PFT - AJ Green enjoying life with an offensive-minded head coach

[*jason*]

(05-02-2019, 01:38 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: That is interesting, to say Marv didn't want our Offense to show up the Defense is strange.

You would think he would want this to happen so they could learn from it.

I didn't see Hard Knocks back in 2013. I've been watching it on YouTube lately. Anyway. I was amazed at how the defense was teeing off on Gio in practice when he was a rookie. Iloka truly blasted him with a hit that would be flagged in a game. Gresham also tried to show up Geno in the Oklahoma drill when his jumped offsides then drove him to the ground... Not sure what AJ's talking about, but he'd know better than me.

[BFritz21]

(05-02-2019, 03:17 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: The team sure looked stale under Marv that is for sure. Lot of excitement is what i am seeing and hearing now. Always thought Marv stuck his nose in the Offense far too much, this lends credence to that. I always said he should stick to what he knows best, too bad he didn't know that Austin didn't know what the hell he was doing.

Marv didn't know what he didn't know what he didn't know...

I agree that he stuck his nose too much in the offense, which is obvious with seasons like '09, when Marvin wanted to be more run-based to control the games, so he just had Bratkowski run the ball way too much and it became predictable.  Part of that obviously also falls on Bratkowski for not being intelligent enough to switch it up or a strong enough personality to stand up to Marvin and say "we need to change this."  All of that really boils down to Marvin's lack of vision and originality.

Let's also not forget the age difference between ML and ZT because the age and era or football plays a big difference.  Marvin comes from a time when football was a lot simpler and more defensive-oriented.  His entire generation was more conservative.  Taylor's only 363 days younger than I am, so his view and philosophy on how the game should be played is obviously very different and he'll want to be aggressive, energetic, and creative.

It's an exciting year to be a Bengals fan!  Everyone is writing us off and crowning the Browns as champs and putting us at the bottom below the Steelers and Ravens, but we're going to make some noise!

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-02-2019, 04:14 PM)jason Wrote: I didn't see Hard Knocks back in 2013. I've been watching it on YouTube lately. Anyway. I was amazed at how the defense was teeing off on Gio in practice when he was a rookie. Iloka truly blasted him with a hit that would be flagged in a game. Gresham also tried to show up Geno in the Oklahoma drill when his jumped offsides then drove him to the ground... Not sure what AJ's talking about, but he'd know better than me.

Yeah, i remember all that stuff cause i was able to watch Hard Knocks back then, it was really entertaining and we actually had a decent year that year. Seemed like at that time Dalton and Green gave the Offense a renewed energy and Zimmer did the same for the Defense. Of course once we got to the Playoffs once again we folded under Marv though.

Sounds like we have that much energy now again under Taylor is what i am taking from what AJ.

Sometimes you need an offensive minded HC and we have one. Let Lou take care of the D.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-02-2019, 04:22 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I agree that he stuck his nose too much in the offense, which is obvious with seasons like '09, when Marvin wanted to be more run-based to control the games, so he just had Bratkowski run the ball way too much and it became predictable.  Part of that obviously also falls on Bratkowski for not being intelligent enough to switch it up or a strong enough personality to stand up to Marvin and say "we need to change this."  All of that really boils down to Marvin's lack of vision and originality.

Let's also not forget the age difference between ML and ZT because the age and era or football plays a big difference.  Marvin comes from a time when football was a lot simpler and more defensive-oriented.  His entire generation was more conservative.  Taylor's only 363 days younger than I am, so his view and philosophy on how the game should be played is obviously very different and he'll want to be aggressive, energetic, and creative.

It's an exciting year to be a Bengals fan!  Everyone is writing us off and crowning the Browns as champs and putting us at the bottom below the Steelers and Ravens, but we're going to make some noise!

Yes, i have never found it to be a coincidence that most all of Marv's OC's did a lot of the same things. Hue was the most ingenuitive but even then there were some similarities that went on in the 2nd halves of games. Great point about the age difference too Brad, i am a year older than Zac myself.

The thing is the game has changed to more of an aggressive, offensive, point scoring game. Of course you have to have a good Defense as well but you HAVE to score points and play aggressive to beat the Patriots and the other top teams on BOTH sides of the ball. I think Zac Taylor will play aggressive, it might backfire at times but i am okay with that.

[fredtoast]

(05-02-2019, 02:36 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Marvin was delusional and not meant to be a head coach. End of story.

Despite being handicapped by the worst owner in the league Marvin had a winning record against other NFL head coaches.

[fredtoast]

Defense is not allowed to hit the QB in practice. That means the offense has a HUGE advantage in practice. I can see how the defensive players would pissed if the offense in any way gloated or celebrated success when the defense was playing under a handicap.

[impactplaya]

Marvin was not a bad coach by any means.
just as some point he failed to evolve as a coach.
I think at times the talent on Bengals playoff teams
was able to overshadow Lewis shortcomings as a HC.
but when it came to the playoffs Marvin simply could
not get his teams to overcome self doubt.
some NFL players play better when the lights are the brightest.
under Lewis the Dalton Green led teams wilted in the primetime lights.
of course Lewis would put the handcuffs
on the offense.
hes a defensive coach.it would bruise his ego a bit

[BFritz21]

(05-02-2019, 05:09 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yes, i have never found it to be a coincidence that most all of Marv's OC's did a lot of the same things. Hue was the most ingenuitive but even then there were some similarities that went on in the 2nd halves of games. Great point about the age difference too Brad, i am a year older than Zac myself.

The thing is the game has changed to more of an aggressive, offensive, point scoring game. Of course you have to have a good Defense as well but you HAVE to score points and play aggressive to beat the Patriots and the other top teams on BOTH sides of the ball. I think Zac Taylor will play aggressive, it might backfire at times but i am okay with that.

The thing about that though that I love about a new mind and hated about Marvin is that Taylor will play aggressive, but sometimes slow it up, and I don't mean slow it up like Marvin going run, run, curl, punt every series, but slow it up just in playing ball control but still trying to move the chains and score points.

Taylor is going to try and move the ball to score points and even playing ball control doesn't necessarily running it a lot or even short passes but just plays with a high rate of success in moving the ball.

I'm already getting excited!

[AlphaBengal]

(05-02-2019, 05:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Despite being handicapped by the worst owner in the league Marvin had a winning record against other NFL head coaches.

51% and 0-7 in the playoffs is nothing to be proud of, no matter how bad the owner is.

[fredtoast]

(05-02-2019, 08:31 PM)AlphaBengal Wrote: 51% and 0-7 in the playoffs is nothing to be proud of, no matter how bad the owner is.

But you agree it proves he was better than a majority of NFL coach's, right?  

Not only did he have a winning record, but he did it while handicapped by the worst owner in the league.

[AlphaBengal]

(05-02-2019, 09:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But you agree it proves he was better than a majority of NFL coach's, right?  

Not only did he have a winning record, but he did it while handicapped by the worst owner in the league.

Well if 50% is average then by definition you're right, he's better than the average 

[*bengalfan74*]

Doesn't surprise me AJ is excited about having a new offensive minded HC.

I'm excited myself and can't wait to see what they can do not having to hit the brakes all the time.

[fredtoast]

(05-02-2019, 09:27 PM)AlphaBengal Wrote: Well if 50% is average then by definition you're right, he's better than the average 

Exactly.

Now go back to the original post I was responding to and you will see why I said what I did.

[THE PISTONS]

(05-02-2019, 05:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Despite being handicapped by the worst owner in the league Marvin had a winning record against other NFL head coaches.

That's my point as well. People act like Marvin was a terrible coach and we hired a young, Sean McVey...

It's really hard to tell IF anyone can win under Mike Brown. But, it's equally hard to tell what we have in any of these coaches as they have little track record in the positions they are in.

Taylor has even very little playcalling experience let alone HC experience.

And our team is being ran by 2 guys who were QB Coaches last year and a DB Coach.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(05-02-2019, 01:38 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: That is interesting, to say Marv didn't want our Offense to show up the Defense is strange.

You would think he would want this to happen so they could learn from it.

He would not want it to look like the OC was better than his 'brilliant" defensive mind.

[Shake n Blake]

(05-02-2019, 09:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But you agree it proves he was better than a majority of NFL coach's, right?  

Not only did he have a winning record, but he did it while handicapped by the worst owner in the league.

Sure, he's better than the majority of coaches who are hired and fired through the years, but he's one of the worst to ever coach 16+ seasons in the NFL. 

Among that exclusive group of 26, Lewis ranks 24th in win % and he's the only one with 0 playoff wins. 17 of those coaches won Super Bowls. 

The only coaches with a worse win % are Lou Saban, who won 2 championships, and Jeff Fisher, who made a Super Bowl.

Lewis is officially the worst coach to ever coach that many seasons in the NFL.

[Circleville Guy]

(05-02-2019, 03:23 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: It is quite funny to me how we cannot give our new HC love for the moves he makes and the way the team is responding to him after our last HC went to the Playoffs that many times and we never won, not once under under Marvin Lewis, 0-7.

Marvin may not of been the absolute worst coach ever in football in the regular season, actually he was pretty good in the regular season. But he was the absolute worst coach ever in the Playoffs.

For me, it kinda like last year. Everyone was saying how every little move or word that the new Oline coach made was praised endlessly and then when it came time for results, it wasn’t backed up. I don’t like to praise too much until something translates on the field. I am curious though if anyone noticed Marvin going extra easy on the D in game or during HardKnocks??? Was this just AJ’s perception or really how Marvin coached? Maybe that answer was in the final results.

[Joelist]

Actually I think what happened is our new offensive coaches and our new HC got hands on time with the players and decided that the skill positions were not the problem on the offense - the scheme and the blocking were.

[XsandOs]

(05-02-2019, 01:38 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: That is interesting, to say Marv didn't want our Offense to show up the Defense is strange.

You would think he would want this to happen so they could learn from it.

(05-02-2019, 01:47 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Great to see AJ so excited about Taylor and his approach.

Also, one thing I've noticed...whether it's been comments by coaches or players, is the focus / emphasis the new staff seems to be putting on the 'teaching' aspect. 

Truthfully, it's not unusual that a coach's background influences which squad he favors.

Lewis was a Defensive guy, so he favored the defense, and the defensive guys supported him.

Similarly, Taylor is an offensive guy- specifically a WR positional coach in NFL. Hence, Green's admiration of his style.

Ultimately, this signals that Taylor needs a strong defensive guy who keeps that side of the ball confident and motivated.

One of Taylor's big responsibility is to revitalize John Ross. I hope that materializes.

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-02-2019, 01:38 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: That is interesting, to say Marv didn't want our Offense to show up the Defense is strange.

You would think he would want this to happen so they could learn from it.

And maybe they don't look completely lost like in the Chiefs game?  So far (and I know it is VERY early), I am thrilled with what I hear about the coaching.

I have been a coach for nearly 30 years, and I can say with a high degree of certainty that the athlete's will almost always perform better when they understand the reasoning behind a drill, a design, etc.  For the rarely candid Green to make such as statement speaks volumes.