ESPN - Troy Blackburn comments on Bobby Hart signing

[Shake n Blake]

I look at it like this: I never like throwing money at bad players. Hart is a bad player. We could get bad play at his position at a cheaper price... probably with better potential for the future as well.

Troy asks if we'd rather have a 3rd round pick starting at RT? Well...um...yes. Yes I would.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(03-29-2019, 04:09 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: It will look "slightly" better after this first year. His pay goes down some after that, and I'm sure salaries will go up overall. It's just man...Bobby Hart? The only reason we don't hate this guy is because he's not Ogbuehi.

This is the guy who will be paid like a good RT in 2019, and he'll probably be around for 3 years. Possibly starting for a good chunk of that. As someone who values line play (you do too) I'm not happy.


Pretty sure that ranking is based on his 2019 salary compared to other right tackles. Not his average for the 3 years. The last 2 years are more reasonable. It's the first year that's pretty out of whack.

If I'm being honest......that's a pretty damn good reason!

I'm not thrilled either, but I see the reasoning behind it.

(03-29-2019, 04:17 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Thanks for this post Wyche, made me feel better and with a decent draft where we add a decent RT and a couple LB's we might be more than fine. But this Troy guy needs to shut his trap and not come off like an ass hat as Harley says. Seriously made me question the future of our favorite team.

Someone needs to grab the mic away from him, no doubt.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-29-2019, 04:25 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I look at it like this: I never like throwing money at bad players. Hart is a bad player. We could get bad play at his position at a cheaper price... probably with better potential for the future as well.

Troy asks if we'd rather have a 3rd round pick starting at RT? Well...um...yes. Yes I would.

I guess the potential silver lining is that there could be some solid RT options next year:
La'el Collins
Bryan Bulaga
Marcus Gilbert
Daryl Williams
Jack Conklin

[Shake n Blake]

(03-29-2019, 04:35 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I guess the potential silver lining is that there could be some solid RT options next year:
La'el Collins
Bryan Bulaga
Marcus Gilbert
Daryl Williams
Jack Conklin

Gimme Collins. I was mad when the Cowboys signed him after that draft anyway.

[BengalChris]

(03-29-2019, 10:41 AM)Wyche Wrote: Right on.....but about that 3rd round part, I think he meant something like "are you willing to leverage the position on a 3rd round rookie, or Bobby Hart?"  On the surface, it sounds like the 3rd round would be the first time they are willing to look at OT prospects, but I don't think, or certainly hope not, that is their philosophy.  You don't want to tip your hand about your draft plan.....and RT does not get the glory and draft positioning of LT.  

Let us not forget, signing Hart left money on the table for Eifert and Dennard.  If we overspend on Brown or the kid out of Miami (name escapes me at the moment), we probably don't sign one of those two players.

Make no bones about it, we are STILL suffering from the Ole'hi and Fisher picks.  

It's hard to tell what he actually meant about that 3rd round thing. It did sound like that was the first pick they'd think about taking a tackle, but, of course, that would be ridiculous. Then again, this is the Bengals front office inner workings we are talking about, and logical thought processing hasn't existed there in 28 years.

[Beaker]

(03-29-2019, 11:28 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: You were initially upset when Hart was signed?

It's funny that a lot of the people who call me negative also disliked moves.

I guess since everything you see is through a negative perspective you can't discern the difference between disliking or disagreeing with a decision and constantly and consistently being negative about the team. 

[BengalsRocker]

(03-29-2019, 09:00 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Hart is awful, and couldn’t even keep his job on the NYG who had an arguably worse OL than us.

Iirc you were also pretty high on Redmond, so maybe you’re not the best judge when in comes to olinemen...

See here is what I'm talking about.

Hart's track record is that of a complete suck-ass.

Low ratings, eyes, whatever back it up.

It's not some fabrication or false narrative.

This is truth.

Is he the worst we've seen start?  Hell no...  but that's not saying much!!

[BengalFanInNJ]

(03-28-2019, 08:02 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: But McRib? Mmm :drool:

****. Now I have to go to effing McDonalds. 

[THE PISTONS]

(03-29-2019, 05:19 PM)Beaker Wrote: I guess since everything you see is through a negative perspective you can't discern the difference between disliking or disagreeing with a decision and constantly and consistently being negative about the team. 

Did you see my threads about Mixon being a Top 3 back?

Seems like you're the one that has the negative filter.

[THE PISTONS]

She was there too during the interview but she's always preferred to be in the background. And her husband is vice president of the team. It's going to be their team, not just hers. https://t.co/VXlV92RaBZ

— Katherine Terrell (@Kat_Terrell) March 29, 2019

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[Socal Bengals fan]

Seems the Bengals won’t be drafting a tackle with the first pick. Most would agree linebacker needs to be the pick maybe even DT , but I’m kinda worried I have no idea what they are thinking it wouldn’t surprise me if they went WR DK Metcalf because A.J is a free agent soon and because they hate us.

[JumboTron]

In all honesty, why is Troy even opening his mouth? This dude is the absolute epitome of a beta-male.

[THE Bigzoman]

A bit of a Freudian slip there.

He's essentially saying that they won't draft a tackle high this year.

He's either blowing smoke or conveying the Bengals' draft plans to anyone willing to listen.

On-Topic: What's wrong with picking up a tackle in the early rounds and betting your season on them? A draft pick has upside and can get better. Hart has been in the league for some time and people already knows who he is, he stinks! The only problem with this is that the Bengals have gotten bad at judging talent at offensive tackle. The Bengals drafted 2 in a row in the 2015 draft (Cerdirc Ogbughei and Jake Fisher). Ogbughei's career is on its last legs in Jacksonville and Fisher was so bad that he decided to become a tight end this offseason.

No, you can't go in a time machine and get a young Willie Anderson. Want to know what you could've done? Matched the Rams' offer for Andrew Whitworth! Every year Big Whit has a pro-bowl caliber year as a Ram embarrasses the Bengals' front office.

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-29-2019, 10:43 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I don't know that you can put the run game success all on the line. I think Mixon is an extraordinary talent that is able to run behind a bad line and gain yardage.

Ok, well consider that Joe Mixon went from 3.5 YPC in 2017 and had 4.9 YPC in 2018....The differences in those lines was significant and Hart/Redmond were a part of that.

The offense stumbled as players went down, but the rushing attack stayed fairly strong.  We all liked Pollack over Alexander and it was both of those guy's first time playing for him....heck, it was Redmond's first time playing at all.  

I believe that with a full, healthy offseason, Price will start to look like a first round pick and Redmond will have to fight out John Miller for the RG spot, and maybe Westerman.  Hart doesn't really have any competition right now so I would imagine they will be drafting at least one tackle to try and compete for the job.

A lot of mocks I have been doing have Greg Little available in the 2nd round, but I would imagine he will go much higher than that.

Either way, I can see a better pass pro from these guys and, hopefully, another strong year rushing the ball.

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-29-2019, 10:46 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Yes, but they did not need to give him such a huge pay raise and length. There's a middle ground a lot of us are arguing here. It's not they signed him, it's they seemingly made him a priority, gave him a huge pay raise for under performing, and added insurance years. Meanwhile, they're not even wanting to re-up AJ and AD because....they want THEM to basically prove it? Seriously? That's the message? If you're young and bad, we'll give you a shot. If you're good at your job but have some down years due to injuries or whatever, you better earn it. 

I think you need to learn about the details of Hart's contract before you call it "a huge pay raise and length".  Compare that to other middle of the road starting RTs and I would imagine you will see that it was somewhat of a bargain.  Hart's character was under fire because of how he supposedly didn't want to play the final game for the Giants so his value took a significant hit.  He was given a chance here to see if he could be a solid option at RT on a one-year "prove it" deal, and he came in and outperformed both Ogbuehi and Fisher.  He earned the pay raise.  

We like to say "the offensive line sucks", but what really sucked on this team was the defense.  If the offense had better quality depth (and I assign some of that blame to Marvin and the other coaches for not getting some of the other players more snaps earlier in their career) they might have held up better to the injuries.  Don't get me wrong, the Bengals are going to need more out of their RT spot, whether that is in the form of the young Hart developing or a new player coming in, but his contract was justified.  Again, he was a middle of the road RT according to PFF and he had a rookie on his side.  A line is more about cohesion than just individual performance.  Hart is also just 24 years old.  Whit came in to the league at 25 and didn't exclusively play OT until his fourth year in the league.  He struggled mightily early on when pressed in to tackle duty.  Good thing we didn't give up on him.  Oh, and he was an early 2nd round pick.  

Will Hart become a Whitworth?  I really doubt it, but I think you get my point.  I am really looking for good things from the entire offense with the new coaching staff.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-29-2019, 04:42 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Gimme Collins. I was mad when the Cowboys signed him after that draft anyway.

Me too...only the Bengals would have been destroyed for taking that guy after the rumors of that charge.  Cowboys got a day-one talent for next to nothing.  If it was not true, I hope Collins sued that pants of that woman for lying about him.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-29-2019, 05:40 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: See here is what I'm talking about.

Hart's track record is that of a complete suck-ass.

Low ratings, eyes, whatever back it up.

It's not some fabrication or false narrative.

This is truth.

Is he the worst we've seen start?  Hell no...  but that's not saying much!!

But he's just not what you are making him out to be....

He is a middle of the road starting RT in the NFL and at just 24 years of age, has upside.  Hart played next to a rookie, and the line helped Mixon average 4.9 YPC in 2018.  That was the highest a Bengal running back has had in over a decade, I believe.  And before you attribute it all to Mixon, he only averaged 3.5 YPC in 2017.

A line is as much about how it plays as a unit than just the individual ratings, and they were much better with Hart than with Ogbuehi and Fisher.

I put in another post that Whit didn't start at LT exclusively until his fourth year in the league and he struggled mightily early on in his career.  Whit was a high 2nd rounder, and was 25 when he started his career in the NFL.  Hart is just now 24.  He earned a middle of the road contract and that is exactly what he got.

Now, this thread seems to be going in two different directions:  some are pissed about Troy's comments, and some are pissed about Hart's deal.

I don't agree with what Troy said, but it is more about how he said it than the actual message.  He came off as condescending and arrogant.  I can tell you that Troy Blackburn is a first class man that not only cares a great deal about his team and the city, but is a very good person.  I'm sure he regrets spouting off in the manor he did, but that is water under the bridge.  

He is also partly responsible for Marvin being let go and allowed Zack to build his own staff.  A lot of other coaches were handed an existing staff.  This is quite a shift for the Bengals.  They realized they needed a clean sheet from the coaching perspective and we have that now.  I, for one, am extremely excited to see what this team can become with the new coaching staff.  

In the end, it all boils down to this draft.  They have to nail it.  Do that, and this season could be a really fun time.  Whiff on your first two picks like Ced and Fish, and it will be a long season.  

[*ochocincos*]

(03-30-2019, 08:34 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: But he's just not what you are making him out to be....

He is a middle of the road starting RT in the NFL and at just 24 years of age, has upside.  Hart played next to a rookie, and the line helped Mixon average 4.9 YPC in 2018.  That was the highest a Bengal running back has had in over a decade, I believe.  And before you attribute it all to Mixon, he only averaged 3.5 YPC in 2017.

A line is as much about how it plays as a unit than just the individual ratings, and they were much better with Hart than with Ogbuehi and Fisher.

I put in another post that Whit didn't start at LT exclusively until his fourth year in the league and he struggled mightily early on in his career.  Whit was a high 2nd rounder, and was 25 when he started his career in the NFL.  Hart is just now 24.  He earned a middle of the road contract and that is exactly what he got.

Now, this thread seems to be going in two different directions:  some are pissed about Troy's comments, and some are pissed about Hart's deal.

I don't agree with what Troy said, but it is more about how he said it than the actual message.  He came off as condescending and arrogant.  I can tell you that Troy Blackburn is a first class man that not only cares a great deal about his team and the city, but is a very good person.  I'm sure he regrets spouting off in the manor he did, but that is water under the bridge.  

He is also partly responsible for Marvin being let go and allowed Zack to build his own staff.  A lot of other coaches were handed an existing staff.  This is quite a shift for the Bengals.  They realized they needed a clean sheet from the coaching perspective and we have that now.  I, for one, am extremely excited to see what this team can become with the new coaching staff.  

In the end, it all boils down to this draft.  They have to nail it.  Do that, and this season could be a really fun time.  Whiff on your first two picks like Ced and Fish, and it will be a long season.  

You are right, it boils down to the draft. It didn’t necessarily have to if the Bengals chose to prioritize FA more/better than they did. They chose quantity over quality. Troy said as much in his statement. It puts a lot of pressure on the draft. While we don’t know how Taylor’s crew will approach the draft, past history suggests the Bengals will look to an outside-in approach of QB, WR, OT, CB, or OLB when selecting in top 15. They also haven’t traditionally felt obligation to get an immediate contributor as a rookie. We’ll see in 4 weeks I guess.


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[*ochocincos*]

(03-30-2019, 08:34 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: But he's just not what you are making him out to be....

He is a middle of the road starting RT in the NFL and at just 24 years of age, has upside.  Hart played next to a rookie, and the line helped Mixon average 4.9 YPC in 2018.  That was the highest a Bengal running back has had in over a decade, I believe.  And before you attribute it all to Mixon, he only averaged 3.5 YPC in 2017.

A line is as much about how it plays as a unit than just the individual ratings, and they were much better with Hart than with Ogbuehi and Fisher.

I put in another post that Whit didn't start at LT exclusively until his fourth year in the league and he struggled mightily early on in his career.  Whit was a high 2nd rounder, and was 25 when he started his career in the NFL.  Hart is just now 24.  He earned a middle of the road contract and that is exactly what he got.

Now, this thread seems to be going in two different directions:  some are pissed about Troy's comments, and some are pissed about Hart's deal.

I don't agree with what Troy said, but it is more about how he said it than the actual message.  He came off as condescending and arrogant.  I can tell you that Troy Blackburn is a first class man that not only cares a great deal about his team and the city, but is a very good person.  I'm sure he regrets spouting off in the manor he did, but that is water under the bridge.  

He is also partly responsible for Marvin being let go and allowed Zack to build his own staff.  A lot of other coaches were handed an existing staff.  This is quite a shift for the Bengals.  They realized they needed a clean sheet from the coaching perspective and we have that now.  I, for one, am extremely excited to see what this team can become with the new coaching staff.  

In the end, it all boils down to this draft.  They have to nail it.  Do that, and this season could be a really fun time.  Whiff on your first two picks like Ced and Fish, and it will be a long season.  

You are right, it boils down to the draft. It didn’t necessarily have to if the Bengals chose to prioritize FA more/better than they did. They chose quantity over quality. Troy said as much in his statement. It puts a lot of pressure on the draft. While we don’t know how Taylor’s crew will approach the draft, past history suggests the Bengals will look to an outside-in approach of QB, WR, OT, CB, or OLB when selecting in top 15. They also haven’t traditionally felt obligation to get an immediate contributor as a rookie. We’ll see in 4 weeks I guess.


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[THE PISTONS]

(03-30-2019, 07:28 AM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: A bit of a Freudian slip there.

He's essentially saying that they won't draft a tackle high this year.

He's either blowing smoke or conveying the Bengals' draft plans to anyone willing to listen.

On-Topic: What's wrong with picking up a tackle in the early rounds and betting your season on them? A draft pick has upside and can get better. Hart has been in the league for some time and people already knows who he is, he stinks! The only problem with this is that the Bengals have gotten bad at judging talent at offensive tackle. The Bengals drafted 2 in a row in the 2015 draft (Cerdirc Ogbughei and Jake Fisher). Ogbughei's career is on its last legs in Jacksonville and Fisher was so bad that he decided to become a tight end this offseason.

No, you can't go in a time machine and get a young Willie Anderson. Want to know what you could've done? Matched the Rams' offer for Andrew Whitworth! Every year Big Whit has a pro-bowl caliber year as a Ram embarrasses the Bengals' front office.

We'd never do such a foolish thing as draft a lineman high and rely on them to start!

Except if it's Russell Bodine in the 4th Round. Handed the starting job day 1.

Then last year, we had Ced who was a bust that we knew. Fisher who had heart issues and poor play. And we signed Bobby Hart who was waived by the Giants for allegedly quitting on the team but he was also terrible. We let that 3 headed monster 'compete' for the starting job. No need to rely on a rookie!

Price was penciled in to start at Center last year as a rookie. They knew Bodine was leaving. They knew Hopkins was terrible at Guard the year before. They relied on Price without signing some veteran off the street.

Same with Zeitler who was penciled in to start from Day 1 at Guard. It's not like they signed some underwhelming free agent under the guise not relying on a rookie.

And they clearly value lower draft picks or their whole PR campaign about Comp Picks being valuable just isn't accurate.

It sounds like when you lift the veil off of the PR curtain...what they say actually isn't consistent. It's rationalization.