Josh Rosen

[Andy2AJ]

As crazy as it is to even entertain the idea, what are you giving up? I sure as hell am not giving up the 11th pick. Maybe a 3rd and a couple 6 round guys but that would mean we would have to be active in FA for the first time in a long time. If they are willing to part ways at a cheap price then by all means,Bhutan there are other teams ahead of us that need a qb, that will gladly give up middle of the pack picks for Rosen who didn’t get much of s chance to shine this past year

[Bilbo Saggins]

I'd take Rosen for a third.  Dalton tends to do his best when he has a halfway decent backup breathing down his neck.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

Hehehe..

Absolutely not.

Sure, he needs work and to write him off after one year is a bit premature, but after watching him in college and last year, not to mention his shitty attitude, I wouldn't touch Rosen with a 10 foot pole.

He was god-awful last year.

[Big Boss]

No thank you.

[*ochocincos*]

This upcoming FA starting in 1.5 weeks should be a clear indicator whether the Bengals want to try to win now or build for the future.
If it's the latter, I'm in favor of trading for Rosen and trading away Dalton.

[PV Bengal]

(03-01-2019, 02:59 AM)TheUberHuber Wrote: I agree with your premise here i just think we have way too many holes to fill on this roster to give up a high draft pick for a backup qb. If we didnt have so many glaring needs i would be all for it.

Also, to address #2, the bengals are batting pretty well at picking qbs lately. Palmer then dalton in the second. 

We have more holes to fill than a pegboard ...

We need starters for ... RG, RT, TE, 2 LBers (who can run, cover and tackle) AND we need a few more quality backups.

[Hammerstripes]

(02-28-2019, 05:45 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Ok, so first of all I have always been a big Andy Dalton supporter. I think he's a guy that you can win with in the NFL and I think he's overly criticized by many in the area. I think it's pretty ludicrous to consider taking a QB in first round (and did last year as well) with as many other glaring needs this team has. Andy Dalton should be the starting QB for the Bengals next year.

BUT...

The Arizona Cardinals seem eager to part with Rosen in order to take Kyler Murray #1 this year. Josh Rosen was a first round QB taken in a year filled to the brim with highly regarded QB talent - he went top 10 last year with the Cardinals moving up to grab him. Personally I don't think it's fair to call him a bust after one year playing for an awful team under an unproven (and promptly fired) head coach. There may very well be something there in my opinion... and you should be able to buy low in order to get him. No way can the Cardinals be expecting anyone to give them a first round pick for him, right? Maybe a team with a low pick in the first round, but how many of those teams need a QB? And even if, say, the Patriots wanted to groom him, will they even have that pick after the Kraft stuff is sorted out? And then instead of burning a 1st rounder on a QB you can maybe take the White kid at LB...

SO...

Why not try to grab a first round talent for non-first round picks? Talk to the Cardinals and if you can work it out, pull the trigger. Bring him in, get a guy with a high ceiling, and then sit him behind Dalton for a year giving him a chance to learn the NFL game and prepare himself for more fair shot than he ever got in Arizona. Two seasons from now (which is Dalton's contract year, I believe), you can give him every chance to win the job, and maybe he does just that and shows you that he's the QB of the future once he hits the field. Gotta figure he'd have a huge chip on his shoulder.

Thoughts? Yes, there are a lot of ifs and maybes there, but am I crazy to think that this is something the Bengals should at least kick the tires on?

I will freely admit to not having seen Rosen play all that often in college or for the Cardinals (though like I said, I give him some leeway there for being in an unwinnable situation).

I definitely think that the Cardinals could ask for a 1st rounder for him.  It's not like he's been in the league for 3 years and has stunk it up.

That being said, IF the Cardinals started shopping him, most teams would probably low-ball them as they know that they are taking a QB at #1.

[NKURyan]

(03-01-2019, 02:59 AM)TheUberHuber Wrote: I agree with your premise here i just think we have way too many holes to fill on this roster to give up a high draft pick for a backup qb. If we didnt have so many glaring needs i would be all for it.

Also, to address #2, the bengals are batting pretty well at picking qbs lately. Palmer then dalton in the second. 

They've batted well on QBs taken high, but not so much at grabbing these guys in later rounds... if people think they can find a backup with a late round pick hoping for him to bloom into a potential starter, I'm skeptical that it will pay off. A lot of people thought McCarron would be that guy and he's proven not to be.

I don't think I'd give up a high draft pick either... but I'd at least be looking into how high a pick we're really talking about here.

I'll also concede that even giving up a 2nd or 3rd rounder is a bit of a risk just because that's where the Bengals tend to do their best work.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-01-2019, 12:46 AM)NKURyan Wrote: As for the argument that the Bengals have more pressing needs than QB... I certainly agree, but Andy's contract doesn't last forever. What are you going to do?
1) Re-sign an older Dalton in a few years, probably at a much higher rate than he's currently signed for (based on the market)?
2) Roll the dice and draft a QB high the year Dalton leaves, possibly resulting in rookie struggles or a complete miss on the pick?
3) Take a QB after the first round in the draft, convince yourself that it might actually work out, only to realize later that they almost never do?
4) Plan for the future NOW and start working towards not having to do either #1, #2, or #3 if you don't have to.

...because as big of an Andy Dalton fan as I am (and I really am, I love the guy), I'm going with option #4. And, like others have pointed out, it gives you a viable backup option that the Bengals just don't have on the roster at the moment.

Nowhere have I said they should sell the farm for this. Nowhere have I said they should give up multiple picks. I think they'd be nuts to give up a first rounder unless they somehow ended up with an extra pick somehow. That said, the Bengals should at least look into what the Cardinals want and what they're actually being offered. If a few months go by and he ends up going for something stupid like a 3rd rounder, we're going to kick ourselves - especially if it's to the Pats or any of those other teams that always, always, ALWAYS make a killing on these deals.

I agree with you but for this to happen the O-line and LB's HAVE to be taken care of in FA.

If we do this, we can try and do what you are suggesting...

[TKUHL]

(02-28-2019, 05:45 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Ok, so first of all I have always been a big Andy Dalton supporter. I think he's a guy that you can win with in the NFL and I think he's overly criticized by many in the area. I think it's pretty ludicrous to consider taking a QB in first round (and did last year as well) with as many other glaring needs this team has. Andy Dalton should be the starting QB for the Bengals next year.

BUT...

The Arizona Cardinals seem eager to part with Rosen in order to take Kyler Murray #1 this year. Josh Rosen was a first round QB taken in a year filled to the brim with highly regarded QB talent - he went top 10 last year with the Cardinals moving up to grab him. Personally I don't think it's fair to call him a bust after one year playing for an awful team under an unproven (and promptly fired) head coach. There may very well be something there in my opinion... and you should be able to buy low in order to get him. No way can the Cardinals be expecting anyone to give them a first round pick for him, right? Maybe a team with a low pick in the first round, but how many of those teams need a QB? And even if, say, the Patriots wanted to groom him, will they even have that pick after the Kraft stuff is sorted out? And then instead of burning a 1st rounder on a QB you can maybe take the White kid at LB...

SO...

Why not try to grab a first round talent for non-first round picks? Talk to the Cardinals and if you can work it out, pull the trigger. Bring him in, get a guy with a high ceiling, and then sit him behind Dalton for a year giving him a chance to learn the NFL game and prepare himself for more fair shot than he ever got in Arizona. Two seasons from now (which is Dalton's contract year, I believe), you can give him every chance to win the job, and maybe he does just that and shows you that he's the QB of the future once he hits the field. Gotta figure he'd have a huge chip on his shoulder.

Thoughts? Yes, there are a lot of ifs and maybes there, but am I crazy to think that this is something the Bengals should at least kick the tires on?

I will freely admit to not having seen Rosen play all that often in college or for the Cardinals (though like I said, I give him some leeway there for being in an unwinnable situation).

Why? So he can play on an aweful team with an unproven coach again? That was your words.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-28-2019, 08:48 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah...you don't give up on him after Year 1. You keep him and develop him.

Then IF he and Murray develop...you trade Rosen for a lot.

Like Jimmy Johnson did with Walsh and Aikman......  

[THE PISTONS]

(03-01-2019, 06:09 PM)Wyche Wrote: Like Jimmy Johnson did with Walsh and Aikman......  

It's really tough when you switch coaches with a rookie QB...and the new coach wants to bring in their own QB.

Honestly, Taylor won't say it...but I'm sure he'd love to bring in a new QB. That said, we likely have way too many other needs to go QB in the 1st Round.

[Bengalitis]

Every QB needs competition from within to play like a monster. In the NFL, the QB is still the untouchable position. About time we bring someone competitive to lit up Dalton, instead of just outright replace him like the ravens did. Thats a bad example of doing things.

[BengalChris]

(03-01-2019, 08:57 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: Every QB needs competition from within to play like a monster. In the NFL, the QB is still the untouchable position.  About time we bring someone competitive to lit up Dalton, instead of just outright replace him like the ravens did. Thats a bad example of doing things.

Ozzie Newsome destroyed that team with the Jackson pick. Their defense cannot win games all by itself and that's basically how they'll be playing. Teams will load the box, stop the run and smoother the Ravens' offense.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-01-2019, 10:09 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Ozzie Newsome destroyed that team with the Jackson pick. Their defense cannot win games all by itself and that's basically how they'll be playing. Teams will load the box, stop the run and smoother the Ravens' offense.

You'd think...but they had success last year...especially against us with Jackson.

[McC]

(03-01-2019, 10:13 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: You'd think...but they had success last year...especially against us with Jackson.

They were golden right up until the Chargers unmasked them.  

[BengalChris]

(03-01-2019, 10:13 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: You'd think...but they had success last year...especially against us with Jackson.

McC beat me to it, but they can be shut down. How can they adjust when the running game is erased? They can't even bring in Flacco.

(03-01-2019, 11:14 PM)McC Wrote: They were golden right up until the Chargers unmasked them.  

^^ This. And they aren't going to turn Jackson into a good passer before their fans and owner put an end to the experiment.

[McC]

(03-01-2019, 11:30 PM)BengalChris Wrote: McC beat me to it, but they can be shut down. How can they adjust when the running game is erased? They can't even bring in Flacco.


^^ This. And they aren't going to turn Jackson into a good passer before their fans and owner put an end to the experiment.

Their situation last year was eerily similar to the Mike Shanahan/RGIII  Redskins.  Two rookie QB's who could run like the wind, two HC's desperate to hold onto their jobs, willing to do anything and everything to make it to the playoffs. 

Remember when we played the Skins that year and they were running the damn triple option against us?  And one of our LB's, Manny Lawson maybe, putting a monster hit on RGIII.  Griffin barely made it to the end of the year and then never did a thing after that year, if I remember right. And he was/is a better passer than Jackson. 

It's like the Wildcat offense--brilliant idea to win some games, maybe even have a good year, but not sustainable and ends up being relegated to an occasional wrinkle to throw at a defense.

But hey, it got Harbaugh an extension, so, mission accomplished.  Like you said, though, now they don't even have Flacco to being in any more.  Now, they are gonna sink or swim with Jackson.

[BengalChris]

(03-02-2019, 12:15 AM)McC Wrote: Their situation last year was eerily similar to the Mike Shanahan/RGIII  Redskins.  Two rookie QB's who could run like the wind, two HC's desperate to hold onto their jobs, willing to do anything and everything to make it to the playoffs. 

Remember when we played the Skins that year and they were running the damn triple option against us?  And one of our LB's, Manny Lawson maybe, putting a monster hit on RGIII.  Griffin barely made it to the end of the year and then never did a thing after that year, if I remember right. And he was/is a better passer than Jackson. 

It's like the Wildcat offense--brilliant idea to win some games, maybe even have a good year, but not sustainable and ends up being relegated to an occasional wrinkle to throw at a defense.

But hey, it got Harbaugh an extension, so, mission accomplished.  Like you said, though, now they don't even have Flacco to being in any more.  Now, they are gonna sink or swim with Jackson.

Remember it well. Cousins ended up being the winner in all that.

[mallorian69]

(03-01-2019, 08:51 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It's really tough when you switch coaches with a rookie QB...and the new coach wants to bring in their own QB.

Honestly, Taylor won't say it...but I'm sure he'd love to bring in a new QB. That said, we likely have way too many other needs to go QB in the 1st Round.

Actually I think the biggest reason ZT got the job was because he was willing to commit to AD. I personally think they were going to go with Eric B but he either flat out told them he wanted a new QB or at the very least wouldn't commit to AD. Now I want to say I have no real information that this is what happened just the feeling I got after ZT's first presser.