If Haskins is there at 11...

[Catmandude123]

(04-12-2019, 10:31 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Not to mention a QB who has displayed issues throwing on the move and handling pressure well. It's either going to result in a 1st round player who sits for 1-2 years or a starting QB who doesn't have a good enough pass protecting OL to allow him to do what he does best - pick apart from inside the pocket. Build the OL THEN get your QB of the future. Let Dalton be that bridge until that time.

Getting your QB when you need him is a great idea but when one falls into your lap you would be ill advised to ignore the future possibilities he may bring. Let Dalton start this year while training his replacement. If Dalton is above average again like 2015 you keep him another year. If he is again mediocre you already have a replacement with one year of NFL experience and not having to mortgage the farm to get a top rookie. Its a win  win situation IMO.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-16-2019, 08:31 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Getting your QB when you need him is a great idea but when one falls into your lap you would be ill advised to ignore the future possibilities he may bring. Let Dalton start this year while training his replacement. If Dalton is above average again like 2015 you keep him another year. If he is again mediocre you already have a replacement with one year of NFL experience and not having to mortgage the farm to get a top rookie. Its a win  win situation IMO.

Agreed...if you think Haskins is that QB. 
But look at it this way.
You take a year, possibly two, maybe even three to groom Haskins and/or build a good enough OL for him. Now you have fewer years of his rookie deal to actually take advantage and REALLY build up an elite team while your star QB is on such a cheap contract. The Seahawks were able to do this with Wilson and it got them two Super Bowl appearances and one victory. PHI, LAR, DAL, HOU, and KC are all benefiting from rookie QB deals right now too.

If you build the team around the QB first, it allows you a bigger window to take advantage of a good QB on a rookie contract. If the Bengals want to build a good team through the draft, they need more early-round picks. Trading back allows them to better accomplish that. They can always trade back now and get some 2020 or 2021 1st rounders to really improve their ability to trade up to get that top rookie.

When it comes to the draft, I don't think this team/organization looks (much) beyond the current draft class on how they want to build the team. Maybe if they start doing that, it will allow them to really become true contenders within a few years rather than middling around between 6-10 and 10-6 with no postseason success.

[yang]

(04-12-2019, 12:53 PM)ochocincos Wrote: NYG supposedly would still be interested at 17 but not at 6. They might be willing to trade up to 11 if he falls that far.
The following trade turns out to be the exact same value according to trade value chart:

CIN trades 11 (1250 pts) and 72 (230 pts) to NYG
NYG trades 17 (950 pts) and 37 (530 pts) to CIN

This would have Cincinnati picking 17th in 1st round and 37th and 42nd in 2nd round.
They would lose their 3rd rounder, however.

But personally, I see a lot of good picks being available in early-mid Rd 2 and I don't like a lot of Rd 3 prospects. So I'd be all in favor of such a trade.

I would be all over that deal.  We could likely still get Devin Bush and better value in the 2nd than the 3rd.  Lots of good talent available there like Risner for the Oline, WR prospects, Edge Rushers and TE's. 

[SunsetBengal]

(04-15-2019, 08:27 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: He beat Michigan....That's #1 for most of them 

If you didn't win your rivalry game, what did you win?

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-16-2019, 11:25 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: If you didn't win your rivalry game, what did you win?

Yeah, ask Marv about his record against that team from the East....

[SunsetBengal]

(04-16-2019, 01:30 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Yeah, ask Marv about his record against that team from the East....

Maybe one day as Bengal fans, we'll look back at the Marvin years the same way Buckeye fans look back at the John Cooper years?

[*bengalfan74*]

(04-16-2019, 01:36 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Maybe one day as Bengal fans, we'll look back at the Marvin years the same way Buckeye fans look back at the John Cooper years?

Perhaps ZT will be our UM ?

Cooper had at least two National title level teams that were never to be, it's a shame really.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-16-2019, 01:44 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Perhaps ZT will be our UM ?

Cooper had at least two National title level teams that were never to be, it's a shame really.

what a coincidence, Marvin Lewis had at least two Bengal teams that should have went deep into the playoffs..

[fozzie11]

I think if he’s there and he is the QB that Taylor wants then go for it. I do believe that LB is a more pressing need but I’m not a coach/ scout so who knows

[MentalRage]

If Taylor thinks Haskins is franchise guy then he should take him. It's not uncommon for new coaches to want their own 'guy'.

[fredtoast]

(04-16-2019, 01:30 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Yeah, ask Marv about his record against that team from the East....

The domination at the hands of the Steelers was mind boggling.  

From '03-'18 only five teams had a winning percentage above .390 against teams that finished with a winning record, and the Bengals won .390 of their games against winning teams other than the Steelers.  Unfortunately a quarter of our games against winning teams (24 of 124) were against the Steelers and we only won 4 of those 24.  Even with the Steeler numbers included we were still 6th in wins (42) and 13th in winning percentage against winning teams.

Overall we had a .556 winning percentage against the rest of the league but only .250 against the Steelers.  

And I don't even want to talk about our two playoff games against them.

The Marvin Lewis era would have been much different if we could have just played respectable against the Steelers like we did against other winning teams.  But they just completely owned us.

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-16-2019, 01:44 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Perhaps ZT will be our UM ?

Cooper had at least two National title level teams that were never to be, it's a shame really.

Like the thought process here...

Cincinnati is DUE.  New Reds coach, new Bearcat BBall coach (and new football coach LY), new Bengals coach...something has to give here.  Love them all, but want a Bengals Super Bowl more than anything

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-16-2019, 04:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The domination at the hands of the Steelers was mind boggling.  

From '03-'18 only five teams had a winning percentage above .390 against teams that finished with a winning record, and the Bengals won .390 of their games against winning teams not named the Steelers.  Unfortunately a quarter of our games against winning teams (24 of 124) were against the Steelers and we only won 4 of those 24.  Even with the Steeler numbers included we were still 6th in wins (42) and 13th in winning percentage against winning teams.

Overall we had a .556 winning percentage against the rest of the league but only .250 against the Steelers.  

And I don't even want to talk about our two playoff games against them.

The Marvin Lewis era would have been much different if we could have just played respectable against the Steelers like we did against other winning teams.  But they just completely owned us.

Sad, but true.  I think about that playoff game if I need to vomit for some reason.  

[fortyyearfan]

(04-15-2019, 03:51 PM)Schmitbuck Wrote: I loved reading today that Green Bay at 12 is bringing in two of the top QBs for visits. Lets make that #11 pick more valuable. Come on up Miami, Washington, and NYG!

Trust me on this,Haskins is going to struggle in the nfl and he is not a vocal leader and is a me me guy.Yes he has potential and I hate that word and the AFC NORTH would eat him up and please believe this.I do not want him,get a qb later in the draft or wait on rosen and take him from the cards.he is going to be good wherever he goes.and he will have a huge chip going with him.The guy is getting screwed in arizonia and Kyle Murray is going to get killed by some linebacker or safety that can't wait to drill his butt when is starts running everywhere.Running qbs do not last long in the nfl.Keep that up and you go on Ir

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-16-2019, 08:49 PM)fortyyearfan Wrote: Trust me on this,Haskins is going to struggle in the nfl and he is not a vocal leader and is a me me guy.Yes he has potential and I hate that word and the AFC NORTH would eat him up and please believe this.I do not want him,get a qb later in the draft or wait on rosen and take him from the cards.he is going to be good wherever he goes.and he will have a huge chip going with him.The guy is getting screwed in arizonia and Kyle Murray is going to get killed by some linebacker or safety that can't wait to drill his butt when is starts running everywhere.Running qbs do not last long in the nfl.Keep that up and you go on Ir

Like Russell Wilson, who has not missed a start?  

[Hoofhearted]

Trying to find a franchise QB should be priority 1, 2 and 3. There's no lineman or linebacker that will have the impact that a good QB will have. Even if he has to sit, who really cares? You got a franchise QB. Or you didn't...but then you should try again. I’d rather try and fail than not try at all. Worst thing that happens is we try again and fail. Then you keep doing that until you do find it. I don't care if that's Haskins, Lock, Grier or Murray. If they view one of them as a franchsie QB, you take him at 11 and not look back.

[Catmandude123]

(04-17-2019, 09:41 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Trying to find a franchise QB should be priority 1, 2 and 3. 

The discussion on  this blog about the selection of a QB ignores the fact that whatever is there at pick 11 will be scrutinized by the FO including ZT to see if he is what Zac needs to succeed. If they pass on a top QB the only way they have a chance to get one this high next year is to play more poorly in 2019. EVERY TIME YOU TAKE A QB YOU MISS OUT ON A POSITION PLAYER. It doesn't matter what year it is. The NFL has gotten more and more pass friendly the last few years so having an above average QB is critical to success.

[McC]

(04-17-2019, 09:41 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Trying to find a franchise QB should be priority 1, 2 and 3. There's no lineman or linebacker that will have the impact that a good QB will have. Even if he has to sit, who really cares? You got a franchise QB. Or you didn't...but then you should try again. I’d rather try and fail than not try at all. Worst thing that happens is we try again and fail. Then you keep doing that until you do find it. I don't care if that's Haskins, Lock, Grier or Murray. If they view one of them as a franchsie QB, you take him at 11 and not look back.

So, just keep taking QB's until you get the right one?  Throw in firing HC's every year and you have the Cleveland model for sukking for a decade or two.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-17-2019, 09:59 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: The discussion on  this blog about the selection of a QB ignores the fact that whatever is there at pick 11 will be scrutinized by the FO including ZT to see if he is what Zac needs to succeed. If they pass on a top QB the only way they have a chance to get one this high next year is to play more poorly in 2019. EVERY TIME YOU TAKE A QB YOU MISS OUT ON A POSITION PLAYER. It doesn't matter what year it is. The NFL has gotten more and more pass friendly the last few years so having an above average QB is critical to success.

This is actually a false statement. KC, HOU, PHI, LAR all traded UP to get their current 1st round QBs.
I know it goes against the Bengals' model, but they need to get it out of their head that trading up is not an option.
If you are not near-certain that a QB can be a true franchise QB when you pick at 11, don't take one just to take one because you worry you may not be high enough next year or the year after to take one.

If the team builds a really good team around Dalton this year, they could (keyword = could) trade up next year to get their franchise QB to take them to the promised land if Dalton shows he cannot.

But I do agree that if the team sees Haskins (or any other QB from this class) as their star franchise QB and they happen to be there at 11, you take that player. I just don't have ultra-high confidence that any QB from this class is a Top 10 QB type of guy, and therefore I wouldn't bother with a 1st round QB this year.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-17-2019, 10:35 AM)McC Wrote: So, just keep taking QB's until you get the right one?  Throw in firing HC's every year and you have the Cleveland model for sukking for a decade or two.

^This

It takes a team to win games, a QB cannot do it by himself, no matter how great he is.