The Cleveland Browns signed Chris Hubbard last year for 5 years 36.5 he will have a 7+mil cap hit this year. They resigned Greg Robinson for 1 year 7+mil which is the cap hit also...Neither of these guys were very good. I know someone will say their line ranked high in the pff rankings but that was due to the scores of their interior players which they traded one.

We complain about Bobby Hart but his contract is actually better than both of those. By giving him a 3 year deal the Bengals were able to spread out the cap hits and kept the dead cap down if they choose to move on from him in 2020 at 2m(1m if designated after June 1st cut) and 2021 at 1m (500k June 1st cut).

The money is not what people should be complaining about...

Honestly, I don't think this FA really removed anything for what we thought was a need/upgrade prior to FA starting.
Still need an upgrade at LB, OT, DT. TE depth still a need.
At this point, the Bengals need to knock the draft out of the park to convince me that they will become a contender again.

(03-29-2019, 08:15 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: His comments are condescending and uncalled for. Yeah, Troy, you cannot go to Walmart to find an NFL right tackle brainiac. He could of said all of what you said and I wouldn't have a problem with it. But to come off like a smug prick is lame, especially after fans stopped showing up last year and you're trying to go through a re-imaging process. 

I agree that Troy stepped over a line in his conversation, but that wasn't my point as much as the CONTENT of his message, which is that Hart is a solid option and if you look around the league, he was probably our best option. 

(03-29-2019, 10:07 AM)Synric Wrote: The Cleveland Browns signed Chris Hubbard last year for 5 years 36.5 he will have a 7+mil cap hit this year. They resigned Greg Robinson for 1 year 7+mil which is the cap hit also...Neither of these guys were very good. I know someone will say their line ranked high in the pff rankings but that was due to the scores of their interior players which they traded one.

We complain about Bobby Hart but his contract is actually better than both of those. By giving him a 3 year deal the Bengals were able to spread out the cap hits and kept the dead cap down if they choose to move on from him in 2020 at 2m(1m if designated after June 1st cut) and 2021 at 1m (500k June 1st cut).

The money is not what people should be complaining about...

Just because Bobby Hart was signed to a lesser cap hit than Greg Robinson doesn't mean the signing was good. A "satisfactory" signing for Bobby Hart would have been in the realm of $3.5 mill a year or less, preferably just a one-year deal. The reduced cap hit this year isn't really that big of a deal since the team is still holding onto $25 mill in cap space for 2019. 

I think you are giving the Bengals the benefit of the doubt that they would cut Hart after this season if he doesn't perform well, which goes against their typical mode of operation. But I guess we'll see.

(03-29-2019, 09:00 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Hart is awful, and couldn’t even keep his job on the NYG who had an arguably worse OL than us.

Iirc you were also pretty high on Redmond, so maybe you’re not the best judge when in comes to olinemen...

How did our run game fare?  Best YPC in nearly a decade?  How did Andrew Whitworth fare early in his career as an OT?  Not very well.  Maybe you aren't the best judge when it comes to olinemen?

(03-28-2019, 03:08 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Troy's answer is a little cocky from a FO wanting to earn the trust of the fanbase back. I had a light "I want to punch him in the face" moment for a few seconds while reading, but over it now. I'm sure someone will sit him down after that and discuss what an ass hat he made of himself. Or, maybe he will read my post.

This was my thought exactly (except I still want to punch him in the face ...).  He's technically right -- we needed an RT, Hart may have been our our most reasonable option in FA, now we don't have to reach for an RT in the draft, we may have an opportunity to upgrade in the draft or in FA next year, yadda yadda.  We all recognize this.  But don't be such a dick about it ... sounds like a whiny teenager.

(03-29-2019, 09:54 AM)Whatever Wrote: The scouts thing is the way it is because that's what Mike's dad thought was best.  That's more of a case of being stuck in the past than cheap.  It's a double edged sword, though.  We've had some great drafts under that system, but when you start having success and your staff gets picked over, it's a double blow.

A hidden issue is that Mike has spent a ton of money consolidating the family's ownership of the team.  Paul Brown actually only had a very small stake in the team when it was founded.  Over the years he bought out some of his partners to get a 51% majority, then stopped.  

I would say the stadium situation is another factor.  PBS is going to need big renovations to keep up in a few years and there's not going to be tax dollars for it.

That's all fair analysis.

Draft analysis isn't as easy as great drafting or poor drafting. Even bad front offices will occasionally draft some good players. It's consistency.

On a team, even bad teams...there are going to be some guys that put up decent stats. But, the challenge is getting enough talent to hit that tipping point to be one of the best teams in the league.

Out of the last 27 years, I'd say we had rosters that I felt were good enough to win in the playoffs 2-3 times. That is VERY low.

(03-29-2019, 10:11 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Honestly, I don't think this FA really removed anything for what we thought was a need/upgrade prior to FA starting.
Still need an upgrade at LB, OT, DT. TE depth still a need.
At this point, the Bengals need to knock the draft out of the park to convince me that they will become a contender again.

That's where I'm at. IF we clearly upgraded 2-3 positions, I'd feel better. We didn't.

We need to rely on health and other teams in the division getting worse.

(03-29-2019, 10:35 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: That's where I'm at. IF we clearly upgraded 2-3 positions, I'd feel better. We didn't.

We need to rely on health and other teams in the division getting worse.

If the Bengals can come out of the draft with a clear upgrade at LB, OL, and either DT or TE, I'll feel better.

(03-28-2019, 07:22 PM)BengalChris Wrote: I've now come to the conclusion that Troy Blackburn is an idiot. Katie married someone just like her father.

Dear Troy,

People did not dislike the signing of Hart because he was signed. Everyone more or less expected that he would be signed as a backup.

What people didn't like it the team giving one of the worst RTs in the league such a big contract. For a front office that preaches fruggleness, it was a pretty shocking contract amount.

And, since when was Hart or a 3rd round pick the only options for the team at RT?

The only job the front office has is to get the best talent possible on the team while staying within the salary cap.

That's basically one sentence which clearly delineates the entire job of the front office. Some of the talent is going to come from the draft, some from free agents who are looking for a team to play for.

But, I will admit that the Hart signing was a lot better than if the team had re-signed Ogbuehi, although I'm convinced the team considered it.

 

Right on.....but about that 3rd round part, I think he meant something like "are you willing to leverage the position on a 3rd round rookie, or Bobby Hart?"  On the surface, it sounds like the 3rd round would be the first time they are willing to look at OT prospects, but I don't think, or certainly hope not, that is their philosophy.  You don't want to tip your hand about your draft plan.....and RT does not get the glory and draft positioning of LT.  

Let us not forget, signing Hart left money on the table for Eifert and Dennard.  If we overspend on Brown or the kid out of Miami (name escapes me at the moment), we probably don't sign one of those two players.

Make no bones about it, we are STILL suffering from the Ole'hi and Fisher picks.  

(03-29-2019, 10:32 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: How did our run game fare?  Best YPC in nearly a decade?  How did Andrew Whitworth fare early in his career as an OT?  Not very well.  Maybe you aren't the best judge when it comes to olinemen?

I don't know that you can put the run game success all on the line. I think Mixon is an extraordinary talent that is able to run behind a bad line and gain yardage.

(03-29-2019, 10:39 AM)ochocincos Wrote: If the Bengals can come out of the draft with a clear upgrade at LB, OL, and either DT or TE, I'll feel better.

We'll probably nab 1 starter. The rest won't be as clear-cut. You know how that goes.

(03-29-2019, 10:29 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I agree that Troy stepped over a line in his conversation, but that wasn't my point as much as the CONTENT of his message, which is that Hart is a solid option and if you look around the league, he was probably our best option. 

Yes, but they did not need to give him such a huge pay raise and length. There's a middle ground a lot of us are arguing here. It's not they signed him, it's they seemingly made him a priority, gave him a huge pay raise for under performing, and added insurance years. Meanwhile, they're not even wanting to re-up AJ and AD because....they want THEM to basically prove it? Seriously? That's the message? If you're young and bad, we'll give you a shot. If you're good at your job but have some down years due to injuries or whatever, you better earn it. 

(03-29-2019, 10:07 AM)Synric Wrote: The Cleveland Browns signed Chris Hubbard last year for 5 years 36.5 he will have a 7+mil cap hit this year. They resigned Greg Robinson for 1 year 7+mil which is the cap hit also...Neither of these guys were very good. I know someone will say their line ranked high in the pff rankings but that was due to the scores of their interior players which they traded one.

We complain about Bobby Hart but his contract is actually better than both of those. By giving him a 3 year deal the Bengals were able to spread out the cap hits and kept the dead cap down if they choose to move on from him in 2020 at 2m(1m if designated after June 1st cut) and 2021 at 1m (500k June 1st cut).

The money is not what people should be complaining about...

I am not a fan of the Hart money, but I do agree that there was nothing better out there and we couldn't lose our RT. I have softened my displeasure on the signing since it happened. Seeing what other teams were acquiring or resigning RTs for makes me not so upset anymore. Especially given the talent level of the other options and other RTs retained by their teams. 

Maybe all of the Heat from the fans and Media will light a Fire under Troy and Company to take an Offensive Tackle higher in the Draft than they may have been going to previously.

People screamed for a Center last year and the Brown Family drafted one high.

Now a Linebacker is being screamed for and they may aim to please again in round 1.

Then maybe take a 2nd or 3rd round Offensive Tackle to get the Heat from the fans and Media off of them.

Mike may not have let fans and media drive his decisions but Troy & Company may have thinner skin which could end up being a good thing.

(03-29-2019, 10:32 AM)shanebo Wrote: This was my thought exactly (except I still want to punch him in the face ...).  He's technically right -- we needed an RT, Hart may have been our our most reasonable option in FA, now we don't have to reach for an RT in the draft, we may have an opportunity to upgrade in the draft or in FA next year, yadda yadda.  We all recognize this.  But don't be such a dick about it ... sounds like a whiny teenager.

Yep, this is the crux of it....

(03-29-2019, 10:43 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I don't know that you can put the run game success all on the line. I think Mixon is an extraordinary talent that is able to run behind a bad line and gain yardage.

....but he wasn't able to do that the year before, nor was Gio.  The line was a part of the improved run game.  ESPECIALLY when everyone was hurt, and Driskell was back there. Pass blocking was a bit of a liability though...

(03-29-2019, 10:46 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Yes, but they did not need to give him such a huge pay raise and length. There's a middle ground a lot of us are arguing here. It's not they signed him, it's they seemingly made him a priority, gave him a huge pay raise for under performing, and added insurance years. Meanwhile, they're not even wanting to re-up AJ and AD because....they want THEM to basically prove it? Seriously? That's the message? If you're young and bad, we'll give you a shot. If you're good at your job but have some down years due to injuries or whatever, you better earn it. 

All signs point to Mike Brown definitely wanting to re-up AJ Green.  Dalton will negotiate after this season, the way it reads.

(03-29-2019, 10:56 AM)Wyche Wrote: ....but he wasn't able to do that the year before, nor was Gio.  The line was a part of the improved run game.  ESPECIALLY when everyone was hurt, and Driskell was back there.  Pass blocking was a bit of a liability though...

Ya think?

With regards to Hart, he gave up 10 sacks and over 35 pressures? How many penalties? There is no defending his performance. He's not Andrew Whitworth. And you don't pay for some mythical potential. You pay for results. The market also helps determine worth, and we had no competition for Hart's services. 

With the run game, I think people aren't talking about the switch from Pollack to Turner enough. Under Pollack, we had our best YPC ranking since 2000. I'm not so sure we should expect that success to continue under Turner. There might be a drop off.

(03-29-2019, 10:47 AM)Beaker Wrote: I am not a fan of the Hart money, but I do agree that there was nothing better out there and we couldn't lose our RT. I have softened my displeasure on the signing since it happened. Seeing what other teams were acquiring or resigning RTs for makes me not so upset anymore. Especially given the talent level of the other options and other RTs retained by their teams. 

You were initially upset when Hart was signed?

It's funny that a lot of the people who call me negative also disliked moves.