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Ok, so first of all I have always been a big Andy Dalton supporter. I think he's a guy that you can win with in the NFL and I think he's overly criticized by many in the area. I think it's pretty ludicrous to consider taking a QB in first round (and did last year as well) with as many other glaring needs this team has. Andy Dalton should be the starting QB for the Bengals next year.
BUT...
The Arizona Cardinals seem eager to part with Rosen in order to take Kyler Murray #1 this year. Josh Rosen was a first round QB taken in a year filled to the brim with highly regarded QB talent - he went top 10 last year with the Cardinals moving up to grab him. Personally I don't think it's fair to call him a bust after one year playing for an awful team under an unproven (and promptly fired) head coach. There may very well be something there in my opinion... and you should be able to buy low in order to get him. No way can the Cardinals be expecting anyone to give them a first round pick for him, right? Maybe a team with a low pick in the first round, but how many of those teams need a QB? And even if, say, the Patriots wanted to groom him, will they even have that pick after the Kraft stuff is sorted out? And then instead of burning a 1st rounder on a QB you can maybe take the White kid at LB...
SO...
Why not try to grab a first round talent for non-first round picks? Talk to the Cardinals and if you can work it out, pull the trigger. Bring him in, get a guy with a high ceiling, and then sit him behind Dalton for a year giving him a chance to learn the NFL game and prepare himself for more fair shot than he ever got in Arizona. Two seasons from now (which is Dalton's contract year, I believe), you can give him every chance to win the job, and maybe he does just that and shows you that he's the QB of the future once he hits the field. Gotta figure he'd have a huge chip on his shoulder.
Thoughts? Yes, there are a lot of ifs and maybes there, but am I crazy to think that this is something the Bengals should at least kick the tires on?
I will freely admit to not having seen Rosen play all that often in college or for the Cardinals (though like I said, I give him some leeway there for being in an unwinnable situation).
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For the right price, it may not be a bad idea.
"Better send those refunds..."
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(02-28-2019, 05:45 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Ok, so first of all I have always been a big Andy Dalton supporter. I think he's a guy that you can win with in the NFL and I think he's overly criticized by many in the area. I think it's pretty ludicrous to consider taking a QB in first round (and did last year as well) with as many other glaring needs this team has. Andy Dalton should be the starting QB for the Bengals next year.
BUT...
The Arizona Cardinals seem eager to part with Rosen in order to take Kyler Murray #1 this year. Josh Rosen was a first round QB taken in a year filled to the brim with highly regarded QB talent - he went top 10 last year with the Cardinals moving up to grab him. Personally I don't think it's fair to call him a bust after one year playing for an awful team under an unproven (and promptly fired) head coach. There may very well be something there in my opinion... and you should be able to buy low in order to get him. No way can the Cardinals be expecting anyone to give them a first round pick for him, right? Maybe a team with a low pick in the first round, but how many of those teams need a QB? And even if, say, the Patriots wanted to groom him, will they even have that pick after the Kraft stuff is sorted out?
SO...
Why not try to grab a first round talent for non-first round picks? Talk to the Cardinals and if you can work it out, pull the trigger. Bring him in, get a guy with a high ceiling, and then sit him behind Dalton for a year giving him a chance to learn the NFL game and prepare himself for more fair shot than he ever got in Arizona. Two seasons from now (which is Dalton's contract year, I believe), you can give him every chance to win the job, and maybe he does just that and shows you that he's the QB of the future once he hits the field. Gotta figure he'd have a huge chip on his shoulder.
Thoughts? Yes, there are a lot of ifs and maybes there, but am I crazy to think that this is something the Bengals should at least kick the tires on?
I will freely admit to not having seen Rosen play all that often in college or for the Cardinals (though like I said, I give him some leeway there for being in an unwinnable situation).
I would think the biggest thing that would have to happen to make such a thing possible is being pretty active in FA and signing at least two starters. Otherwise, it would be a real sacrifice to give up what would almost have to be no worse than a second rounder with then needs we have.
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(02-28-2019, 05:48 PM)McC Wrote: I would think the biggest thing that would have to happen to make such a thing possible is being pretty active in FA and signing at least two starters. Otherwise, it would be a real sacrifice to give up what would almost have to be no worse than a second rounder with then needs we have.
You think the Cardinals are going to be able to get a first rounder for him? Because I can't see it happening, and it's the same thought process I had when the "Bengals are shopping John Ross" rumor was out there - what value do they have, really?
If the cost truly is a first rounder then yeah, I'd pass. But lower than that? I'm intrigued.
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(02-28-2019, 06:02 PM)NKURyan Wrote: You think the Cardinals are going to be able to get a first rounder for him? Because I can't see it happening, and it's the same thought process I had when the "Bengals are shopping John Ross" rumor was out there - what value do they have, really?
If the cost truly is a first rounder then yeah, I'd pass. But lower than that? I'm intrigued.
I'm sure they'll ask for a first. Don't know if they'll get one but you'd think they'd get no worse than a second. I'm like you in that I didn't see him play last year, so I'm not too informed on it. But he is a QB with a good arm and he was an early pick. I would be interested to know what the rest of the league thinks of him.
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Even if he never became a starter he would be a great value as a backup. Arizona paid him about $11 million of his $17 million contract last year. So he would only cost us about $2 million a year.
A lot of people don't realize how important the #2 QB can be. If Andy is lost for the season it might not make any difference, but if he only misses a few weeks then the back up QB could be the difference between making the playoffs and not.
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(02-28-2019, 06:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Even if he never became a starter he would be a great value as a backup. Arizona paid him about $11 million of his $17 million contract last year. So he would only cost us about $2 million a year.
A lot of people don't realize how important the #2 QB can be. If Andy is lost for the season it might not make any difference, but if he only misses a few weeks then the back up QB could be the difference between making the playoffs and not.
The Eagles certainly proved that to be true.
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Rosen is going to get a handful of concussions and then become a politician ala Heath Schuler. Bank on it.
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(02-28-2019, 05:48 PM)McC Wrote: I would think the biggest thing that would have to happen to make such a thing possible is being pretty active in FA and signing at least two starters. Otherwise, it would be a real sacrifice to give up what would almost have to be no worse than a second rounder with then needs we have.
I like the idea,go get the guy. I think he is a winner here.
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(02-28-2019, 05:45 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Ok, so first of all I have always been a big Andy Dalton supporter. I think he's a guy that you can win with in the NFL and I think he's overly criticized by many in the area. I think it's pretty ludicrous to consider taking a QB in first round (and did last year as well) with as many other glaring needs this team has. Andy Dalton should be the starting QB for the Bengals next year.
BUT...
The Arizona Cardinals seem eager to part with Rosen in order to take Kyler Murray #1 this year. Josh Rosen was a first round QB taken in a year filled to the brim with highly regarded QB talent - he went top 10 last year with the Cardinals moving up to grab him. Personally I don't think it's fair to call him a bust after one year playing for an awful team under an unproven (and promptly fired) head coach. There may very well be something there in my opinion... and you should be able to buy low in order to get him. No way can the Cardinals be expecting anyone to give them a first round pick for him, right? Maybe a team with a low pick in the first round, but how many of those teams need a QB? And even if, say, the Patriots wanted to groom him, will they even have that pick after the Kraft stuff is sorted out? And then instead of burning a 1st rounder on a QB you can maybe take the White kid at LB...
SO...
Why not try to grab a first round talent for non-first round picks? Talk to the Cardinals and if you can work it out, pull the trigger. Bring him in, get a guy with a high ceiling, and then sit him behind Dalton for a year giving him a chance to learn the NFL game and prepare himself for more fair shot than he ever got in Arizona. Two seasons from now (which is Dalton's contract year, I believe), you can give him every chance to win the job, and maybe he does just that and shows you that he's the QB of the future once he hits the field. Gotta figure he'd have a huge chip on his shoulder.
Thoughts? Yes, there are a lot of ifs and maybes there, but am I crazy to think that this is something the Bengals should at least kick the tires on?
I will freely admit to not having seen Rosen play all that often in college or for the Cardinals (though like I said, I give him some leeway there for being in an unwinnable situation).
Definately wouldn't be against this, pretty good idea honestly. Rosen was about the most pro ready QB in that class besides Mayfield in my opinion too. He is smart and was accurate in college which is what Taylor says he needs in his QB. If we could get Rosen for a 2nd rounder i don't think it would be a bad idea but we would have to get atleast one Lineman in FA or it won't matter who the QB is. Whoever it is will need protection.
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I saw a few of their games and to be honest, wasn't really impressed by him. I will admit though he pretty much was running for his life behind their line.
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(02-28-2019, 05:45 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Ok, so first of all I have always been a big Andy Dalton supporter. I think he's a guy that you can win with in the NFL and I think he's overly criticized by many in the area. I think it's pretty ludicrous to consider taking a QB in first round (and did last year as well) with as many other glaring needs this team has. Andy Dalton should be the starting QB for the Bengals next year.
BUT...
The Arizona Cardinals seem eager to part with Rosen in order to take Kyler Murray #1 this year. Josh Rosen was a first round QB taken in a year filled to the brim with highly regarded QB talent - he went top 10 last year with the Cardinals moving up to grab him. Personally I don't think it's fair to call him a bust after one year playing for an awful team under an unproven (and promptly fired) head coach. There may very well be something there in my opinion... and you should be able to buy low in order to get him. No way can the Cardinals be expecting anyone to give them a first round pick for him, right? Maybe a team with a low pick in the first round, but how many of those teams need a QB? And even if, say, the Patriots wanted to groom him, will they even have that pick after the Kraft stuff is sorted out? And then instead of burning a 1st rounder on a QB you can maybe take the White kid at LB...
SO...
Why not try to grab a first round talent for non-first round picks? Talk to the Cardinals and if you can work it out, pull the trigger. Bring him in, get a guy with a high ceiling, and then sit him behind Dalton for a year giving him a chance to learn the NFL game and prepare himself for more fair shot than he ever got in Arizona. Two seasons from now (which is Dalton's contract year, I believe), you can give him every chance to win the job, and maybe he does just that and shows you that he's the QB of the future once he hits the field. Gotta figure he'd have a huge chip on his shoulder.
Thoughts? Yes, there are a lot of ifs and maybes there, but am I crazy to think that this is something the Bengals should at least kick the tires on?
I will freely admit to not having seen Rosen play all that often in college or for the Cardinals (though like I said, I give him some leeway there for being in an unwinnable situation).
Problem with that is his contract will be pretty hefty for sitting the bench.
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(02-28-2019, 07:00 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I saw a few of their games and to be honest, wasn't really impressed by him. I will admit though he pretty much was running for his life behind their line.
well that wouldn't change much here.... unless we do real good the next 2 months
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Even if the Cardinals want to move on from the guy, I doubt the best offer they'd get would be from Mike Brown for a backup QB. I will say that the successful teams that got their offensive-minded young guys also have QBs on rookie deals, and the guy who was stuck with a middling vet (crazy eyes in Miami) was the failure of the group...so I can't be 100% down on this notion.
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(02-28-2019, 07:00 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I saw a few of their games and to be honest, wasn't really impressed by him. I will admit though he pretty much was running for his life behind their line.
And running ain't exactly his thing. That much I do know about him.
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So, basically we'd be trading away multiple picks to get a backup QB?
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(02-28-2019, 07:04 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Problem with that is his contract will be pretty hefty for sitting the bench.
Very true, but just look at it as sitting your first round QB for a year behind a backup. It's worked for KC, it's worked for Baltimore, and it's worked for us before.
I do agree they'd need to find o-line help... but are they really going to turn a 2nd or 3rd rounder into a starting lineman? Maybe, but maybe not...
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(02-28-2019, 07:26 PM)Benton Wrote: So, basically we'd be trading away multiple picks to get a backup QB?
Well, hopefully not. The idea (as spelled out in the first post) is that maybe you're getting the top 10 QB he was drafted as and that you're just taking advantage of the Cardinals giving up on him too soon based purely on the whims of Cliff freakin' Kingsbury.
The Cardinals can dream of getting a first rounder all day, or of getting multiple picks, but who's to say that is what the actual market it? Maybe it only costs a second rounder, who knows.
Always buy low. Or at the very least look to see how low low is. There might be a steal to be had here.
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So, the Cardinals spend a 1st round pick on the guy, and then are ready to kick him to the curb after just one season, and they expect to get a 1st round pick for him??
That makes no sense at all.
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(02-28-2019, 07:04 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Problem with that is his contract will be pretty hefty for sitting the bench.
His contract is peanuts. Arizona already paid him about $11 million of his $17 million contract. we would get him 3 years $6 million.
BTW I don't think there is any way Arizona will trade him away. They won't get a high pick for him.
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