ZT Raves About Bengals Owner Mike Brown

[THE PISTONS]

(03-30-2019, 09:52 AM)OSUfan Wrote: Coaching, bad luck, injuries, player production...………...shall I go on. As stated the line between winning and losing in the NFL is a very fine one.

Are those things all exclusive to the Bengals or do other teams deal with them too?

Coaching is solely the responsibility for management. No other owner would keep a coach for 15 years and 0-7 in the playoffs. It just doesn't happen.

[OSUfan]

(03-30-2019, 10:39 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Are those things all exclusive to the Bengals or do other teams deal with them too?

Coaching is solely the responsibility for management. No other owner would keep a coach for 15 years and 0-7 in the playoffs. It just doesn't happen.

All teams deal with it. That is why over the last 14 years you had the potential to have 28 different teams in the Super Bowl. Guess what you haven't. I believe it is 17 teams have been in the Super Bowl over that period. So as you can see the situation is not exclusive to the Bengals franchise.

The flip side of what you are saying is that the Bengals made the playoffs 7 times in 15 years and there are teams that would have loved to have had that happen.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-30-2019, 10:43 AM)OSUfan Wrote: All teams deal with it. That is why over the last 14 years you had the potential to have 28 different teams in the Super Bowl. Guess what you haven't. I believe it is 17 teams have been in the Super Bowl over that period. So as you can see the situation is not exclusive to the Bengals franchise.

The flip side of what you are saying is that the Bengals made the playoffs 7 times in 15 years and there are teams that would have loved to have had that happen.

Since we last won a playoff game, the only teams to not play in a Super Bowl during this span are:


Jets
Dolphins
Browns
Bengals
Texans
Jaguars
Chiefs
Lions
Vikings

Getting to the Super Bowl is more common than you think.

[OSUfan]

(03-30-2019, 10:47 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Since we last won a playoff game, the only teams to not play in a Super Bowl during this span are:


Jets
Dolphins
Browns
Bengals
Texans
Jaguars
Chiefs
Lions
Vikings

Getting to the Super Bowl is more common than you think.

So thank you for showing that the issue is not exclusive to the Bengals. You could also be in the position of Jacksonville, Cleveland, Detroit, and Houston that have never been to the Super Bowl.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-30-2019, 10:49 AM)OSUfan Wrote: So thank you for showing that the issue is not exclusive to the Bengals. You could also be in the position of Jacksonville, Cleveland, Detroit, and Houston that have never been to the Super Bowl.

The no SB issue is shared by those several teams. (And Jacksonville, Houston, and Cleveland are expansion teams.)

The lack of a playoff win issue is solely shared by us.

Since we last won a playoff game:

- Every team besides the Browns, Texans and Lions has won at least 4 playoff games

- 11 teams have won at least 11 playoff games
- 26 teams have at least 5 playoff wins, which is how many the Bengals have in their history
- 13 teams have been to multiple Super Bowls

[Socal Bengals fan]

At this point I’ll be happy with a .500 record.

[Shake n Blake]

(03-29-2019, 06:06 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Seriously, if you're mad at ZT for complementing his boss, you need to pull your head out of your butt. This is the definition of complaining just to complain.

I'm not mad, personally. Just having a little fun with it.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(03-30-2019, 10:38 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Well I doubt MB is clueless. He's essentially been around football his whole life so I know he's picked things up.

I think it's his business model that's broken.

Imagine IF like mid-1990 the Bengals hire a GM like John Dorsey. Law of averages state they probably have 4-5 playoff wins right now and a Super Bowl appearance over that span.

They chose to just make minor tweaks to the model. Then when they made the playoffs 5 years in a row, they thought that was the pinnacle of success and the Model Model article came out.

Was thinking the same thing this morning. Those 5 playoff appearances are actually bad for the franchise because Mikey sees them as successes, he can say his 'model' works because it has in the past. So why change it. 

"Imagine IF like mid-1990 the Bengals hire a GM like John Dorsey. Law of averages state they probably have 4-5 playoff wins right now and a Super Bowl appearance over that span." And if he had done this his franchise would be worth another $500 million or so. Which is why he is a dumb businessman. 

[grampahol]

If anyone was expecting Zac to tell us all how horrible his new boss is and how cheap and completely inept Mike Brown is you're in for quite a bit of disappointment. But go ahead and publicly slander your own boss and everyone whoever gave you a chance to succeed and see how long it takes for you to end up in the unemployment line.. I suspect it would be a bit quicker than you initially imagined. 

[BengalsRocker]

(03-30-2019, 02:28 PM)grampahol Wrote: If anyone was expecting Zac to tell us all how horrible his new boss is and how cheap and completely inept Mike Brown is you're in for quite a bit of disappointment. But go ahead and publicly slander your own boss and everyone whoever gave you a chance to succeed and see how long it takes for you to end up in the unemployment line.. I suspect it would be a bit quicker than you initially imagined. 

Nobody has said they expect him to trash on Mike.

ZT doesn't have to gush like a schoolgirl about her first crush either.

Just sayin'.

[Au165]

I think the disconnect is that people believe because Mike Brown doesn’t approach how to win like we’d like he simply doesn’t want to win. I believe Mike Brown wants to desperately win because of who his father is, I however think he wants to win his way similar to someone like Jerry Jones (against normal conventions). I think if you sit and talk with Brown like Taylor has Brown probably is passionate about wanting to win, so I would t say anything Taylor is doing is kissing ass it’s just about perspective.

[OSUfan]

(03-30-2019, 03:31 PM)Au165 Wrote: I think the disconnect is that people believe because Mike Brown doesn’t approach how to win like we’d like he simply doesn’t want to win. I believe Mike Brown wants to desperately win because of who his father is, I however think he wants to win his way similar to someone like Jerry Jones (against normal conventions). I think if you sit and talk with Brown like Taylor has Brown probably is passionate about wanting to win, so I would t say anything Taylor is doing is kissing ass it’s just about perspective.

Excellent post!

[Shake n Blake]

(03-30-2019, 03:31 PM)Au165 Wrote: I think the disconnect is that people believe because Mike Brown doesn’t approach how to win like we’d like he simply doesn’t want to win. I believe Mike Brown wants to desperately win because of who his father is, I however think he wants to win his way similar to someone like Jerry Jones (against normal conventions). I think if you sit and talk with Brown like Taylor has Brown probably is passionate about wanting to win, so I would t say anything Taylor is doing is kissing ass it’s just about perspective.

You can talk about wanting to win til you're blue in the face, but if you keep a bare-bones scouting department, no "real" GM, no practice facility and stock your front office with family members, all in the face of a near-30 year streak of no playoff wins...it says that max profits matter more than winning.

"Mike's way" is max profits. So his "desire to win" is about equivalent to me wanting an American Stratocaster. Sure, I'd love to have one, but I ain't dropping $1400 for a guitar anytime soon.

[BengalsRocker]

(03-30-2019, 03:51 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: You can talk about wanting to win til you're blue in the face, but if you keep a bare-bones scouting department, no "real" GM, no practice facility and stock your front office with family members, all in the face of a near-30 year streak of no playoff wins...it says that max profits matter more than winning.

"Mike's way" is max profits. So his "desire to win" is about equivalent to me wanting an American Stratocaster. Sure, I'd love to have one, but I ain't dropping $1400 for a guitar anytime soon.

But you would if you could.

He can but he won't.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-30-2019, 02:03 PM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: Was thinking the same thing this morning. Those 5 playoff appearances are actually bad for the franchise because Mikey sees them as successes, he can say his 'model' works because it has in the past. So why change it. 

"Imagine IF like mid-1990 the Bengals hire a GM like John Dorsey. Law of averages state they probably have 4-5 playoff wins right now and a Super Bowl appearance over that span." And if he had done this his franchise would be worth another $500 million or so. Which is why he is a dumb businessman. 

You hear about the 5 playoff appearances in a row from the homers on the board a lot. It does indicate that we're not among the worst of the worst of the NFL...but we haven't been good enough to win a playoff game in 27 years. That's an astounding fact.

I will say that under Marvin we have been much more of an average to above average regular season team...but just can't win a playoff game. In the playoffs it's all about weaknesses and exploiting them. Teams have been able to easily gameplan against us and beat us there. Also we generally gave up lots of rushing yardage in most games.

In 2015, people tend to forget that Leveon Bell was out of that game. But, they remember Dalton was out. What they don't remember is that Fitzgerald Toussant, Jordan Todman, and company rushed for 167 yards against us. Those were journeyman backs. We couldn't stop them. Not even the great Mike Zimmer. Strengths of this team meltdown in the playoffs. 

[Beaker]

(03-30-2019, 05:39 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: You hear about the 5 playoff appearances in a row from the homers on the board a lot. It does indicate that we're not among the worst of the worst of the NFL...but we haven't been good enough to win a playoff game in 27 years. That's an astounding fact.

So people are homers if they present the fact that the Bengals went to 7 playoff in 11 years as evidence that the Bengals don't suck, but you can keep throwing out the no playoff wins stat and claim that they do suck and that makes you a realist? Interesting how your mind justifies that. 

[OSUfan]

(03-30-2019, 03:51 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: You can talk about wanting to win til you're blue in the face, but if you keep a bare-bones scouting department, no "real" GM, no practice facility and stock your front office with family members, all in the face of a near-30 year streak of no playoff wins...it says that max profits matter more than winning.

"Mike's way" is max profits. So his "desire to win" is about equivalent to me wanting an American Stratocaster. Sure, I'd love to have one, but I ain't dropping $1400 for a guitar anytime soon.

Isn't being in business about maximizing profits?

That bare bones scouting department has for many years produced some of the best drafts in the league whether you care to admit it or not. No real GM? Mike Brown has been the GM whether you like it or not.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-30-2019, 07:47 PM)Beaker Wrote: So people are homers if they present the fact that the Bengals went to 7 playoff in 11 years as evidence that the Bengals don't suck, but you can keep throwing out the no playoff wins stat and claim that they do suck and that makes you a realist? Interesting how your mind justifies that. 

It's just like how people shift the debate on free agency to all players in free agency are overpaid. Nobody says the Bengals suck during the regular season. They've been competitive during the regular season under Marvin.

The no playoff wins in 27+ years is an astounding stat. It essentially means that over 27 years, we've never had a team that was one of the 8 best teams in the league.

EVERY OTHER TEAM in the NFL has won playoff games over that span and something like all but 5 teams have played in a Super Bowl.

I've said in numerous posts that under Marvin Lewis the Bengals have atleast been competitive during the regular season. Somehow the no playoff wins in 27+ years gets shifted by homers into...the Bengals are the absolute worst team in the NFL.

Is the goal in the NFL to be competitive and occasionally make the playoffs in the NFL? Or is it to win playoff games and eventually get to a SB and win?

No teams fanbase would be touting making the playoffs 7 times in 27 years and winning 0 of those playoffs games as success.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-30-2019, 08:14 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Isn't being in business about maximizing profits?

That bare bones scouting department has for many years produced some of the best drafts in the league whether you care to admit it or not. No real GM? Mike Brown has been the GM whether you like it or not.

 The Dalton, Green, Boling draft was great. The Atkins/Dunlap draft was great.

They haven't drafted a Pro Bowl player since 2013 and that is Eifert who is always hurt. Yes 0 Pro Bowl players drafted in the last 5 drafts.

Then before that, the last Pro Bowl player they drafted...was Dalton and Green in 2011.

Teams can't draft 3 Pro Bowl players over the past 8 drafts and claim to be great at drafting.

[Shake n Blake]

(03-30-2019, 04:07 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: But you would if you could.

He can but he won't.

Mike was able to buy out minority ownership a few years ago for $200+ million. So he definitely can.

Also, the fact that he did that but passed on a practice facility (and some of the other things I mentioned) shows where his priorities are.

(03-30-2019, 08:14 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Isn't being in business about maximizing profits?

That bare bones scouting department has for many years produced some of the best drafts in the league whether you care to admit it or not. No real GM? Mike Brown has been the GM whether you like it or not.

Of course teams want to make profit. Do they employ nothing but family? Do they have practice facilities? Do they employ a number of scouts on par with the rest of the league? That's the difference.

I have not been very impressed by our recent drafting tbh, and even if the drafts were solid, why would anyone not want more scouts? Are we to believe Mike and co are smarter than 31 other front offices? Yes, Mike Brown has been the "GM"...hence why I said "real".