Mixon doesn’t want Ross to leave

[muskiesfan]

(02-28-2019, 11:21 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: You fail to understand the concept of having an X receiver taking the proverbial top off the defense.  Safeties had to play off and that helped the running game (our best YPC average as a team in over a decade) and the slot WR and TE to thrive underneath.  Hell, a lot of AJ's early success was underneath crossing routes and the like.  

Interesting point is that in the Red Zone, Ross was getting open and getting targets.  It was as though they only wanted him running verticals until they got to the red zone and then they would give him chances. 

If the Chiefs, Pats, or steelers (puke) had Ross, they would be manufacturing 5 touches a game with high % screens, slants, and jet sweeps to force teams to chase and tackle him in space.  I have no idea why Lazor barely if ever did that with Ross.  

I think you're giving Ross a little too much credit in the run game. Mixon is a beast. Taking the top off the D doesn't matter when your OLine is atrocious. Mixon still beasted.

It's funny, because one of the things I liked about Ross coming out of college was his red zone ability. He was one of, if not the top WR in the red zone in the NCAA. He has some value there and can seem to find a way to get open. He does add value in the red zone. We just need to find a way to help him to get it to click between the 20s.

[*SHRacerX*]

(02-28-2019, 11:27 AM)muskiesfan Wrote: I tend to agree with you on a lot of things and I get what you're trying to say, but AB is a bad production comparison for Ross. They may be more similar in their attitudes/personality, but even before the draft I would've never thought of Ross as potential AB level.

I'm sure there is more the team could do to try and help Ross progress, but his ability to get injured may make them a little gun shy. It seems that when he truly tries to go full out, he always comes up lame. Honestly, using him sparingly seems like it may be the only way to keep him for a full season. I want the guy to breakout and perform well. I want him to be the receiver we all wish he could be, but he hasn't shown he can be anything remotely close to that.

Trading him for a 5th or lower seems like such a loss that I'd rather keep him and turn him into a special teamer if that's what it takes. Get some use and value out of him.

I can promise you that won't happen.  Unless he tanks and becomes a huge attitude issue, he is here at least two more years.

Antonio Brown was, what, a 5th round pick and ran something like a 4.59 at the combine?  Now, he is one of the fastest in the league.  Makes very little sense.  

My bias may be because I wanted Ross so badly.  I was THRILLED to get him as a complement to AJ Green.  I looked at his as a faster Marvin Jones that could do more things, and could help take the top off the defense.  Be the Chris Henry to the Chad (AJ) and TJ (Boyd) as we had for a very brief period together...and they also had Eifert!  However, results fell well short of expectations.  It's really sad as I saw Dalton improve his improvised plays and have a great season started, but injuries and predictable offensive plays (teams adapted, Bengals had no answer) doomed them.

I am finding myself looking at the new, young, college-game minded coaches and I can't wait to see what they can do with all the weapons on offense.  Gio as a WR in some formations, or in motion, with Mixon on the field at the same time.  Ross in motion, whether faking or giving a jet sweep, LBs would have to account for it.  Bunch formations with Ross, Boyd, and Eifert on one side and AJ Green alone on the other side.  There are so many possibilities and potential for explosive offense.  I think the defense will continue to be awful unless they get two dynamic additions to the LB crew, and a DT next to Geno that can really rush the passer.  The offense, however, could be pretty fun to watch.  

[muskiesfan]

(02-28-2019, 11:35 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I can promise you that won't happen.  Unless he tanks and becomes a huge attitude issue, he is here at least two more years.

Antonio Brown was, what, a 5th round pick and ran something like a 4.59 at the combine?  Now, he is one of the fastest in the league.  Makes very little sense.  

My bias may be because I wanted Ross so badly.  I was THRILLED to get him as a complement to AJ Green.  I looked at his as a faster Marvin Jones that could do more things, and could help take the top off the defense.  Be the Chris Henry to the Chad (AJ) and TJ (Boyd) as we had for a very brief period together...and they also had Eifert!  However, results fell well short of expectations.  It's really sad as I saw Dalton improve his improvised plays and have a great season started, but injuries and predictable offensive plays (teams adapted, Bengals had no answer) doomed them.

I am finding myself looking at the new, young, college-game minded coaches and I can't wait to see what they can do with all the weapons on offense.  Gio as a WR in some formations, or in motion, with Mixon on the field at the same time.  Ross in motion, whether faking or giving a jet sweep, LBs would have to account for it.  Bunch formations with Ross, Boyd, and Eifert on one side and AJ Green alone on the other side.  There are so many possibilities and potential for explosive offense.  I think the defense will continue to be awful unless they get two dynamic additions to the LB crew, and a DT next to Geno that can really rush the passer.  The offense, however, could be pretty fun to watch.  

I am also in the minority as I liked the Ross pick. I really thought he could be the piece to the passing game that really set it off. Him posting the video to Twitter, giving up on routes, poor route running, and the like have soured me on him. I thought he was a much better route runner in college. He said himself that he needs to just play, so maybe it's all in his head. I still have some hope, but he needs to mature as well.

I'd be incredibly happy if he could turn into a receiver that gives us 500-600 yards and 5 TDs or more a year. As long as we keep AJ and Boyd around, that kind of production would be great. I get concerned that it seems like every time he sprints, he comes up limping. I don't know how to fix that other than using him differently and not just running verticals or sweeps. I think screens could be good to give him a chance in space, but that hasn't seemed to be in the team's thought process so far.

I'd definitely like to see Mixon and Bernard on the field together a lot more. If they can fix the OLine, there is a lot of potential on the offense.

[*SHRacerX*]

(02-28-2019, 11:30 AM)muskiesfan Wrote: I think you're giving Ross a little too much credit in the run game. Mixon is a beast. Taking the top off the D doesn't matter when your OLine is atrocious. Mixon still beasted.

It's funny, because one of the things I liked about Ross coming out of college was his red zone ability. He was one of, if not the top WR in the red zone in the NCAA. He has some value there and can seem to find a way to get open. He does add value in the red zone. We just need to find a way to help him to get it to click between the 20s.

Our offensive line wasn't nearly as bad at run blocking as it was pass blocking.  I don't care what PFF says, if you watched there was definite movement on the line for Mixon to break through.  I am not saying Joe isn't a beast, but the line did help in the run game as did the safeties playing off the LOS.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(02-28-2019, 11:45 AM)muskiesfan Wrote: I am also in the minority as I liked the Ross pick. I really thought he could be the piece to the passing game that really set it off. Him posting the video to Twitter, giving up on routes, poor route running, and the like have soured me on him. I thought he was a much better route runner in college. He said himself that he needs to just play, so maybe it's all in his head. I still have some hope, but he needs to mature as well.

I'd be incredibly happy if he could turn into a receiver that gives us 500-600 yards and 5 TDs or more a year. As long as we keep AJ and Boyd around, that kind of production would be great. I get concerned that it seems like every time he sprints, he comes up limping. I don't know how to fix that other than using him differently and not just running verticals or sweeps. I think screens could be good to give him a chance in space, but that hasn't seemed to be in the team's thought process so far.

I'd definitely like to see Mixon and Bernard on the field together a lot more. If they can fix the OLine, there is a lot of potential on the offense.

Agreed, and I think specifically they need to address the RT position.  I know Redmond didn't grade out very well and had some costly penalties but I think with a full offseason under his belt and a new scheme, he could be pretty solid.  Hart was just awful in pass protection.  At least Dalton saw it coming.  

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

I am one of the biggest Ross defenders on here but Mixon needs to trust in the new HC's judgment. I want Ross here and i want to see that light come on but i am trusting in Zac's process. Ross just wasn't where he was supposed to be lots of times last year and i cannot defend him quitting on routes. If the light comes on and he plays with effort he could be great. But this is an if. Big one at that.

[fredtoast]

(02-28-2019, 08:22 AM)SHRacerX Wrote:   Have you ever watched how the Chiefs use Tyreek Hill?  

There are small, shifty, fast players coming out of college every year.  The reason they don't put up numbers like Hill is not because they are not used the same way.  It is because they do not have Hill's skills.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-28-2019, 02:03 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Wasn’t talking about you specifically. There are those in the fandom that seem like they’d rather be right, than root for him to succeed though. At least it seems that way to me.

It seems there are always a few players that people want to see fail.  I don't get it.  I hope Ross becomes what people have hopes of him becoming.  We need him to produce.  While I've been disappointed in him, I want to see him succeed.  Just makes the offense stronger.

[*Nately120*]

(02-28-2019, 04:02 PM)Wyche Wrote: It seems there are always a few players that people want to see fail.  I don't get it.  I hope Ross becomes what people have hopes of him becoming.  We need him to produce.  While I've been disappointed in him, I want to see him succeed.  Just makes the offense stronger.

I like having Ross around because when he's involved in the play there is a decent chance of something wacky happening.  He's like the Rex Grossman of WRs. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-28-2019, 04:02 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: It seems there are always a few players that people want to see fail.  I don't get it.  I hope Ross becomes what people have hopes of him becoming.  We need him to produce.  While I've been disappointed in him, I want to see him succeed.  Just makes the offense stronger.

Yeah, it is weird.

There are just some players that certain fans dislike more than others and Ross is one of them. I have had players that i didn't feel were cutting it and wanted to move on but i always wanted them to improve if they could. Ross has rare abilities and if the light comes on he could be very special and it would help the entire team.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-28-2019, 04:14 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, it is weird.

There are just some players that certain fans dislike more than others and Ross is one of them. I have had players that i didn't feel were cutting it and wanted to move on but i always wanted them to improve if they could. Ross has rare abilities and if the light comes on he could be very special and it would help the entire team.

Yep, I don't dislike the kid at all, nor any of our players really.  I often get upset at the team for not moving on when they should (Maualuga for example), but that isn't really on the player so much as the team.  Ross has been disappointing, it's up to him to make those gains he needs to make.  Same as it's up to guys like Burfict to get his ass in shape and play better if he returns.

[fredtoast]

(02-28-2019, 04:14 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, it is weird.

There are just some players that certain fans dislike more than others and Ross is one of them.

I have noticed that with first round picks some people get mad if we don't take who they want.  Then they just keep trashing the guy we took instead.  I think a lot of people were upset that we took Ross (or any WR) with that pick.

[*Nately120*]

(02-28-2019, 04:14 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, it is weird.

There are just some players that certain fans dislike more than others and Ross is one of them. I have had players that i didn't feel were cutting it and wanted to move on but i always wanted them to improve if they could. Ross has rare abilities and if the light comes on he could be very special and it would help the entire team.

Some people want Ross to fail, some people see Ross fail and blame the coaches and Dalton.  I'd wager there is some middle ground in there, but the guy has inspired lots of discussion, that's for sure.

The stalwart Ross defenders don't have Marvin and Lazor to blame this year, so if Ross doesn't take the next step I would assume Dalton is going to be under the wheels of the Rosswagon.

[McC]

(02-28-2019, 06:44 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Some people want Ross to fail, some people see Ross fail and blame the coaches and Dalton.  I'd wager there is some middle ground in there, but the guy has inspired lots of discussion, that's for sure.

The stalwart Ross defenders don't have Marvin and Lazor to blame this year, so if Ross doesn't take the next step I would assume Dalton is going to be under the wheels of the Rosswagon.

If he fails this year, you just have to mark him down as a failure.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-28-2019, 06:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I have noticed that with first round picks some people get mad if we don't take who they want.  Then they just keep trashing the guy we took instead.  I think a lot of people were upset that we took Ross (or any WR) with that pick.

Yeah, most wanted an O-lineman but it would of been a reach at that pick. We would of had to of traded down if the pick would of been a Lineman. I liked the Ross pick at the time myself. Thought we needed that speed opposite Green cause Boyd wasn't cutting it at the time. Happy Boyd has came along.

(02-28-2019, 06:44 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Some people want Ross to fail, some people see Ross fail and blame the coaches and Dalton.  I'd wager there is some middle ground in there, but the guy has inspired lots of discussion, that's for sure.

The stalwart Ross defenders don't have Marvin and Lazor to blame this year, so if Ross doesn't take the next step I would assume Dalton is going to be under the wheels of the Rosswagon.

Maybe so, but only if Dalton keeps under throwing him. Ross could of had a couple more TD's last year. Was in one of the earlier games in the season where Dalton underthrew Ross a couple of times, forget which game it was one of the under throws was a pick too.

Was willing to give Ross a bit of time but this is the year he needs to show his stuff or i might stop defending him.

Hopefully he works with Housh some more and Taylor and Callahan get the most out of him.

[Catmandude123]

(02-28-2019, 11:27 AM)muskiesfan Wrote: I tend to agree with you on a lot of things and I get what you're trying to say, but AB is a bad production comparison for Ross. They may be more similar in their attitudes/personality, but even before the draft I would've never thought of Ross as potential AB level.

I'm sure there is more the team could do to try and help Ross progress, but his ability to get injured may make them a little gun shy. It seems that when he truly tries to go full out, he always comes up lame. Honestly, using him sparingly seems like it may be the only way to keep him for a full season. I want the guy to breakout and perform well. I want him to be the receiver we all wish he could be, but he hasn't shown he can be anything remotely close to that.

Trading him for a 5th or lower seems like such a loss that I'd rather keep him and turn him into a special teamer if that's what it takes. Get some use and value out of him.

Ab was a back up to Hines Ward and was a sixth rounder. I believe that the number 9 overall pick is supposed to contribute more than 200 yds.

[*Nately120*]

(02-28-2019, 06:56 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Ab was a back up to Hines Ward and was a sixth rounder. I believe that the number 9 overall pick is supposed to contribute more than 200 yds.

But he caught 7 TDs.  TDs are a great way to validate any non #1 WR around here....well, one that isn't Terrel Owens.

[Catmandude123]

(02-28-2019, 06:58 PM)Nately120 Wrote: But he caught 7 TDs.  TDs are a great way to validate any non #1 WR around here....well, one that isn't Terrel Owens.

I hope Ross can be a different wr under Taylor. Stretching the defense makes everything work. If the line improves and gives Dalton more time there will hopefully be more big plays involving him. If he compares to AB he will get 11000 yards the next seven years.

[THE PISTONS]

(02-28-2019, 06:46 PM)McC Wrote: If he fails this year, you just have to mark him down as a failure.

I agree.

He's been a bust so far, but I'm against dumping him for a 4th Round pick. May as well keep him and see what happens.

That said, we need to add a viable player to compete for a 3rd WR spot. Maybe Tyrell Williams.

[*SHRacerX*]

(02-28-2019, 03:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: There are small, shifty, fast players coming out of college every year.  The reason they don't put up numbers like Hill is not because they are not used the same way.  It is because they do not have Hill's skills.

I guess that was my point.  I see Ross and Hill as similar skill sets.