This team needs to tank

[Gamma Ray Tan]

(03-14-2019, 03:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 1.  Better drafting

2.  Better player development.

3.  Smart free agent signings (not BIGGEST free agent signings)

4.  Better coaching.


How do you think teams get better?

So.....better players.....basically?

[fredtoast]

(03-14-2019, 03:04 PM)Gamma Ray Tan Wrote: So.....better players.....basically?

No.  Better coaching and player development which also includes coaching.  The Rams made a quantum leap improvement in their QB production from '17 to '18 without bringing in a new QB.

Of course better players are important, but since there is a salary cap it is important to make "smart" free agent choices instead of just signing the biggest name players who will blow your cap if they bust.

So let me ask you again.  How do YOU think a team gets better?

[McC]

(03-14-2019, 02:46 PM)Gamma Ray Tan Wrote: So you agree the Patriots had better players than the Bengals. It sounds like you don’t believe that the talent level of players ultimately dictates wins and loses and it doesn’t matter how GOOD players are but only that you HAVE players.

I never said anything close to that.  I didn't say better payers never win, just that better players don't always win.

Let me put it this way--Belichick would have won more than 6 games with our roster last year and Marvin would never have won the SB with theirs.

The level of coaching matters A LOT.  Of course, players matter A LOT.  A higher level of coaching can overcome a lower level of talent and vice versa.  But to say all you need is the best players is a great over simplification.  If it was the whole truth, upsets would never happen.

[Gamma Ray Tan]

(03-14-2019, 03:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No.  Better coaching and player development which also includes coaching.

So you are saying that the talent level of a player has absolutely no bearing on his performance and the outcomes of games? Just curious to see where you’re going with this. It actually explains a lot.

[Gamma Ray Tan]

(03-14-2019, 03:15 PM)McC Wrote: I never said anything close to that.  I didn't say better payers never win, just that better players don't always win.

Let me put it this way--Belichick would have won more than 6 games with our roster last year and Marvin would never have won the SB with theirs.

The level of coaching matters A LOT.  Of course, players matter A LOT.  A higher level of coaching can overcome a lower level of talent and vice versa.  But to say all you need is the best players is a great over simplification.  If it was the whole truth, upsets would never happen.

Who would you rather have at QB...right now? Patrick Mahomes or Andy Dalton?

[fredtoast]

(03-14-2019, 03:17 PM)Gamma Ray Tan Wrote: So you are saying that the talent level of a player has absolutely no bearing on his performance and the outcomes of games? Just curious to see where you’re going with this. It actually explains a lot.

You can't read if you think that is what I said.  How could "better drafting" be important if the talent level of the player makes no difference.

I don't know what type of game you are trying to play but I am finished until you want to discuss what I actually said.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

So you’re saying in 2016 - 2018 the Bengals haven’t been tanking?

[McC]

(03-14-2019, 03:19 PM)Gamma Ray Tan Wrote: Who would you rather have at QB...right now? Patrick Mahomes or Andy Dalton?

Seriously?  We're done here.

[Joelist]

Coaching includes scheme. And we have been VERY weak schematically of late. The systems we roll out on both offense and defense don't fit the players and the results are predictable.

One of the first things Taylor said when he came in was the schemes would be tailored to what the players do well. That right there will be a big change. For example, our line (such as it is) is FAR better at drive blocking than zone blocking. Also our corners and safeties are much better in man coverage than in zones. Set your players up to succeed.

What is the secret of the Patriots? Really it is that they tailor what they do to the players they run out there VERY well.

[Gamma Ray Tan]

(03-14-2019, 03:22 PM)McC Wrote: Seriously?  We're done here.

That's what I thought

[fredtoast]

(03-14-2019, 03:20 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: So you’re saying in 2016 - 2018 the Bengals haven’t been tanking?

Don't know who this is directed at, but I don't think anyoine thinks they have been tanking.

Thy have not gotten rid of any high priced veterans for younger players or more draft picks.  Instead they have given contract extensions to Burfict, Atkins, Dunlop, Bernard, and Kirkpatrick.  And last year they brought in the league 8th highest paid OT and a MLB who was in the top half of the league in pay for his position.

Are you saying they have been tanking from '16-'18?  If so what makes you think this?  What moves have they made that makes you think they are tanking.

[McC]

(03-14-2019, 03:25 PM)Gamma Ray Tan Wrote: That's what I thought

Always believed answering idiotic questions can make me idiotic so I just don't.  You want to have an actual conversation, I'm there.  But that's not what you want at all.

[McC]

(03-14-2019, 03:25 PM)Gamma Ray Tan Wrote: That's what I thought

I see no evidence of that at all.

[Gamma Ray Tan]

(03-14-2019, 03:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You can't read if you think that is what I said.  How could "better drafting" be important if the talent level of the player makes no difference.

I don't know what type of game you are trying to play but I am finished until you want to discuss what I actually said.

I said basically better players...you said , No ... Continue

[Gamma Ray Tan]

(03-14-2019, 03:30 PM)McC Wrote: I see no evidence of that at all.

Do you realize, you backed yourself into a corner  so much that you can't even admit Patrick Mahomes is better than Andy Dalton! ...STOP THE MADNESS!

[fredtoast]

(03-14-2019, 03:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Of course better players are important, 

(03-14-2019, 03:17 PM)Gamma Ray Tan Wrote: So you are saying that the talent level of a player has absolutely no bearing on his performance and the outcomes of games? 

[McC]

(03-14-2019, 03:35 PM)Gamma Ray Tan Wrote: Do you realize, you backed yourself into a corner  so much that you can't even admit Patrick Mahomes is better than Andy Dalton! ...STOP THE MADNESS!

Put the pipe down.  You keep making less and less sense.

[fredtoast]

(03-14-2019, 03:35 PM)Gamma Ray Tan Wrote: Do you realize, you backed yourself into a corner  so much that you can't even admit Patrick Mahomes is better than Andy Dalton! ...STOP THE MADNESS!

Patrick Mahomes has nothing to do with anything we are discussing.  WTF are you even talking about?

[TheUberHuber]

(03-14-2019, 12:07 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Dalton in 8 years has proven he is not clutch.  I don’t care what stupid stats you throw at me I know what I see and I see a guy who can’t complete a 3rd down when it matters.  A guy that throws the ball away on 4th down.  A guy that gets sacked for a safety in overtime.   It’s time to move.

The atlanta game throw to green from the 20 yard line for the win was pretty clutch.

[*PhilHos*]

(03-14-2019, 03:39 PM)TheUberHuber Wrote: The atlanta game throw to green from the 20 yard line for the win was pretty clutch.

Don't bother. The guy openly stated he doesn't care what the facts say.