Trade Idea involving Jets

[fredtoast]

(04-11-2019, 07:02 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: I would bet that all or most had won at least a playoff game. You are saying Whit is as good now as he was when he was 25? Did Johnny U win a SB? Steve Young was stuck behind Montana, Staubach went four years in the Navy after college, Theisman played in Canada for four years, Williams played on the seventies version of the Browns.

So what is your point?  Are you claiming that players never age if they play in Canada, spend time in the Navy, sit the bench behind another player, or play on a bad team?

[Catmandude123]

(04-11-2019, 06:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Tell it to this guy.  He thinks differently

Six to nine wins gets you nothing. I guess you would be happy with a participation trophy every year?

[XsandOs]

(04-11-2019, 05:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: We were a Super Bowl contender in 2015 with Dalton at QB.  We can do it again. 

Agreed.

And trading your only established receiver makes no sense. When Cleveland guaranteed last year that they would beat us if AJ didn't play - they were right. Our pass offense doesn't get much respect without AJ.

This thread makes no sense....

In principle, yes - you do want to trade veterans from whom you can get good value in return and get cap space. But only if you have viable replacement, and that veteran is not the heart of an aspect of your Team.

We have no viable replacement for him on the roster and none in the draft.

You can't replace AJ with Boyd or Ross. Even if could, who would replace them? Isabella? Really?

Again, in principle, the proposed makes sense. But not when it involves losing AJ.

[Catmandude123]

(04-11-2019, 07:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So what is your point?  Are you claiming that players never age if they play in Canada, spend time in the Navy, sit the bench behind another player, or play on a bad team?

My point is if you are not playing in the Nfl or play behind the GOAT its hard to win the Super bowl. Dalton has played eight full seasons BTW Johnny U ever win a SB So Dalton is as good or better than JU?

[yang]

(04-11-2019, 07:10 PM)XsandOs Wrote: Agreed.

And trading your only established receiver makes no sense. When Cleveland guaranteed last year that they would beat us if AJ didn't play - they were right. Our pass offense doesn't get much respect without AJ.

This thread makes no sense....

In principle, yes - you do want to trade veterans from whom you can get good value in return and get cap space. But only if you have viable replacement, and that veteran is not the heart of an aspect of your Team.

We have no viable replacement for him on the roster and none in the draft.

You can't replace AJ with Boyd or Ross. Even if could, who would replace them? Isabella? Really?

Again, in principle, the proposed makes sense. But not when it involves losing AJ.

I'm jumping in late and for what it's worth consider a couple possible opposing viewpoints.   How many successful teams in the league sign 31 year old receivers that have been recently injured a lot to large long term deals.   A contract for AJ will likely be 4 years/ 80 million.  Can you use that 20 million more wisely in other areas?  Would New England do this?  (No).   In fact, most successful teams wouldn't do it.   

In favor of signing him is the fact that the Bengals spend so little that 20 million of cap space isn't actually a big %/cap for us.   But add in a new deal for Boyd (10 Million year) and Ross's deal and the others and we would probably have the largest portion of cap going to receivers.  In other words, no, successful teams don't do this.  But for the Bengals he so popular and one of the few positives you really can't not do it.  

The sensible thing to do is let him ride out this year and see if he stays healthy and then tag him next year if he does well.  Now he's 33 and everything changes.  Sucks for AJ, but it's what good teams do. 

[Catmandude123]

(04-11-2019, 07:30 PM)yang Wrote: I'm jumping in late and for what it's worth consider a couple possible opposing viewpoints.   How many successful teams in the league sign 31 year old receivers that have been recently injured a lot to large long term deals.   A contract for AJ will likely be 4 years/ 80 million.  Can you use that 20 million more wisely in other areas?  Would New England do this?  (No).   In fact, most successful teams wouldn't do it.   

In favor of signing him is the fact that the Bengals spend so little that 20 million of cap space isn't actually a big %/cap for us.   But add in a new deal for Boyd (10 Million year) and Ross's deal and the others and we would probably have the largest portion of cap going to receivers.  In other words, no, successful teams don't do this.  But for the Bengals he so popular and one of the few positives you really can't not do it.  

The sensible thing to do is let him ride out this year and see if he stays healthy and then tag him next year if he does well.  Now he's 33 and everything changes.  Sucks for AJ, but it's what good teams do. 

If they keep him the guaranteed money would have to be low ( 20 mil) and give the team an easy out if he continues to be injury prone.

[XsandOs]

(04-11-2019, 07:30 PM)yang Wrote: I'm jumping in late and for what it's worth consider a couple possible opposing viewpoints.   How many successful teams in the league sign 31 year old receivers that have been recently injured a lot to large long term deals.   A contract for AJ will likely be 4 years/ 80 million.  Can you use that 20 million more wisely in other areas?  Would New England do this?  (No).   In fact, most successful teams wouldn't do it.   

In favor of signing him is the fact that the Bengals spend so little that 20 million of cap space isn't actually a big %/cap for us.   But add in a new deal for Boyd (10 Million year) and Ross's deal and the others and we would probably have the largest portion of cap going to receivers.  In other words, no, successful teams don't do this.  But for the Bengals he so popular and one of the few positives you really can't not do it.  

The sensible thing to do is let him ride out this year and see if he stays healthy and then tag him next year if he does well.  Now he's 33 and everything changes.  Sucks for AJ, but it's what good teams do. 

In theory, it makes sense. But even then, it would be under the premise that you can replace that player.

There is no one on the roster, FA, or draft, who can replace AJ.

NE does not allocate a large percentage to WRs in general. And the fact is that they have never drafted a WR the caliber of AJ, so one can't make an analogous reference.

Antonio Brown is the same age as AJ.

[*jason*]

If we're gonna trade the Jets for anything, I'd try to figure out how to take Robi Anderson off their hands. I wouldn't go crazy to get him, but that's the number 3 WR that we need...

Maybe throw in Auden Tate to sweeten the deal...

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-11-2019, 10:13 PM)XsandOs Wrote: In theory, it makes sense. But even then, it would be under the premise that you can replace that player.

There is no one on the roster, FA, or draft, who can replace AJ.

NE does not allocate a large percentage to WRs in general. And the fact is that they have never drafted a WR the caliber of AJ, so one can't make an analogous reference.

Antonio Brown is the same age as AJ.

This is a ridiculous statement.  Of course he can be replaced.  He is a fringe top 10 WR as it is...he is just the best we have had since Chad Johnson.  

[OSUfan]

Gotta love the fantasy world.

[OSUfan]

(04-12-2019, 06:38 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: This is a ridiculous statement.  Of course he can be replaced.  He is a fringe top 10 WR as it is...he is just the best we have had since Chad Johnson.  

Fringe top 10? LMAO

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-12-2019, 06:43 AM)OSUfan Wrote: Fringe top 10? LMAO

OBJ
Antonio Brown 
Deandre Hopkins
Michael Thomas
Tyreek Hill
Adam Thielen
Davante Adams
TY Hilton
Julio Jones
Stefan Diggs

That's 10 WRs that I would list at or near the top of the NFL right now, and AJ would be at or near the bottom of that list.  We are blinded by the fact that he is our best WR but he is not a top 5 WR in the NFL any more.  He is likely a fringe top 10, as I said.  

[fredtoast]

(04-11-2019, 07:09 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Six to nine wins gets you nothing. 

Look over your head.  There is a point up there.  Let me see if I can make it simple enough for you to understand.

First you said Dalton past controls how many wins he will get in the future.  Then you said what Dalton did in the past has no effect on what will happen in the future.  You completely contradicted yourself because you wanted to use the bad seasons against Dalton but refuse to give him any credit for his success.

Get it now?

(04-11-2019, 07:09 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: I guess you would be happy with a participation trophy every year?

The more you make up lies to build strawmen the more embarrassed I get for you.  Seriously, making these types of arguments are basically admitting you don't have a legitimate point to make.

[Schmitbuck]

(04-12-2019, 06:56 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: OBJ
Antonio Brown 
Deandre Hopkins
Michael Thomas
Tyreek Hill
Adam Thielen
Davante Adams
TY Hilton
Julio Jones
Stefan Diggs

That's 10 WRs that I would list at or near the top of the NFL right now, and AJ would be at or near the bottom of that list.  We are blinded by the fact that he is our best WR but he is not a top 5 WR in the NFL any more.  He is likely a fringe top 10, as I said.  

I think this is a fair list. I could probably pick knits with Hilton, Thielen and Diggs, but I'd put AJ in that range and maybe add Keenan Allen & Mike Evans. I also think JuJu will be on the list this time next year. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-12-2019, 09:11 AM)Schmitbuck Wrote: I think this is a fair list. I could probably pick knits with Hilton, Thielen and Diggs, but I'd put AJ in that range and maybe add Keenan Allen & Mike Evans. I also think JuJu will be on the list this time next year. 

Agreed on all points.  I think with a better QB, Mike Evans is unstoppable.  Thielen and Diggs are massively underrated.  Thielen simply gets open and catches the ball.  Crazy production.  I hate JuJu for the assbaggery with Burfict and getting away with re-enacting that shit in an end zone celebration (Jesus, had the Bengals done something like that, the NFL would have imploded and the players involved would have been suspended for life) but Juju is a very productive receiver.  It will be interesting to see how he does without Brown opposite him and Bell as the checkdown.  

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-12-2019, 06:56 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: OBJ
Antonio Brown 
Deandre Hopkins
Michael Thomas
Tyreek Hill
Adam Thielen
Davante Adams
TY Hilton
Julio Jones
Stefan Diggs

That's 10 WRs that I would list at or near the top of the NFL right now, and AJ would be at or near the bottom of that list.  We are blinded by the fact that he is our best WR but he is not a top 5 WR in the NFL any more.  He is likely a fringe top 10, as I said.  

AJ is better than a couple of those guys for sure. Diggs is a #2. Adams has put up 1k+ yds exactly once in 5 seasons and he plays with Aaron Rodgers (in fact I’d say at least half those guys have better QB’s).

Last season before his injury AJ was on pace for 1400 yds and 12 TD. He’s absolutely still top 10.

[fredtoast]

Green is still one of the top WRs in the game. Definitely top ten.

However he is NOT going to get $20 million a year on his next contract. He is not considered the top WR in the league, and even the best WRs don't get paid that much in their 30's. Julio and OBJ got their monster contracts when they were 25-26. Brown has put up much larger numbers than Green and he just got $16 mill a year at age 30.

[XsandOs]

(04-12-2019, 06:38 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: This is a ridiculous statement.  Of course he can be replaced.  He is a fringe top 10 WR as it is...he is just the best we have had since Chad Johnson.  

Given your opinion above, then your thread makes sense to you.

I disagree.

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-12-2019, 11:47 AM)XsandOs Wrote: Given your opinion above, then your thread makes sense to you.

I disagree.

No problem there....and you managed to disagree without being a feminine hygiene product.  Props to you...a few on here could learn a thing or two from you. 

[Tiger Teeth]

I normally agree with you Racer, but not this time. AJ is a top 10 WR for certain.