Jawann Taylor or Jonah Williams to Bengals in Round 1

[*psychdoctor*]

(04-15-2019, 03:51 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I think any of the following can be a good replacement for Hart:
Williams
Taylor
Ford
Risner
McGary

From at least a pass protection standpoint, I'd include Dillard too.

The only issue i have found Ocho against Williams is his lower body strength needs development.  I think he has the frame to fill out more and may be very good.  I also think he did well against superior teams so there is that.  I would not be disappointed in selecting him at 11 but would prefer Taylor, Dillard, even Risner.  

[*Synric*]

(04-15-2019, 03:51 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I think any of the following can be a good replacement for Hart:
Williams
Taylor
Ford
Risner
McGary

From at least a pass protection standpoint, I'd include Dillard too.

Dalton Risner could end up being the best of the bunch. If the Bengals were to some how trade back in the first round he would be the number one guy on my board.

[bonesaw]

I subscribe to taking the OT. You gotta be able to find some linebackers in a different round. The talent pools of dudes who are 6'2" and 240lbs is a lot larger than talent pool of dudes who are 6'5" and 325lbs. Mathematics tells me you better get your OT early.

[Au165]

(04-15-2019, 09:37 PM)bonesaw Wrote: I subscribe to taking the OT. You gotta be able to find some linebackers in a different round. The talent pools of dudes who are 6'2" and 240lbs is a lot larger than talent pool of dudes who are 6'5" and 325lbs. Mathematics tells me you better get your OT early.

Most draft big boards disagree, including my own. 5-6 OT rated in most top 100 only 2-3 linebackers. The fallacy is assuming size translates to skill which we have seen time and time again physical traits don’t necessarily mean much in terms of in field success.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-15-2019, 10:17 PM)Au165 Wrote: Most draft big boards disagree, including my own. 5-6 OT rated in most top 100 only 2-3 linebackers. The fallacy is assuming size translates to skill which we have seen time and time again physical traits don’t necessarily mean much in terms of in field success.

Don't let your big board lie to you.  Take a look at how many busts the College game has produced in the past 10 years, at OT.  Then wonder why Trent Brown and Ju'wan James got astronomical contracts..

[CJD]

I think we've needed to draft an actually talented LB every year for the last 10 years, but we've talked ourselves out of it with a similar mindset as this every time haha.

Linebackers are a really weird position because they aren't in the trenches, they don't typically rush the passer (in the 4-3) and they don't create a ton of turnovers/shut down top receiving targets.

Their primary stat is something that doesn't really jump off the page as an impact play: tackles.
So they just aren't "sexy" picks, especially in the first round.

It's why it's so easy to ignore the position. But it's definitely our #1 need.

When it comes to draft pick safety (vs riskiness), LBs rate among the highest in the first round. Meaning: If you draft a LB in the first round, they have the highest chance of being an all pro and the 3rd highest chance of being a pro bowler compared to other positions being drafted in the first round.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2441018-which-positions-are-the-safest-riskiest-at-the-top-of-the-nfl-draft

[Au165]

(04-15-2019, 11:02 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Don't let your big board lie to you.  Take a look at how many busts the College game has produced in the past 10 years, at OT.  Then wonder why Trent Brown and Ju'wan James got astronomical contracts..

Mosley is making more than Dalton this year. Kwon Alexander is making 14 Million a year coming off an ACL tear. Free agent contracts are simply inflating at a rate that makes no sense. This class is much stronger at Tackle than LB and it isn't close. Will they all pan out? No. That is often times as much to do with situation and desire as talent though, the talent at Tackle in this class is solid. As I have said, no big headliners but a lot of solid guys who can be long term options.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-15-2019, 10:17 PM)Au165 Wrote: Most draft big boards disagree, including my own. 5-6 OT rated in most top 100 only 2-3 linebackers. The fallacy is assuming size translates to skill which we have seen time and time again physical traits don’t necessarily mean much in terms of in field success.

Yea, the problem with the LBs is there are a bunch of middle-of-the-pack options that are projected to be just solid starters in best case scenario.
If the Bengals decided to wait until the middle rounds to take LBs (yes, they need two), I could see them liking Pratt for WILL and Cam Smith or Tevon Coney for MIKE.

For OT, I would guess it's Williams (assuming he's counted in OT), Taylor, Dillard, Ford, Risner, Little, McGary, maybe Cajuste within the top 100?

[Au165]

(04-16-2019, 10:19 AM)ochocincos Wrote: For OT, I would guess it's Williams (assuming he's counted in OT), Taylor, Dillard, Ford, Risner, Little, McGary, maybe Cajuste within the top 100?

Yep, some combination of 5-6 of those guys make up most top 100 lists. There is a lot of talk of McGary jumping up boards late, possibly into the back of the 1st. 

[fortyyearfan]

(04-15-2019, 11:08 AM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yes, i believe as well that RT is now our biggest weakness simply cause of the coaching change moving on from Haslett. With Tem now here we might be substantially better at LB and i honestly don't think there is as big of a fall off at LB after the Devins as i thought initially. I like Mack Wilson and Germaine Pratt in the 2nd or 3rd just as much as Devin Bush to tell you the truth.

Also really like David Long Jr who should be around later.

JaWaan Taylor or Jonah Williams at 11 would probably be the best pick, maybe even better than Devin White IMO.

remember our new coach is an offensive guy,he is going after offense first.There is a ton of top defensive guys in this draft,not so on offense,gotta get your top offensive guy early.I am hoping for taylor or dillard,but whoever they get its going to be great baby.

[lone bengal]

If Taylor is gone when we pick and we go OT at 11 I feel like Dillard and Williams are natural left tackles and don’t have the size or power to play RT. Ford has the body type to play RT but 11 is probably to high for him to be picked. Wonder if there’s a possibility that we draft Williams or Dillard to play LT and move Glenn to RT. Glenn has definitely had the size to play RT and he might benefit from the move.

[lone bengal]

(04-15-2019, 11:08 AM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yes, i believe as well that RT is now our biggest weakness simply cause of the coaching change moving on from Haslett. With Tem now here we might be substantially better at LB and i honestly don't think there is as big of a fall off at LB after the Devins as i thought initially. I like Mack Wilson and Germaine Pratt in the 2nd or 3rd just as much as Devin Bush to tell you the truth.

Also really like David Long Jr who should be around later.

JaWaan Taylor or Jonah Williams at 11 would probably be the best pick, maybe even better than Devin White IMO.

The more I watch Germaine Pratt the more I like him. If we don’t go LB in round 1 maybe we go Pratt in round 2.

[fortyyearfan]

(04-15-2019, 03:47 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: My favorite right tackle prospect is Taylor and my favorite left tackle potential is Dillard

Now you are taking psychdoctor,my exact thoughts,and if we could somehow draft both,our line would be super for years.I want at least one of these men, and go after a linebacker in second or third and round 4 get a backup qb.I also like the irv smith dude tightend,he is super good.Six more long long days. I thought about going down to cincy to the draft party,but my wife said she is wearing a two piece that day if I stay home with her,and she also said she was buying Crown Royal for the evening,I might not even have a chance to watch the draft.DVR's are a life saver. :andy:

[J24]

I think there is a good chance that the Bengals draft OT in the first and second Rd just like in 15.

[3wt]

(04-16-2019, 07:34 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I think we've needed to draft an actually talented LB every year for the last 10 years, but we've talked ourselves out of it with a similar mindset as this every time haha.

Linebackers are a really weird position because they aren't in the trenches, they don't typically rush the passer (in the 4-3) and they don't create a ton of turnovers/shut down top receiving targets.

Their primary stat is something that doesn't really jump off the page as an impact play: tackles.
So they just aren't "sexy" picks, especially in the first round.

It's why it's so easy to ignore the position. But it's definitely our #1 need.

When it comes to draft pick safety (vs riskiness), LBs rate among the highest in the first round. Meaning: If you draft a LB in the first round, they have the highest chance of being an all pro and the 3rd highest chance of being a pro bowler compared to other positions being drafted in the first round.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2441018-which-positions-are-the-safest-riskiest-at-the-top-of-the-nfl-draft

As long as the team doesn't ignore production statistics.  For example Keith Rivers had really good measurable but poor production statistics.

Both White (especially) and Bush have really good production statistics to go along with great measurable (other than size)


And We have given up a large percentage of 3rd down conversions (every down conversions really) because we have had such a large hole at the 2nd level.

We could use an upgrade on the line as well, and I feel we could upgrade at corner as well.  But the biggest need by far is at linebacker.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-16-2019, 07:50 PM)fortyyearfan Wrote: remember our new coach is an offensive guy,he is going after offense first.There is a ton of top defensive guys in this draft,not so on offense,gotta get your top offensive guy early.I am hoping for taylor or dillard,but whoever they get its going to be great baby.

True that, i also think that our Defense is not that far off from being very good. We have very good players in both the Secondary and most importantly the D-line, just need to add a couple decent young Linebackers for Tem to coach up. With Lou Anarumo here instead of Teryl Austin coaching our guys and learning what Austin did wrong last year and what Marv did right we should be seeing our defensive players used to their strengths much more.

Taylor, Jonah, Dillard...

I am all on board man.

(04-18-2019, 04:50 PM)lone bengal Wrote: The more I watch Germaine Pratt the more I like him. If we don’t go LB in round 1 maybe we go Pratt in round 2.

JaWaan Taylor, Germaine Pratt to start out the draft sounds pretty frickin' sweet to me too Lone Bengal.

Agreed, the more you watch Pratt honestly he just keeps looking better and he is a decent tackler which is what we need more than just freak athletes. He is also smart and a leader from what i have seen. Loved watching him at SC.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-19-2019, 10:45 AM)3wt Wrote: As long as the team doesn't ignore production statistics.  For example Keith Rivers had really good measurable but poor production statistics.

Both White (especially) and Bush have really good production statistics to go along with great measurable (other than size)


And We have given up a large percentage of 3rd down conversions (every down conversions really) because we have had such a large hole at the 2nd level.

We could use an upgrade on the line as well, and I feel we could upgrade at corner as well.  But the biggest need by far is at linebacker.

All true, but the problem with these two Devins is both are questionable tacklers at times which is the most important part of being a great Linebacker. Neither are a sure thing and players like Mack Wilson and Germaine Pratt are good tacklers and can be had in the 2nd to 3rd rounds most likely. OT is still a big hole here and might be bigger than Linebacker now that we might have a good LB coach.

Turner needs a stud RT to succeed in my opinion and i don't find Preston, Vigil, Malik and Evans untalented. Hard to be a good player at your position when you are constantly put in the wrong position which happened consistently from the moment Haslett got here.

[TKUHL]

(04-15-2019, 09:45 AM)psychdoctor Wrote: Taylor yes. Williams, no. I am not sure that Ford or Williams are NFL OT. Maybe guards. IF Bengals want a great guard, then go for Lindstrom in round 2. If not Taylor in round 1, then maybe Dillard.

I would love Taylor in 1 then Risner/Bradberry/Lindstrom in 2. Or take the LB in 2 and grab OL Max in the 3rd. Both Bradberry or Risner can push Price to Guard or use Hopkins at C using Price at RG and one of the draft pick guards at LG.

[*psychdoctor*]

(04-19-2019, 06:57 PM)TKUHL Wrote: I would love Taylor in 1 then Risner/Bradberry/Lindstrom in 2. Or take the LB in 2 and grab OL Max in the 3rd. Both Bradberry or Risner can push Price to Guard or use Hopkins at C using Price at RG and one of the draft pick guards at LG.

Another guy to keep an eye on is the Center Jenkins.  But I think Lindstrom is my favorite O-Line prospect outside of Taylor.  

[SunsetBengal]

(04-19-2019, 07:23 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Another guy to keep an eye on is the Center Jenkins.  But I think Lindstrom is my favorite O-Line prospect outside of Taylor.  

I agree.  It would seem OL greedy, but I'd like to see them both landed.  Let those two grow, along with Billy Price, and we could have a great line for several years.