IF White is gone, who do you pick?

[Big Boss]

Kiper now has us taking Drew Lock at #11.

o_o

[shanebo]

(04-03-2019, 03:56 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Who cares if the top OT is projected as a RT? You do realize the NFL rushing game has dramatically changed. You also know which side Von Miller is coming from correct. I would take Taylor or Jonah Williams at #11 in a heartbeat. Would you say Willie Anderson was worthy of a top 10 selection?

Sure, but not a great comparison because Willie was drafted as a LT and later turned out to be a great RT.  And Taylor/Williams aren't projected to be Willie Anderson, or even perennial pro bowlers (or even LTs, for that matter ...).  Would you say Andre Smith -- who was drafted to be our RT -- was worthy of a top 10 selection?  I say no.  

The fact is there are certain positions that typically aren't worth a top-5 or top-10 pick.  For example, RTs, OGs, and Cs.  Why?  Because if you're an incredibly talented O-lineman, you typically play LT since it's more important to protect a QB's blind side.  Are there exceptions?  Sure - RTs Lane Johnson and Ryan Ramczyk would (and should) probably go top 5.  But they can play LT; only play RT because their teams are lucky enough to have a more talented guy at LT.  OGs Zack Martin and David DeCastro would probably go top 10, but it's rare for an interior lineman to go that high because they generally don't have that much of an impact on the game.  Same thing goes for safeties and ILBs (best guys are typically CBs and pass rushers, respectively). 

This year we likely will have a rare opportunity to take a (potentially) perennial all-pro D-lineman with the 10th pick, someone who could be a real difference maker.  No guarantee, of course, but I'd much rather take that chance than reach for a solid starting RT or OG.  (obviously just my opinion ...)       

[blt4584]

I think one of the main reasons that interior linemen and RTs weren't picked as high was due to the former financial investment involved, and with that factor removed, teams are more likely to take them over a lesser talent at a premier position that would cost a ton no matter how acquired.

Teams do need two pass protectors at T now, so RT could start being a higher need and pushed up draft boards soon. On top of that, quality O-linemen seem to be getting harder to find, so you gotta get them when you can.

[OSUfan]

(04-03-2019, 05:37 PM)Big Boss Wrote: Kiper now has us taking Drew Lock at #11.

o_o

Kiper is an idiot. The draft won't be nearly as good without Mayock.

[OSUfan]

(04-03-2019, 05:55 PM)shanebo Wrote: Sure, but not a great comparison because Willie was drafted as a LT and later turned out to be a great RT.  And Taylor/Williams aren't projected to be Willie Anderson, or even perennial pro bowlers (or even LTs, for that matter ...).  Would you say Andre Smith -- who was drafted to be our RT -- was worthy of a top 10 selection?  I say no.  

The fact is there are certain positions that typically aren't worth a top-5 or top-10 pick.  For example, RTs, OGs, and Cs.  Why?  Because if you're an incredibly talented O-lineman, you typically play LT since it's more important to protect a QB's blind side.  Are there exceptions?  Sure - RTs Lane Johnson and Ryan Ramczyk would (and should) probably go top 5.  But they can play LT; only play RT because their teams are lucky enough to have a more talented guy at LT.  OGs Zack Martin and David DeCastro would probably go top 10, but it's rare for an interior lineman to go that high because they generally don't have that much of an impact on the game.  Same thing goes for safeties and ILBs (best guys are typically CBs and pass rushers, respectively). 

This year we likely will have a rare opportunity to take a (potentially) perennial all-pro D-lineman with the 10th pick, someone who could be a real difference maker.  No guarantee, of course, but I'd much rather take that chance than reach for a solid starting RT or OG.  (obviously just my opinion ...)       

He played LT in college but you have no idea what he was drafted to play. To my knowledge he never took the field for the Bengals as a LT. Andre Smith played LT in college as well.

[OSUfan]

(04-03-2019, 06:13 PM)blt4584 Wrote: I think one of the main reasons that interior linemen and RTs weren't picked as high was due to the former financial investment involved, and with that factor removed, teams are more likely to take them over a lesser talent at a premier position that would cost a ton no matter how acquired.

Teams do need two pass protectors at T now, so RT could start being a higher need and pushed up draft boards soon. On top of that, quality O-linemen seem to be getting harder to find, so you gotta get them when you can.

Exactly the point I made earlier. When you have guys like Von Miller coming after the right side of your line you better have a worthy RT.

[TKUHL]

(03-25-2019, 01:46 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Say Murray, Haskins, and Lock are gone. White is gone.

Who do you take? These are the guys to choose from:

Devin Bush
TJ Hockenson
Jawaan Taylor
Ed Oliver
Jonah Williams
DK Metcalf
Marquise Brown
Cody Ford

If White is gone my pick would be in the following order.

Taylor
Hock
Oliver
Williams
Ford
Bush
No WR

If I had to pick one of the guys you had. Not a big fan of Bush, the player that is.

[Hammerstripes]

(04-03-2019, 07:52 PM)OSUfan Wrote: He played LT in college but you have no idea what he was drafted to play. To my knowledge he never took the field for the Bengals as a LT. Andre Smith played LT in college as well.

He did fill in one game when Levi Jones was hurt, but they never made the push to put him over there after Levi started having knee problems

[shanebo]

(04-03-2019, 07:52 PM)OSUfan Wrote: He played LT in college but you have no idea what he was drafted to play. To my knowledge he never took the field for the Bengals as a LT. Andre Smith played LT in college as well.

(04-05-2019, 02:13 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: He did fill in one game when Levi Jones was hurt, but they never made the push to put him over there after Levi started having knee problems

Willie was our starting LT his rookie year (Joe Walter was RT).  They moved him to RT after Kevin Sargent came back from his neck injury and Walter was on his last legs, and he stuck there.  Smith was drafted to play RT -- one of the reasons for his holdout is that we told him he was a RT and refused to pay him LT money.

Your Von Miller point is a good one -- it's true that many teams are drafting smaller, speed rushers and sending them from both sides.  But IMO that underscores the point that what we really need is two LTs; guys who can move their feet well enough to stay in front of and block those speed rushers.  When I read that Jawaan Taylor "projects as an NFL RT," that tells me that some scouts think he has slower feet and may struggle to block speed rushers like Miller.  When I read that Jonah Williams "projects as an NFL RT or OG," that tells me that some scouts think he has really slow feet plus short arms, and may really struggle blocking speed rushers on the outside.  Their grades are generally well below those of the top OTs drafted in prior years (who were projected to play LT) -- Ryan Ramczyk, Jack Conklin, Laramy Tunsil, etc.  Which is why I wouldn't love either at 11.