ESPN - Troy Blackburn comments on Bobby Hart signing

[jj22]

I think we should all take note of Troy's use of Wal-Mart as an example to shop for free agents.

While the rest of the league is shopping at Nordstrom, the Bengals are skimming through sells racks at Wal-Mart. Then telling they kids they can't find any high end fashion that they are asking for for back to school gear.

That was actually VERY telling to their view on their approach to free agent shopping.

What he doesn't realize is the kids aren't fooled. They looking at him like of course not. We at Wal-Mart!

[Hoofhearted]

(03-29-2019, 10:57 AM)Wyche Wrote: All signs point to Mike Brown definitely wanting to re-up AJ Green.  Dalton will negotiate after this season, the way it reads.

Yeah, but he mentioned them being bit by the injury bug from what I've read. Clearly they would like to, but still the point was they say things in line with "prove it!", but give a bad player a big raise and term? So what did he prove? Do he really have to prove anything other than knowing how to sign his name on a contract? 

"You really signed your name on that contract well! How would you like a three year deal with a huge pay raise? Yes, you read that right under your expected expectations....it is blank. Look further down and you'll see our pretty please with cherry on top wish list. Don't get to bent out of shape trying to achieve those goals, you have two more years to get it! we believe in you!". 

[THE PISTONS]

(03-29-2019, 11:40 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Yeah, but he mentioned them being bit by the injury bug from what I've read. Clearly they would like to, but still the point was they say things in line with "prove it!", but give a bad player a big raise and term? So what did he prove? Do he really have to prove anything other than knowing how to sign his name on a contract? 

"You really signed your name on that contract well! How would you like a three year deal with a huge pay raise? Yes, you read that right under your expected expectations....it is blank. Look further down and you'll see our pretty please with cherry on top wish list. Don't get to bent out of shape trying to achieve those goals, you have two more years to get it! we believe in you!". 

So we did get hit hard by injuries this past year...BUT this was the 3rd year in a row of no playoffs. The year before we had better health, and no playoffs because the line was terrible.

If you look hard at a 5-6 win team in the NFL you could rationalize a break here or a break there and winning 9 games, but the reality is we didn't make the playoffs and anything else is just excuses.

[Whatever]

(03-29-2019, 10:33 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: That's all fair analysis.

Draft analysis isn't as easy as great drafting or poor drafting. Even bad front offices will occasionally draft some good players. It's consistency.

On a team, even bad teams...there are going to be some guys that put up decent stats. But, the challenge is getting enough talent to hit that tipping point to be one of the best teams in the league.

Out of the last 27 years, I'd say we had rosters that I felt were good enough to win in the playoffs 2-3 times. That is VERY low.

I would say that we should have made several playoff runs during the Marvin era based on talent.  The offense was absolutely loaded in the mid-late '00's.  You had Palmer, Chad, TJ, Henry, Rudi, that ridiculous OL, Reggie Kelly was basically an extra T he was so good at blocking.  Brat was a HORRIBLE OC, though.  He even said in an interview after he retired that everybody knew their playcalls but teams just didn't have enough talent to stop them. That group could have done a lot more with even a decent OC.  We definitely should have beaten SD and we should have beaten Pittsburgh if guys could have kept their heads on straight.  

The Og/Fisher draft was a disaster and created an avalanche of problems.  It also seemed that after Jay and Zim left town that the team struggled to find star players in the draft.  They drafted a ton of guys who are good enough to make rosters, but not guys that are going to be franchise cornerstones.

[rezolve11]

Guy sounds like a super dick ??

[THE PISTONS]

(03-29-2019, 12:32 PM)Whatever Wrote: I would say that we should have made several playoff runs during the Marvin era based on talent.  The offense was absolutely loaded in the mid-late '00's.  You had Palmer, Chad, TJ, Henry, Rudi, that ridiculous OL, Reggie Kelly was basically an extra T he was so good at blocking.  Brat was a HORRIBLE OC, though.  He even said in an interview after he retired that everybody knew their playcalls but teams just didn't have enough talent to stop them. That group could have done a lot more with even a decent OC.  We definitely should have beaten SD and we should have beaten Pittsburgh if guys could have kept their heads on straight.  

The Og/Fisher draft was a disaster and created an avalanche of problems.  It also seemed that after Jay and Zim left town that the team struggled to find star players in the draft.  They drafted a ton of guys who are good enough to make rosters, but not guys that are going to be franchise cornerstones.

The defenses were generally bad in those years. We never really had that complete team until maybe 2015.

But, I know people hate hearing it, but all but like 4-5 other franchise's have won 5+ playoff games since we've last won 1. That means likely those franchise's have had rosters capable of making playoff runs more than 2-3 years over that span.

Of course, some teams like the worst of the worst Browns would look bad if you compared our regular season records to theirs. In the regular season, we  have been more successful than some of the teams in the league. But, even at that, it's remarkable that we haven't been able to win a playoff game. Seattle did it when they were 7-9.

[Hoofhearted]

(03-29-2019, 11:44 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So we did get hit hard by injuries this past year...BUT this was the 3rd year in a row of no playoffs. The year before we had better health, and no playoffs because the line was terrible.

If you look hard at a 5-6 win team in the NFL you could rationalize a break here or a break there and winning 9 games, but the reality is we didn't make the playoffs and anything else is just excuses.

Yea, I get that. I meant they give Eifert prove it deals and he’s proven he can play when healthy. That’s the definition of a prove it deal. But he keeps getting them until he proves he can stay that way before they commit term wise with him. I have know idea what Hart proved to get what he did. I guess I don’t necessarily understand how they go thru the process of resigning. It’s like a blind man picking out his favorite porno

[THE PISTONS]

(03-29-2019, 12:57 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Yea, I get that. I meant  they give Eifert prove it deals and he’s proven he can play when healthy. That’s the definition of a prove it deal. But he keeps getting them until he proves he can stay that way before they commit term wise with him. I have know idea what Hart proved to get what he did. I guess I don’t necessarily understand how they go thru the process of resigning. It’s like a blind man picking out his favorite porno

I don't know that Eifert proves much even by his play.

Last year he had 15 catches for 179 yards in 4 games.
The year before 4 receptions for 46 yards in 2 games.

He's had over 445 yards receiving exactly ONCE in 6 years. He's caught over 39 passes ONCE in 6 years.

Based on statistics alone he is extremely overrated. Because he's hurt so much, there is like a myth about what he's capable of.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(03-29-2019, 01:22 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I don't know that Eifert proves much even by his play.

Last year he had 15 catches for 179 yards in 4 games.
The year before 4 receptions for 46 yards in 2 games.

He's had over 445 yards receiving exactly ONCE in 6 years. He's caught over 39 passes ONCE in 6 years.

Based on statistics alone he is extremely overrated. Because he's hurt so much, there is like a myth about what he's capable of.

He’s never put up big yds, but he was a TD machine in 2015. With Ross at least proving he’s also lethal in the RZ, that’s some good options for Dalton when he also has AJ, Boyd, and Mixon.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(03-29-2019, 11:22 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Ya think?

With regards to Hart, he gave up 10 sacks and over 35 pressures? How many penalties? There is no defending his performance. He's not Andrew Whitworth. And you don't pay for some mythical potential. You pay for results. The market also helps determine worth, and we had no competition for Hart's services. 

With the run game, I think people aren't talking about the switch from Pollack to Turner enough. Under Pollack, we had our best YPC ranking since 2000. I'm not so sure we should expect that success to continue under Turner. There might be a drop off.

I'm certainly not defending his play.....I didn't like him at FSU.

That said, I realize how bad a shape we were in going into FA at the T position.  We had Glenn, and Perkins.  That's it.  The way I read this is like this:  they overpaid a bit, but not as much as people think due to the market established, and the new cap.  I'll say they probably DID panic a bit.  That said, I'm not sure I blame them....the FA T class was not very good to start with.  They know what they have in Hart, and will try to upgrade in the draft or possibly on the waiver wire.  They could have gotten another player that was marginally better for more money, missed on Dennard or Eifert as a result, and then said FA comes in and goes all Albert Haynesworth and then you're ******.

The way it was, you overpay even more for a marginally better prospect, lose an internal FA, or you roll with Ced O on the roster in place of Hart.  I could be missing something....but I don't see any All Pro FA RT signed this offseason.  As I keep mentioning, Piano Man FUBARed us much more than people realize.  That idiot set this position group back a good four years with his incompetence.  With the way tackles are coming out of college so ill-prepared, you aren't seeing a lot of good tackles out there in FA these days.  If they're good, teams are paying to keep them.....well, besides us.

[Bryan]

Wow Blackburn came off really asshole-ish didn't he? I feel for Mike Brown, I truly believe he really wants to win. I just think he doesn't know the best way to go about it. If Troy is any indicator, the franchise doesn't seem better off when Mike does indeed fully step away or pass.

[Millhouse]

(03-29-2019, 02:01 PM)Wyche Wrote: I'm certainly not defending his play.....I didn't like him at FSU.

That said, I realize how bad a shape we were in going into FA at the T position.  We had Glenn, and Perkins.  That's it.  The way I read this is like this:  they overpaid a bit, but not as much as people think due to the market established, and the new cap.  I'll say they probably DID panic a bit.  That said, I'm not sure I blame them....the FA T class was not very good to start with.  They know what they have in Hart, and will try to upgrade in the draft or possibly on the waiver wire.  They could have gotten another player that was marginally better for more money, missed on Dennard or Eifert as a result, and then said FA comes in and goes all Albert Haynesworth and then you're ******.

The way it was, you overpay even more for a marginally better prospect, lose an internal FA, or you roll with Ced O on the roster in place of Hart.  I could be missing something....but I don't see any All Pro FA RT signed this offseason.  As I keep mentioning, Piano Man FUBARed us much more than people realize.  That idiot set this position group back a good four years with his incompetence.  With the way tackles are coming out of college so ill-prepared, you aren't seeing a lot of good tackles out there in FA these days.  If they're good, teams are paying to keep them.....well, besides us.

I am also not completely against bringing Hart back as an insurance policy. I am however against it being a 3 year deal. IF anything it should be another 1 year deal, with incentives for starting and go from there. Then at the same time they can still try to find a trade if possible, draft a tackle high up if need be, grab a free agent if one gets cut as that sometimes happens after the draft and during preseason, etc.

[Shake n Blake]

(03-29-2019, 02:01 PM)Wyche Wrote: I'm certainly not defending his play.....I didn't like him at FSU.

That said, I realize how bad a shape we were in going into FA at the T position.  We had Glenn, and Perkins.  That's it.  The way I read this is like this:  they overpaid a bit, but not as much as people think due to the market established, and the new cap.  I'll say they probably DID panic a bit.  That said, I'm not sure I blame them....the FA T class was not very good to start with.  They know what they have in Hart, and will try to upgrade in the draft or possibly on the waiver wire.  They could have gotten another player that was marginally better for more money, missed on Dennard or Eifert as a result, and then said FA comes in and goes all Albert Haynesworth and then you're ******.

The way it was, you overpay even more for a marginally better prospect, lose an internal FA, or you roll with Ced O on the roster in place of Hart.  I could be missing something....but I don't see any All Pro FA RT signed this offseason.  As I keep mentioning, Piano Man FUBARed us much more than people realize.  That idiot set this position group back a good four years with his incompetence.  With the way tackles are coming out of college so ill-prepared, you aren't seeing a lot of good tackles out there in FA these days.  If they're good, teams are paying to keep them.....well, besides us.

Valid point on the thin market, but IIRC, Hart is now the 8th best paid RT for 2019? We overpaid because we had to have somebody. Seems Hart's agent took them to the woodshed knowing that.. even with no one else coming after him. So I do think we overpaid a bit, and I also think 3 years was excessive. 

I wanted Hart back as backup/insurance, but man did we pay a premium. Whit's Rams deal looks like an absolute bargain in comparison.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(03-29-2019, 02:16 PM)Millhouse Wrote: I am also not completely against bringing Hart back as an insurance policy. I am however against it being a 3 year deal. IF anything it should be another 1 year deal, with incentives for starting and go from there. Then at the same time they can still try to find a trade if possible, draft a tackle high up if need be, grab a free agent if one gets cut as that sometimes happens after the draft and during preseason, etc.

Yep, totally agree.  The 3 year part is the head scratcher, but it appears it can be gotten out of with minimal impact, so there's that little bit of sunshine...lol.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(03-29-2019, 02:49 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Valid point on the thin market, but IIRC, Hart is now the 8th best paid RT for 2019? We overpaid because we had to have somebody. Seems Hart's agent took them to the woodshed knowing that.. even with no one else coming after him. So I do think we overpaid a bit, and I also think 3 years was excessive. 

I wanted Hart back as backup/insurance, but man did we pay a premium. Whit's Rams deal looks like an absolute bargain in comparison.

No argument here.....although I think we'll see that 8th or 9th best paid RT drop way down when the next round of deals for them come out....

Definitely not quite sure why they felt the need to go at it with 3 years, but there are outs in the contract....and maybe they see something we don't?  They must have better glasses.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(03-29-2019, 02:01 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: I'm certainly not defending his play.....I didn't like him at FSU.

That said, I realize how bad a shape we were in going into FA at the T position.  We had Glenn, and Perkins.  That's it.  The way I read this is like this:  they overpaid a bit, but not as much as people think due to the market established, and the new cap.  I'll say they probably DID panic a bit.  That said, I'm not sure I blame them....the FA T class was not very good to start with.  They know what they have in Hart, and will try to upgrade in the draft or possibly on the waiver wire.  They could have gotten another player that was marginally better for more money, missed on Dennard or Eifert as a result, and then said FA comes in and goes all Albert Haynesworth and then you're ******.

The way it was, you overpay even more for a marginally better prospect, lose an internal FA, or you roll with Ced O on the roster in place of Hart.  I could be missing something....but I don't see any All Pro FA RT signed this offseason.  As I keep mentioning, Piano Man FUBARed us much more than people realize. That idiot set this position group back a good four years with his incompetence.  With the way tackles are coming out of college so ill-prepared, you aren't seeing a lot of good tackles out there in FA these days.  If they're good, teams are paying to keep them.....well, besides us.

It really comes down to that; people can say what they want, about Troy, about closing windows, about MB, ML, etc. but the stone cold, focal pointed, 100% reason for the oline issues, falls squarely on PA.

Nothing else to it.

(03-29-2019, 02:49 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Valid point on the thin market, but IIRC, Hart is now the 8th best paid RT for 2019? We overpaid because we had to have somebody. Seems Hart's agent took them to the woodshed knowing that.. even with no one else coming after him. So I do think we overpaid a bit, and I also think 3 years was excessive. 

I wanted Hart back as backup/insurance, but man did we pay a premium. Whit's Rams deal looks like an absolute bargain in comparison.

There are only 8 RTs making more than 5.1 mil a year? (not including all of the incentives because he absolutely won't hit them and thus, its moot).

Super undervalued position, if you ask me.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-29-2019, 03:38 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: It really comes down to that; people can say what they want, about Troy, about closing windows, about MB, ML, etc. but the stone cold, focal pointed, 100% reason for the oline issues, falls squarely on PA.

Nothing else to it.



There are only 8 RTs making more than 5.1 mil a year? (not including all of the incentives because he absolutely won't hit them and thus, its moot).

Super undervalued position, if you ask me.

And Alexander coached here since the 1990's. It's up to management to recognize IF he is underperforming and replace him.

No matter what, management is to blame for EVERYTHING that happens good and bad as they are ultimately responsible.

[Shake n Blake]

(03-29-2019, 02:55 PM)Wyche Wrote: No argument here.....although I think we'll see that 8th or 9th best paid RT drop way down when the next round of deals for them come out....

Definitely not quite sure why they felt the need to go at it with 3 years, but there are outs in the contract....and maybe they see something we don't?  They must have better glasses.

It will look "slightly" better after this first year. His pay goes down some after that, and I'm sure salaries will go up overall. It's just man...Bobby Hart? The only reason we don't hate this guy is because he's not Ogbuehi.

This is the guy who will be paid like a good RT in 2019, and he'll probably be around for 3 years. Possibly starting for a good chunk of that. As someone who values line play (you do too) I'm not happy.

(03-29-2019, 03:38 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: There are only 8 RTs making more than 5.1 mil a year? (not including all of the incentives because he absolutely won't hit them and thus, its moot).

Super undervalued position, if you ask me.

Pretty sure that ranking is based on his 2019 salary compared to other right tackles. Not his average for the 3 years. The last 2 years are more reasonable. It's the first year that's pretty out of whack.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-29-2019, 02:01 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: I'm certainly not defending his play.....I didn't like him at FSU.

That said, I realize how bad a shape we were in going into FA at the T position.  We had Glenn, and Perkins.  That's it.  The way I read this is like this:  they overpaid a bit, but not as much as people think due to the market established, and the new cap.  I'll say they probably DID panic a bit.  That said, I'm not sure I blame them....the FA T class was not very good to start with.  They know what they have in Hart, and will try to upgrade in the draft or possibly on the waiver wire.  They could have gotten another player that was marginally better for more money, missed on Dennard or Eifert as a result, and then said FA comes in and goes all Albert Haynesworth and then you're ******.

The way it was, you overpay even more for a marginally better prospect, lose an internal FA, or you roll with Ced O on the roster in place of Hart.  I could be missing something....but I don't see any All Pro FA RT signed this offseason.  As I keep mentioning, Piano Man FUBARed us much more than people realize.  That idiot set this position group back a good four years with his incompetence.  With the way tackles are coming out of college so ill-prepared, you aren't seeing a lot of good tackles out there in FA these days.  If they're good, teams are paying to keep them.....well, besides us.

Thanks for this post Wyche, made me feel better and with a decent draft where we add a decent RT and a couple LB's we might be more than fine. But this Troy guy needs to shut his trap and not come off like an ass hat as Harley says. Seriously made me question the future of our favorite team.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-29-2019, 03:38 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: It really comes down to that; people can say what they want, about Troy, about closing windows, about MB, ML, etc. but the stone cold, focal pointed, 100% reason for the oline issues, falls squarely on PA.

Nothing else to it.



There are only 8 RTs making more than 5.1 mil a year? (not including all of the incentives because he absolutely won't hit them and thus, its moot).

Super undervalued position, if you ask me.

That's not true.
The following are making more than Bobby Hart on an avg/year basis:
Ja'Wuan James
Lane Johnson
Ricky Wagner
Rob Havenstein
Morgan Moses
Bobbie Massie
La'el Collins
Chris Hubbard
Brian Bulaga
Mitchell Schwartz
Marcus Cannon
Marcus Gilbert
Daryl Williams
Demar Dotson

It makes Bobby Hart the 15th highest paid RT on a per-year basis.