Tobin squashed trade rumors

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-27-2019, 03:01 PM)Trademark Wrote:

Bengals exec Duke Tobin: “We’ve had NO discussion about John Ross ... that’s from ‘ready, fire, aim’ school of journalism. ...

“Fake news.”

— Eric Edholm (@Eric_Edholm) February 27, 2019

Zac Taylor says John Ross has a “very exciting future” with the #Bengals. “I can’t wait to get to work with him.”

— Fletcher Page (@FletcherPage) February 27, 2019

Great to hear

Makes me feel better, thanks. I want to see Ross become a great player here. So much talent to work with. If Dalton can get on the same page with Ross and not under throw him we could be looking at something very special. Just takes a lot of work when a WR has that type of speed and he hasn't been used right since he got here and still had 7 TD's last season.

[Bengalholic]

Brian Callahan on Ross:

"His production in the red zone was really interesting because, to me, you don’t look at him and think red zone target," Callahan said. "His speed kind of dictates you think he would be something other than that. But he was that for them. If we get seven touchdowns out of him again I think we’d all be really happy because that is really good production in this league. As far as where he fits outside the red zone there is a lot of places we kind final the ball for him."

"He’s got the ability to play outside, ability to play inside," Callahan said. "He’s talented. My job and our job on offense is to get the most out of him. It takes time to succeed in this league. It really does. It take years of preparation and playing to get over the hump. Sometimes there’s guys that have an impact immediately. Sometimes there’s players it takes one, two, three years to make that jump to be a professional. I’m excited about that. It’s a great challenge for us. It’s a great challenge for John to try to make that jump and have him be a productive part of our system."

[BengalChris]

(02-28-2019, 01:57 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Brian Callahan on Ross:

"His production in the red zone was really interesting because, to me, you don’t look at him and think red zone target," Callahan said. "His speed kind of dictates you think he would be something other than that. But he was that for them. If we get seven touchdowns out of him again I think we’d all be really happy because that is really good production in this league. As far as where he fits outside the red zone there is a lot of places we kind final the ball for him."

"He’s got the ability to play outside, ability to play inside," Callahan said. "He’s talented. My job and our job on offense is to get the most out of him. It takes time to succeed in this league. It really does. It take years of preparation and playing to get over the hump. Sometimes there’s guys that have an impact immediately. Sometimes there’s players it takes one, two, three years to make that jump to be a professional. I’m excited about that. It’s a great challenge for us. It’s a great challenge for John to try to make that jump and have him be a productive part of our system."

I think this is a correct estimation of Ross. Callahan clearly points out that Ross needs to make the jump. I agree.

I hope Ross takes on this challenge and wins at it!

Until he does make the jump though he'll remain in my category of player who hasn't.

 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-27-2019, 04:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If this were true then he would have been shut down in the red zone also.

I don't have an answer to argue in this case.  I just can't figure out how he could be effective in the red zone with the field shrunken and yet be worthless between the 20's where things should be easier for him.

Maybe he's just not where he's supposed to be, and it messes up the timing of the play?  Could be that the shorter field doesn't make it as easy to be in the wrong spot....there's not as much field to be messing up in.  I dunno, like you, it makes me scratch my head a bit.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-27-2019, 06:20 PM)McC Wrote: If a guy can get open in a confined space like the 4 yard line, it means he can get open.

In college(yeah, I know college different, not like pros), they almost never ran him deep down the sidelines.  Most of the deep balls they threw to him were in the middle of the field.   They threw him shallow and deep crossers, jet screens, bubble screens, quick slants, etc.

And he is as quick as he is fast.  He has the ability to make defenders look silly. But, as a Bengal, 90% of what he did was Go Long down the sidelines.  If you draft a guy based on what he did in college, why on earth would you never do any of those things?  It would be like drafting Carl Lawson cuz he rushes the passer and then never let him rush the passer.

It's also easier for the QB to hit those targets over the middle than it is to hit the deep ball down the sideline contested.  If the WR allows himself to be pushed to the boundary, it leaves little room for error.  Better to be safe and put it out of bounds than it is to put it short in a DBs hands.

I don't understand it either McC.  We hit Green, Boyd, and Eifert deep over the middle, but it seemed Ross rarely ran those routes.  When he did, he scored against Atlanta, and Dalton or Driskel missed him deep for a TD in another game.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-28-2019, 02:15 PM)BengalChris Wrote: I think this is a correct estimation of Ross. Callahan clearly points out that Ross needs to make the jump. I agree.

I hope Ross takes on this challenge and wins at it!

Until he does make the jump though he'll remain in my category of player who hasn't.

 

Agreed.  I really like what I hear from Callahan and Taylor.  I think they kept some good assistants too, maybe it sucks to lose Pollack, time will tell.  If they can make their vision a reality, we should have a very good offense.  Hopefully, these new defensive coaches can create a spark too.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-28-2019, 01:57 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Brian Callahan on Ross:

"His production in the red zone was really interesting because, to me, you don’t look at him and think red zone target," Callahan said. "His speed kind of dictates you think he would be something other than that. But he was that for them. If we get seven touchdowns out of him again I think we’d all be really happy because that is really good production in this league. As far as where he fits outside the red zone there is a lot of places we kind final the ball for him."

"He’s got the ability to play outside, ability to play inside," Callahan said. "He’s talented. My job and our job on offense is to get the most out of him. It takes time to succeed in this league. It really does. It take years of preparation and playing to get over the hump. Sometimes there’s guys that have an impact immediately. Sometimes there’s players it takes one, two, three years to make that jump to be a professional. I’m excited about that. It’s a great challenge for us. It’s a great challenge for John to try to make that jump and have him be a productive part of our system."

Great stuff Holic, i think Taylor and Callahan will know how to use Ross better than Lazor did. As McC said, why not use Ross like he was used in college when he was such a weapon? I understand why Callahan finds it interesting that Ross doesn't look like a red zone target but he always has been. Dude averaged 1 Touchdown every 5 catches at Washington.

[impactplaya]

the Bengals had issues all year connecting with the deep ball.
they didnt have completion in the air over 50 plus yards.
thats sad when you have Green Boyd and Ross.
the longest play all year in the air was a YAC
with Boyd for 49 yds.
of course Marvin proclaimed "we are going to get back to throwing the deep ball" yeah right.

[BengalChris]

(02-28-2019, 03:08 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Great stuff Holic, i think Taylor and Callahan will know how to use Ross better than Lazor did. As McC said, why not use Ross like he was used in college when he was such a weapon? I understand why Callahan finds it interesting that Ross doesn't look like a red zone target but he always has been. Dude averaged 1 Touchdown every 5 catches at Washington.

In college Ross was allowed to run uncontested into gaps in weak Pac 12 zone defenses. NFL defenses, even the worst of them, are miles ahead of anything the Pac 12 had the year Ross had his one big season.

[BobJones4980]

(02-28-2019, 12:24 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Actually, we've hit on a great deal of 4th rounders, in the past 18 years:

2001- Rudi Johnson
2002- Travis Dorsch (ugh)
2003- Weathersby, Jeremi Johnson
2004- Mattias Askew, Geathers, Stacy Andrews
2005- Ghiaciuc (ugh lol)
2006- Peko
2007- Marvin White
2008- Anthony Collins
2009- Luigs
2010- Geno, Roddrick Muckelroy
2011- Boling
2012- Orson Charles
2013- Sean Porter
2014- Bodine (ugh lol)
2015- Josh Shaw, Hardison
2016- Billings
2017- Lawson, Malone, Glasgow
2018- Mark Walton

25 players, in 18 years.

Positives:

Of those 25, 15 were multi-year starters/large contributors.

Of those 15 starters/contributors, 10 went on to have long, successful careers (even if they sucked lol, still had longer careers than the average).

Of those 10, 2 have been pro-bowlers (both with the team)

Of those 2, 1 is a Hall of Famer.

Negatives:

Of those 25, 7 played/lasted less than 2 years in the league.

Of the 15 starters/contributors, 4 sucked and were among the worst at their positions.

Of those 25, only 1 would be considered a, "bust."

Neutrals:

Of those 25, 9 are unknowns, due to current service time (may become positives)/career-ending injuries.

Of those 9, 4 had career-ending injuries, thus who knows how they would have done.

Overall, we definitely have been better than the league average has, for the 4th round; the two Cs (both noted love-children of PA) bring the overall body of work down a bit, but even with them, we got 2 starters for multiple seasons and plugged a hole, albeit terribly.

Yea but I wouldn't count just having a body on the field as a success, yea we got some good players but we don't really need to give them credit for drafting a guy and plugging him if he then played horribly.

Yea I think we have done solid but we are talking about a 2 in 25 chance at an above average player and this is from a team we are considering atleast average at drafting in the mid rounds. I would actually even take out the last 5 players because we just don't know yet, so we are still talking a 2 in 20 chance at getting an above average player.

So my point is why get a mid round pick for a guy going into his 3rd year which is the year that most WRs start to get it, especially with a new offensive minded coach that may actually be able to find ways to use him. Just don't think its worth giving up just yet for a 2 in 20 chance of getting someone potentially better when I think Ross has potential to be a very explosive 3rd WR. On top of that I still don't think we would even get a 4th so it doesn't really matter.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-28-2019, 03:34 PM)BengalChris Wrote: In college Ross was allowed to run uncontested into gaps in weak Pac 12 zone defenses. NFL defenses, even the worst of them, are miles ahead of anything the Pac 12 had the year Ross had his one big season.

True, he still made a certain first round CB look real silly in Adoree Jackson in that Pac 12...

We will just see how Taylor and Callahan use him, bet he will be much better this year as long as he can stay healthy and gain chemistry with Dalton. I think this is what has really held him back the most, needs that chemistry with the QB.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

I know ball security could be an issue, but I'd like to see this staff send him out to return kicks. If he goes out there and does well with it, it could really bolster his confidence perhaps. I dunno, just spitballing, as Erickson did a PHENOMENAL job last season on returns. Maybe let Ross do punts.

[McC]

(02-28-2019, 11:52 AM)muskiesfan Wrote: While I also wish that journalists would only report with reliable sources/credible information, it's just not going to happen. With the popularity of social media and the access to instant information, everyone wants to be first. In the race to be the first to break a story, a lot of times misinformation gets passed on as facts a lot of the time.

While I don't agree with it, I'd rather get accurate information later than inaccurate information immediately, that doesn't seem to be the common thought process among the masses.

I have to think a few doses of public humiliation would go a long way in cleaning up some of the nonsense.  But ESPN would never do that beacuse the current status quo is probably of their making, or at least exactly what they demand.

[Destro]

AJ Green is what I'd hope for a first round, top ten pick.
John Ross is what I'd expect from a 4th round pick.
I'd take Tyler Boyd any day over Ross.

[THE PISTONS]

(02-28-2019, 04:15 PM)Wyche Wrote: I know ball security could be an issue, but I'd like to see this staff send him out to return kicks.  If he goes out there and does well with it, it could really bolster his confidence perhaps.  I dunno, just spitballing, as Erickson did a PHENOMENAL job last season on returns.  Maybe let Ross do punts.

I think injuries are the big concern with having Ross on kickoffs. IF it wasn't for that, I'd be all for it.