Can we just take a step back and look at the roster?

[WeezyBengal]

And to everyone saying that "this team isn't better or worse than last year, its basically the same roster"...

Well OK...the same roster has been rolled out there for the past 5 frigging seasons without results. Last years results being especially pathetic. Either upgrade it, blow it up, or expect the same results.

I mean seriously, we really think the signings of Preston Brown, Bobby Hart, B.W. Webb, and John Miller coupled with another year of an aging core is going to turn this thing around?

Give me a break.

[Luvnit2]

(03-18-2019, 11:53 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: The frustration is is that this team has OBVIOUS holes and the front office refuses to do anything against their standard approach to significantly upgrade it.

The offensive line was/is horrible and they bring back guys like Hart and plug in an average/below average guys like John Miller.

They lose Dennard and bring in B.W. Webb.

They bring back Preston Brown as a linebacker and dont upgrade the other linebacker positions.

Our weaknesses last year were linebacker and offensive line. Everyone knows it and this team will go into the draft and this year with the same weaknesses or pieces from the draft that are completely unknown.

The weaknesses at linebacker and offensive line can single handedly destroy a season not matter how good the rest of your roster is. We saw it last year and this year is shaping up to be no different based on their off season activity.

I think the FO had a choice and decided not to gut the team and rebuild by trading AD, AJ, Geno and Dunlap. I look back at 2018 and the team was derailed by major injuries, more so on offense than defense. I think the team needs to focus on defense (LB or stud DT) with first pick. The defense struggled from game #1. You can't have the worst defense in the NFL and above average offense and win.

The OL situation, they are making moves to get better bringing in Miller at guard. The new HC looked hard at Hart, he thinks he will improve. Who am I to question the new HC? Taylor's long term job security relies on decisions he makes and will make with the roster and playing time. Let's hope he is right since they are not unloading and rebuilding any time soon.

[Luvnit2]

(03-18-2019, 12:00 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: And to everyone saying that "this team isn't better or worse than last year, its basically the same roster"...

Well OK...the same roster has been rolled out there for the past 5 frigging seasons without results. Last years results being especially pathetic. Either upgrade it, blow it up, or expect the same results.

I mean seriously, we really think the signings of Preston Brown, Bobby Hart, B.W. Webb, and John Miller couple with another year of an aging core are going to turn this thing around?

Give me a break.

You are forgetting 2 draft picks in top 42 and 3 in top 75 too. Also, it is only March so long way to go until final roster is formed.

[WeezyBengal]

(03-18-2019, 12:05 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I think the FO had a choice and decided not to gut the team and rebuild by trading AD, AJ, Geno and Dunlap. I look back at 2018 and the team was derailed by major injuries, more so on offense than defense. I think the team needs to focus on defense (LB or stud DT) with first pick. The defense struggled from game #1. You can't have the worst defense in the NFL and above average offense and win.

The OL situation, they are making moves to get better bringing in Miller at guard. The new HC looked hard at Hart, he thinks he will improve. Who am I to question the new HC? Taylor's long term job security relies on decisions he makes and will make with the roster and playing time. Let's hope he is right since they are not unloading and rebuilding any time soon.

If they aren't going to rebuild then they need to bring in quality guys via free agency or trade to plug holes (much like they did with Glenn last year, that was a solid move). 

This team has too many holes on it going into the draft/season. The Bengals aren't taking an active approach to getting better. You can't sit here and say that as of right now that the linebackers and offensive line is better than last year...hell, it may end up being worse. 

[WeezyBengal]

(03-18-2019, 12:06 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: You are forgetting 2 draft picks in top 42 and 3 in top 75 too. Also, it is only March so long way to go until final roster is formed.

Relying on players from the draft to single handedly turn so many positions around in year 1 is a good way to be a bad organization. 

In my opinion a better strategy is to fill one or two holes from quality, proven players via trade or free agency then use the draft to supplement the other needs.

Basically, it's hard to just count on the draft to turn this team around from average to great.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-18-2019, 12:00 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: And to everyone saying that "this team isn't better or worse than last year, its basically the same roster"...

Well OK...the same roster has been rolled out there for the past 5 frigging seasons without results. Last years results being especially pathetic. Either upgrade it, blow it up, or expect the same results.

I mean seriously, we really think the signings of Preston Brown, Bobby Hart, B.W. Webb, and John Miller couple with another year of an aging core are going to turn this thing around?

Give me a break.

You're right, the team is basically the same as last year. In our eyes, that's a 6-10 team that might have a few more wins if they stay healthy. Not what I would call a true contender.
The Bengals, meanwhile, might look at it and say, "Yes, it's about the same team last year. The one who started off 4-1 before injuries started building up." They might be thinking they can win with their current roster and just need to improve the depth, which can come through the draft.

[WeezyBengal]

(03-18-2019, 12:19 PM)ochocincos Wrote: You're right, the team is basically the same as last year. In our eyes, that's a 6-10 team that might have a few more wins if they stay healthy. Not what I would call a true contender.
The Bengals, meanwhile, might look at it and say, "Yes, it's about the same team last year. The one who started off 4-1 before injuries started building up." They might be thinking they can win with their current roster and just need to improve the depth, which can come through the draft.

All good points, but wasn't this same team relatively healthy in one way or another in 2016 and 2017? Those teams won 6 and 7 games. Granted both of those teams added and lost quality pieces along the way. 

I'm sorry, but parts of this roster just reek of mediocrity or below average play and the organization just wont upgrade it. So until then, im expecting the same results. Average. 

[fredtoast]

(03-18-2019, 12:00 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Well OK...the same roster has been rolled out there for the past 5 frigging seasons

 

Yeah, right.

[Hoofhearted]

(03-18-2019, 12:11 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: If they aren't going to rebuild then they need to bring in quality guys via free agency or trade to plug holes (much like they did with Glenn last year, that was a solid move). 

This team has too many holes on it going into the draft/season. The Bengals aren't taking an active approach to getting better. You can't sit here and say that as of right now that the linebackers and offensive line is better than last year...hell, it may end up being worse. 

There's two things I've learned from this front office over the years:

They don't want to go back to the 90's.
They don't want to win a SB.

So I highly doubt they go thru a rebuild unless it's 100% necessary, similar to firing ML for ZT. That is the only reason I see them sticking with the same way of doing business year after year, after year. Maybe the second point changes after this year (people can change), but after them resigning ML this last go-round, it was set in stone. The ZT hiring was done out of necessity. 

[Luvnit2]

(03-18-2019, 12:29 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: All good points, but wasn't this same team relatively healthy in one way or another in 2016 and 2017? Those teams won 6 and 7 games. Granted both of those teams added and lost quality pieces along the way. 

I'm sorry, but parts of this roster just reek of mediocrity or below average play and the organization just wont upgrade it. So until then, im expecting the same results. Average. 

I am not sure on overall health other than I know Burfict was injured and suspended a lot. AJ Green missed 6 or 7 full games in 2017. Eifert we all know was hurt both years as well.

The Bengals and their new HC feel the roster needs tweaking, but if they can stay healthy, can win. Taylor's head is on the line, so if he fails, he takes the fall.

But again, long way to go until September.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-18-2019, 12:00 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: And to everyone saying that "this team isn't better or worse than last year, its basically the same roster"...

Well OK...the same roster has been rolled out there for the past 5 frigging seasons without results. Last years results being especially pathetic. Either upgrade it, blow it up, or expect the same results.

I mean seriously, we really think the signings of Preston Brown, Bobby Hart, B.W. Webb, and John Miller coupled with another year of an aging core is going to turn this thing around?

Give me a break.

None of those guys will move the needle. Miller is a slight upgrade to Redmond which might help.

The Bengals are obviously banking on better health and better coaching. The 4-1 start seduced them to thinking that the roster is great apparently.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-18-2019, 01:06 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I am not sure on overall health other than I know Burfict was injured and suspended a lot. AJ Green missed 6 or 7 full games in 2017. Eifert we all know was hurt both years as well.

The Bengals and their new HC feel the roster needs tweaking, but if they can stay healthy, can win. Taylor's head is on the line, so if he fails, he takes the fall.

But again, long way to go until September.

We will have key injuries this year too. It happens to every team in the league.

That's where you need young depth that can play so you don't have a Hardy Nickerson starting.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-18-2019, 12:56 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: There's two things I've learned from this front office over the years:

They don't want to go back to the 90's.
They don't want to win a SB.

So I highly doubt they go thru a rebuild unless it's 100% necessary, similar to firing ML for ZT. That is the only reason I see them sticking with the same way of doing business year after year, after year. Maybe the second point changes after this year (people can change), but after them resigning ML this last go-round, it was set in stone. The ZT hiring was done out of necessity. 

I actually disagree with the second statement.
I believe they do want to win a SB.
However, I believe they don't want to gamble on the future for the sake of going all-in in case it doesn't work.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-18-2019, 12:29 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: All good points, but wasn't this same team relatively healthy in one way or another in 2016 and 2017? Those teams won 6 and 7 games. Granted both of those teams added and lost quality pieces along the way. 

I'm sorry, but parts of this roster just reek of mediocrity or below average play and the organization just wont upgrade it. So until then, im expecting the same results. Average. 

Yes and no.

Glenn and Hart are better than Ogbuehi and Fisher. But they still performed below expectations.
The receivers now are better than they were in 2016 and 2017, but not by much.
Eifert hasn't been able to stay healthy any year, so that's a constant.
Price didn't really perform any better than Bodine, but he was projected to be (much) better.
The defense is very similar year-to-year, personnel-wise. I think the scheme that Austin brought really didn't fit the personnel the Bengals had, which caused a huge dropoff.

[Hoofhearted]

(03-18-2019, 01:16 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I actually disagree with the second statement.
I believe they do want to win a SB.
However, I believe they don't want to gamble on the future for the sake of going all-in in case it doesn't work.

Then how do you explain bringing back a coach from a losing season after so many chances? That sold it for me. There's no spinning that any other way than he's good enough to win, but not good enough to win it all. And they were fine with that. Anywhoo, hopefully I'm wrong and change is in order. I've said before and will say it again...i've been wrong many times in my life and I'm man enough to admit it. Hopefully this is yet another case of that 

[THE PISTONS]

(03-18-2019, 01:16 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I actually disagree with the second statement.
I believe they do want to win a SB.
However, I believe they don't want to gamble on the future for the sake of going all-in in case it doesn't work.

Every team in the NFL wants to win a Super Bowl. The resources they commit to achieve that goal are vastly different.

Take the 2015 team, we saved money on signing a Center. That cap space rolls over and we get the teams we had the last 3 years. So by not gambling the future away, we still had 3 bad years.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-18-2019, 01:27 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Then how do you explain bringing back a coach from a losing season after so many chances? That sold it for me. There's no spinning that any other way than he's good enough to win, but not good enough to win it all. And they were fine with that. Anywhoo, hopefully I'm wrong and change is in order. I've said before and will say it again...i've been wrong many times in my life and I'm man enough to admit it. Hopefully this is yet another case of that 

I'm trying to put myself in the minds of the FO...
Marvin's crew went to the playoffs in 2005, 2009, and 2011-2015. That's 7 out of 16 seasons (43%). In the FO's minds, Marvin has shown he can get his team to the playoffs on a recurring basis. Given the frequency of success of getting to the playoffs, Mike Brown and co. was giving Marvin a chance to right the ship again.

Look at it this way...Mike saw how often Marvin was able to get the team into the playoffs, especially in the past decade. He felt more comfortable and less risk to see if Marvin could do it again vs bringing in someone brand new.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-18-2019, 01:56 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm trying to put myself in the minds of the FO...
Marvin's crew went to the playoffs in 2005, 2009, and 2011-2015. That's 7 out of 16 seasons (43%). In the FO's minds, Marvin has shown he can get his team to the playoffs on a recurring basis. Given the frequency of success of getting to the playoffs, Mike Brown and co. was giving Marvin a chance to right the ship again.

Look at it this way...Mike saw how often Marvin was able to get the team into the playoffs, especially in the past decade. He felt more comfortable and less risk to see if Marvin could do it again vs bringing in someone brand new.

Yes. Another word is comfort and being comfortable.

We saw what happened when they changed DC's to Austin who brought in a new scheme. It was chaos.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-18-2019, 01:46 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Every team in the NFL wants to win a Super Bowl. The resources they commit to achieve that goal are vastly different.

Take the 2015 team, we saved money on signing a Center. That cap space rolls over and we get the teams we had the last 3 years. So by not gambling the future away, we still had 3 bad years.

Or they thought they already had the pieces in 2015 to compete for a Super Bowl. And through the regular season, it looked like it could be a reality. The Bengals only missed a first-round bye due to a tiebreaker situation. They also ended up with probably the most impactful injury a contending team can face - QB.

Could they have done more? Absolutely. But they didn't.

The real problem seems to lie with their ability to objectively evaluate existing talent. They think their guys are (far) better than what (most) fans see. It causes them to overpay for their own and also some timidness to go for new people.

[WeezyBengal]

(03-18-2019, 12:40 PM)fredtoast Wrote:  

Yeah, right.

It's been the same core for years now, Fred. Not sure what to tell you.