Wrote: Na, most, if not all people posting on a bengals fan site dont want ross to fail if he is still wearing stripes. 

 People are just frustrated with his bad play so far -- whatever the cause of it is. It could very well be they didnt use him correctly who knows. I just assume get rid of him because he is going to make 5.5 million next year which is no chump change and could go towards better production somewhere else. If we dont move him this year and he sucks or gets hurt again, we wouldn't be able to move him at all and have to eat that cap space.

Like an over the hill LB, or mediocre OT...

[TheUberHuber]

(02-28-2019, 03:34 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Like an over the hill LB, or mediocre OT...

Maybe i was not clear with what i meant. I didnt mean just replacing him with a 5.5 million "mediocre vet." And if that were the case i could agree, to some extent, that would be a bad move. There still is a chance ross could end up being good -- it could happen. Dealing young players is always somewhat of a gamble.  part of me wants them to keep him around just to see, but if he sucks again nobody will trade for him and we are stuck.. 

So mainly imo at this point, if we could use his cap space to put towards a good lineman it would be better in terms of team need. Plus we probably will draft another wr anyway. 

mb and coy like to have a cushion for emergency in the season, so having the extra 5.5 million could be the difference in them pulling the trigger on someone who isn't "mediocre or over the hill." 

So say that extra 5.5 gives them 20 vs 14.5 million.. it gives them more room to maybe make a bigger purchase. Bengals usually dont take the cap space down to nothing. They have before but not usually. 

And if i had to choose between an above average lineman and ross... at this point i would choose the lineman.

Its kinda like the law of diminishing returns. We need lineman, not a niche wr.

[*SHRacerX*]

(02-27-2019, 09:57 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Ross has a lot of ground to make up before anyone will need to eat a single word.

Two WRs taken in the same draft

John Ross
#9 overall pick 2017 draft
60 targets, 21 catches, 210 yards, 7 TDs

JuJu Smith-Schuster
62nd overall pick 2017 draft
245 targets, 169 catches, 2343 yards, 14 TDs

Ross has a lot of millage to make up. Even if he has a 1000 yard season in 2019 he'll still be way behind the other guy we passed on twice. The more excuses I hear for Ross' bad production the more I realize what a bad pick he was for this team.

I assure you that if we had picked JuJu instead we'd all be looking at these stats and saying, "boy, aren't we happy we didn't draft that Ross guy."

 

Can we agree that some of Ross's lack of production, especially his rookie season, was due to injury? 

And in his first full season he made a few plays, but rarely saw the ball on a slant, screen, jet sweep, etc?  Does that make sense to you?  Have you ever watched how the Chiefs use Tyreek Hill?  

Here is some other food for thought:  16 receptions, 167 yards, 0 TDs.  Any idea who had that rookie season?  Antonio Brown.  Good thing for them they didn't give up on him.  Oh, and his team had a strong offense, a good line, and multiple weapons.  This offense had none of that after injuries took their toll early.

Ross is clearly not without fault.  You have to stay healthy.  You can't give up on balls or run the wrong route, and you certainly can't go online an post a video called "healthy scratch" with you toasting your team in practice.  He has to mature and improve the mental side of his game.  But I would not be close to giving up on him.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(02-27-2019, 10:31 PM)Whatever Wrote: Juju is more like Boyd when it comes to their role and skill set.  Ross was drafted because they needed a deep threat to offset the constant double teams on AJ and open things up underneath.  

Which was working through the first five weeks of the season.  I just wish they had manufactured some touches for him with jet sweeps, slants, and screens.  I would imagine ZT will remedy that issue.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(02-28-2019, 01:59 AM)BengalChris Wrote: I don't hate him. I didn't like the pick, but I don't hate him. So far, the reasons I didn't like the pick have all turned out to be true. And, even if he does have a very good year, that won't change that he's had two bad ones and has been overshadowed by other players in his class, and that the reasons I didn't like the pick all showed themselves in the NFL.

I hope he turns it around, but that won't change the past two years and the reasons people have to doubt him.

Not hating him is still pretty far from not supporting him...and I am glad you feel vindicated in your reasons for not liking the pick.  Let me ask you this:  How were you feeling after 5 weeks in to the season last year when the Bengals were 4-1? 

Were you still upset about the pick or were you happy the Bengals were winning?  

[SnakeEyez925]

For what it's worth, like OP said... Mixon and Ross are friends, and he may be Joe's best friend on the team.

When I met both at Joe's Spring FB camp in CA, it was clear they were good friends off the field, cracking jokes and having fun... and you can see when Ross scored a couple of his TDs this year that Joe was always his head cheerleader.

Let's hope Ross picks up on Mixon's intensity and is not as passive this year on the field in his routes. I am not someone who believes trading him is a good idea.

[BengalChris]

(02-28-2019, 08:29 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Not hating him is still pretty far from not supporting him...and I am glad you feel vindicated in your reasons for not liking the pick.  Let me ask you this:  How were you feeling after 5 weeks in to the season last year when the Bengals were 4-1? 

Were you still upset about the pick or were you happy the Bengals were winning?  

Hoping he becomes a good player for the Bengals and helps them win is far from hating him and about as much support as I feel he deserves. He's going to have to do the rest.

How I felt after the team went 4-1 was that bringing back Marvin was the right thing to do after I was initially shocked by Mike Brown's decision to do so. Later, of course, I realized that it probably would have been best if the team had moved on.

With regards to Ross after 5 games I felt that his route running was limiting him and causing incompletions. I actually think he gets disoriented and lost in his routes causing him to not be in the right place. I saw him being a very willing run blocker, a definite plus. The team did figure out he can be used in red zone.

The videos to show up the coaches, the hidden injury (which could have been fake to explain his continued inactive status after bad practices) are just not things a good player does.

While the Bengals could have been the ones to float the idea of trading Ross, it is more likely that it was Ross and his agent who started that rumor. The least likely is that some random person made it up.

 

[Catmandude123]

(02-27-2019, 01:32 AM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Wrong.

Among WRs with at least 15 deep targets (20+ yds), John Ross saw the second highest uncatchable target rate (73.3%) according to @SportsInfo_SIS

Maybe the Bengals should get a competent QB before giving up on Ross.

— Ryan McCrystal (@Ryan_McCrystal) February 26, 2019

A little more context for how bad Dalton/Driskel were at finding Ross: among those WRs with at least 15 deep targets, the avg. uncatchable target rate was 46.8%

— Ryan McCrystal (@Ryan_McCrystal) February 26, 2019

I wrote about John Ross's sophomore season in January. Videos show each of his deep targets and more. https://t.co/RKlTRsu6UE

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) February 26, 2019

So you think he needs to learn how to run better routes they have in the playbooks that other WRs run an make adjustments to make catches?
OK then.

[Catmandude123]

(02-27-2019, 11:17 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: well about every other catch is a TD just needs more catches

Twenty one catches and 210 yds in two years is the classic fail scenario for the ninth overall pick in the draft.

[Bengalitis]

(02-27-2019, 01:13 AM)BengalChris Wrote: John Ross 2018
Week 17 - 5 targets, 1 catch for 1 yard.
Week 16 - 5 targets, 1 catch for 3 yards (TD).
Week 15 - 5 targets, 1 catch for 6 yards.
Week 14 - 4 targets, 2 catches for 11 yards (TD).
Week 13 - 3 targets, 2 catches for 13 yards.
Week 12 - 7 targets, 3 catches for 31 yards (TD).
Week 11 - 7 targets, 2 catches for 27 yards (TD).
Week 10 - 6 targets, 2 catches for 39 yards (TD).
Week 9 -  bye
Week 8 - injured
Week 7 - 1 target, 0 catches for 0 yards.
Week 6 - injured
Week 5 - injured
Week 4 - 2 targets, 2 catches for 51 yards (TD).
Week 3 - 7 targets, 3 catches for 16 yards.
Week 2 - 4 targets, 1 catch for 8 yards.
Week 1 - 2 targets, 1 catch for 3 yards (TD).

This is just not the production numbers expected of a top 10 pick.

 

I'm sure his stats with Driskel improved???  

[Bengalitis]

(02-28-2019, 08:25 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Which was working through the first five weeks of the season.  I just wish they had manufactured some touches for him with jet sweeps, slants, and screens.  I would imagine ZT will remedy that issue.  

The reason everything worked the first 5 games was because of Eifert, not Ross. 

[Catmandude123]

(02-27-2019, 11:20 AM)Flirtdoc Wrote: Look at the money Ross is due coming up. Zac, Dalton, Mixon, AJ do not want Ross to leave.

This is just a sign that the Bengals are still cheap skates

Dude , do you even bother to research the crap you post here. He only costs two million per year for the next two years. Pretty cheap for a #2 wr. He definitely needs to step up this year or they won't pick up his fifth year option. If he doesn't excel this year then he probably be a Bengal after next year.

[Bengalitis]

(02-28-2019, 10:09 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Dude , do you even bother to research the crap you post here. He only costs two million per year for the next two years. Pretty cheap for a #2 wr. He definitely needs to step up this year or they won't pick up his fifth year option. If he doesn't excel this year then he probably be a Bengal after next year.

If he stays, they need to re-negotiate his salary at least. League minimum.

[Au165]

(02-28-2019, 10:18 AM)Bengalitis Wrote: If he stays, they need to re-negotiate his salary at least. League minimum.

You can't renegotiate a rookie deal they are locked in by the CBA. 

[Bengalitis]

(02-28-2019, 10:43 AM)Au165 Wrote: You can't renegotiate a rookie deal they are locked in by the CBA. 

 I knew there was gonna be a "catch" somewhere!!  

[*SHRacerX*]

(02-28-2019, 09:55 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Twenty one catches and 210 yds in two years is the classic fail scenario for the ninth overall pick in the draft.

Injuries his first year, and Antonio brown had something like 16 catches for 167 yards and no TDs his first season.  Lucky for pitt (and unlucky for us) they didn't give up on him.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(02-28-2019, 10:06 AM)Bengalitis Wrote: The reason everything worked the first 5 games was because of Eifert, not Ross. 

You fail to understand the concept of having an X receiver taking the proverbial top off the defense.  Safeties had to play off and that helped the running game (our best YPC average as a team in over a decade) and the slot WR and TE to thrive underneath.  Hell, a lot of AJ's early success was underneath crossing routes and the like.  

Interesting point is that in the Red Zone, Ross was getting open and getting targets.  It was as though they only wanted him running verticals until they got to the red zone and then they would give him chances. 

If the Chiefs, Pats, or steelers (puke) had Ross, they would be manufacturing 5 touches a game with high % screens, slants, and jet sweeps to force teams to chase and tackle him in space.  I have no idea why Lazor barely if ever did that with Ross.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(02-28-2019, 09:14 AM)SnakeEyez925 Wrote: For what it's worth, like OP said... Mixon and Ross are friends, and he may be Joe's best friend on the team.

When I met both at Joe's Spring FB camp in CA, it was clear they were good friends off the field, cracking jokes and having fun... and you can see when Ross scored a couple of his TDs this year that Joe was always his head cheerleader.  

Let's hope Ross picks up on Mixon's intensity and is not as passive this year on the field in his routes.  I am not someone who believes trading him is a good idea.

I have been accused of having rose(orange)-colored glasses before, so take this for what it is worth, but I think Ross actually got a lot better coming back for balls and contesting underthrown balls as the season wore on.  One was so far behind him, he couldn't possibly have hit the brakes and reversed his direction fast enough, but he did get better as the season wore on.  

[muskiesfan]

(02-28-2019, 11:17 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Injuries his first year, and Antonio brown had something like 16 catches for 167 yards and no TDs his first season.  Lucky for pitt (and unlucky for us) they didn't give up on him.  

I tend to agree with you on a lot of things and I get what you're trying to say, but AB is a bad production comparison for Ross. They may be more similar in their attitudes/personality, but even before the draft I would've never thought of Ross as potential AB level.

I'm sure there is more the team could do to try and help Ross progress, but his ability to get injured may make them a little gun shy. It seems that when he truly tries to go full out, he always comes up lame. Honestly, using him sparingly seems like it may be the only way to keep him for a full season. I want the guy to breakout and perform well. I want him to be the receiver we all wish he could be, but he hasn't shown he can be anything remotely close to that.

Trading him for a 5th or lower seems like such a loss that I'd rather keep him and turn him into a special teamer if that's what it takes. Get some use and value out of him.