Why I still have hope for Jordan Willis

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-08-2019, 08:15 PM)XsandOs Wrote: We will see guys blossom this year who have underperformed in previous years. It's the new coaching staff.

It's not that Lewis wasn't a good coach.

It has to do with confidence. Young guys who come in from college and don't produce immediately, can lose confidence and at time never regain it.

Coaches are human. They see a kid struggling and it sticks in their mind. So it's a two way street.

With a couple of pro years under his belt and a clean slate, this kid can show his talent.

Remember that only a few players will come in with built in credit (Green, Atkins, Dunlap, Dalton, Mixon, etc). Everyone else will be treated similarly and evaluated based on how they learn and translate it to the field.

These are exciting times for guys who feel they didn't get a fair shake with previous coaches. Some of them will blossom and some will be shown the door.

I think Jordan and Jefferson will get a thorough and fair look by the new coaches.

I hope they succeed!

Great post as usual X's and O's. With new coaches all kinds of new things can happen.

I said i have been disappointed in Willis so far but who knows how he will respond under this new staff?

He has talent, fast and strong.

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-08-2019, 04:23 PM)impactplaya Wrote: I will give you a,polite comparison.
Myles Garrett came out and said last week Gregg Williams 
limited hin to 2 moves...speed rush and bull rush.
yet somehow Garrett ended up with 13 sacks with 2 MOVES.
Willis cant even reach 5 on his limited arsonel.
I see Willis come off the ball and hands are in his numbers.
hes stood up negated. 
he has has no explosion coming off the ball. 
he lacks aggression too. 
he simply doesnt play angry.
hes a oversized cupcake.

There is so much wrong here, but I will start with the stats...Why don't you break down the hurries, QB hits, sacks, TFL, pressures, etc for each guy and divide it by their snaps?  I don't think Willis got anywhere near the opportunity that was afforded Garrett.  And no, I don't think he is as good as Garrett, but everything you said from lack of explosion to being an oversized cupcake is way off base.  

[OSUfan]

Jordan Willis is a good young player and not sure why we would have a thread regarding "hope" for him. He may not be an elite pass rushing talent but he is a good solid all around DE that is really good against the run. He may not be a guy you insert on third down as a rush specialist but on first and second down and obvious running downs he is completely solid.

[impactplaya]

(05-09-2019, 06:21 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: There is so much wrong here, but I will start with the stats...Why don't you break down the hurries, QB hits, sacks, TFL, pressures, etc for each guy and divide it by their snaps?  I don't think Willis got anywhere near the opportunity that was afforded Garrett.  And no, I don't think he is as good as Garrett, but everything you said from lack of explosion to being an oversized cupcake is way off base.  

ok let me explain.
this is  a era dominated by passing.the league is evolved into that.
on defense its all about taking  the QB out of his comfort zone.
did you hear it mentioned on draft day when the DEs came off the board
"now this kid is absolute monster vs the run......."
no it starts with his pass rushing talents 
DEs are drafted with one thing in mind
CAN HE GET TO THE QB AND  BE DISRUPTIVE

Jordan Willis was drafted to be a pass rush terror.
hes shown me very little in that regard.
dont tell me about QB hurries or pressures cause cant even do that well.
where was Willis in the 4th qr vs Big Ben and Cincy couldnt get off the field trying to get to 5 and 1.
memo to.some of you.
wanna see this team turn it around....then we need these young guys to start making meaningful 
plays when the situation calls for it.
look around the North over last couple years....Garrett JuJu Watt Jackson Mayfield playing lights out
ball and their teams are passing us by.
some of you wanna give Willis a participation good effort trophy.
nah screw that I WANT RESULTS.
guys like Bates Hubbard Mixon and making plays.
yet we got these guys like Willis looking like Coy Bacon vs preseason future Arbys managers in the 4th q.
but when the big boys show up in the regular season hes invisable 
yeah I get it 
"oh he might be decent all around DE that play the run too."
spare me.
you guys are happy with mediocrity. 

[Passepartout]

Yeah as it is about making plays for Willis against the rush. As that is why he was indeed picked. To get results over on it.

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-09-2019, 09:44 PM)impactplaya Wrote: ok let me explain.
this is  a era dominated by passing.the league is evolved into that.
on defense its all about taking  the QB out of his comfort zone.
did you hear it mentioned on draft day when the DEs came off the board
"now this kid is absolute monster vs the run......."
no it starts with his pass rushing talents 
DEs are drafted with one thing in mind
CAN HE GET TO THE QB AND  BE DISRUPTIVE

Jordan Willis was drafted to be a pass rush terror.
hes shown me very little in that regard.
dont tell me about QB hurries or pressures cause cant even do that well.
where was Willis in the 4th qr vs Big Ben and Cincy couldnt get off the field trying to get to 5 and 1.
memo to.some of you.
wanna see this team turn it around....then we need these young guys to start making meaningful 
plays when the situation calls for it.
look around the North over last couple years....Garrett JuJu Watt Jackson Mayfield playing lights out
ball and their teams are passing us by.
some of you wanna give Willis a participation good effort trophy.
nah screw that I WANT RESULTS.
guys like Bates Hubbard Mixon and making plays.
yet we got these guys like Willis looking like Coy Bacon vs preseason future Arbys managers in the 4th q.
but when the big boys show up in the regular season hes invisable 
yeah I get it 
"oh he might be decent all around DE that play the run too."
spare me.
you guys are happy with mediocrity. 

More wrong...and your rant on accepting mediocrity is just pissing in to the wind.  You may be tired of losing and many of us are as well, but attacking fans that support players that had minimal opportunities like Willis is just plain dumb.

Willis wasn't drafted just to be a pass rush terror.  First of all, he played more LDE in college than RDE.  He was very assignment-sound in terms of defending the run in a large number of read-option offenses in the Big 12.  When he was given the green light to rush the passer, that is where you saw his strength and speed.  He is a very coachable player.  He was referred to at Kansas State as "the epitome of what they are doing with their program" by their coach.  He was never selfish about getting a stat, but he always played his assignments and was a team-first guy.

That seems a lot like what Taylor has been seeking in his first draft.  

Willis is far from done, and I think he would be better off (and Dunlap, too, with fewer snaps to stay fresher) if they left him in a platoon with Dunlap at LDE.  

And just one question for you:  Why Willis?  What about the the LB Jefferson?  WR Josh Malone?  LB Vigil?  DT Billings?  None of these guys seem to have been setting the world on fire and with the exception of Jefferson, all got more chances than Willis.  If memory serves, Willis had an injury right of the start at last season as well.  

He will get his shot this year, with no DEs drafted, and we will see what he can do...

[impactplaya]

(05-10-2019, 07:04 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: More wrong...and your rant on accepting mediocrity is just pissing in to the wind.  You may be tired of losing and many of us are as well, but attacking fans that support players that had minimal opportunities like Willis is just plain dumb.

Willis wasn't drafted just to be a pass rush terror.  First of all, he played more LDE in college than RDE.  He was very assignment-sound in terms of defending the run in a large number of read-option offenses in the Big 12.  When he was given the green light to rush the passer, that is where you saw his strength and speed.  He is a very coachable player.  He was referred to at Kansas State as "the epitome of what they are doing with their program" by their coach.  He was never selfish about getting a stat, but he always played his assignments and was a team-first guy.

That seems a lot like what Taylor has been seeking in his first draft.  

Willis is far from done, and I think he would be better off (and Dunlap, too, with fewer snaps to stay fresher) if they left him in a platoon with Dunlap at LDE.  

And just one question for you:  Why Willis?  What about the the LB Jefferson?  WR Josh Malone?  LB Vigil?  DT Billings?  None of these guys seem to have been setting the world on fire and with the exception of Jefferson, all got more chances than Willis.  If memory serves, Willis had an injury right of the start at last season as well.  

He will get his shot this year, with no DEs drafted, and we will see what he can do...

Jefferson was essentially a project when he was drafted.
I expexted very little contribution from him.

Malone Ive been critical of.I questioned his overall desire to be great. 

Vigil Ive been more than critical of. never was a fan of his play.
he amasss alot of tackles but not much else.
I find him looking at the backs of TEs too much. 

Billings showed some growth laat year. 

but when you look at the moat important positions on a team
Its QB LT DE CB.
Jordan Willis was drafted for his ability to get after the QB
and his "motor" 
hes a 4 cylinder when you need a 7.3 Powerstroke at tbat position 

[BenZoo2]

(05-10-2019, 09:20 AM)impactplaya Wrote: Jefferson was essentially a project when he was drafted.
I expexted very little contribution from him.

Malone Ive been critical of.I questioned his overall desire to be great. 

Vigil Ive been more than critical of. never was a fan of his play.
he amasss alot of tackles but not much else.
I find him looking at the backs of TEs too much. 

Billings showed some growth laat year. 

but when you look at the moat important positions on a team
Its QB LT DE CB.
Jordan Willis was drafted for his ability to get after the QB
and his "motor" 
hes a 4 cylinder when you need a 7.3 Powerstroke at tbat position 

Cue powerstroke vs Cummins jokes now


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-10-2019, 07:04 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: More wrong...and your rant on accepting mediocrity is just pissing in to the wind.  You may be tired of losing and many of us are as well, but attacking fans that support players that had minimal opportunities like Willis is just plain dumb.

Willis wasn't drafted just to be a pass rush terror.  First of all, he played more LDE in college than RDE.  He was very assignment-sound in terms of defending the run in a large number of read-option offenses in the Big 12.  When he was given the green light to rush the passer, that is where you saw his strength and speed.  He is a very coachable player.  He was referred to at Kansas State as "the epitome of what they are doing with their program" by their coach.  He was never selfish about getting a stat, but he always played his assignments and was a team-first guy.

That seems a lot like what Taylor has been seeking in his first draft.  

Willis is far from done, and I think he would be better off (and Dunlap, too, with fewer snaps to stay fresher) if they left him in a platoon with Dunlap at LDE.  

And just one question for you:  Why Willis?  What about the the LB Jefferson?  WR Josh Malone?  LB Vigil?  DT Billings?  None of these guys seem to have been setting the world on fire and with the exception of Jefferson, all got more chances than Willis.  If memory serves, Willis had an injury right of the start at last season as well.  

He will get his shot this year, with no DEs drafted, and we will see what he can do...

Yes, you know Willis very well SHRacer as do i, still i bet you have been a bit disappointed with him so far just like me...

Hope this is the year he explodes onto the scene and becomes that player we thought he would be, a do it all End that can stop the run and rush the passer when called upon. He has the size, strength, speed and overall athleticism to do this, not to mention his work ethic that is second to none.

I do think he needs to get a little more PO'ed out there and gain that killer instinct.

That QB is you enemy, get him and smash him. Without drawing a penatly of course.

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-10-2019, 02:02 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yes, you know Willis very well SHRacer as do i, still i bet you have been a bit disappointed with him so far just like me...

Hope this is the year he explodes onto the scene and becomes that player we thought he would be, a do it all End that can stop the run and rush the passer when called upon. He has the size, strength, speed and overall athleticism to do this, not to mention his work ethic that is second to none.

I do think he needs to get a little more PO'ed out there and gain that killer instinct.

That QB is you enemy, get him and smash him. Without drawing a penatly of course.

I am absolutely disappointed with his production thus far, Nate, but I am miles from calling him a 4 cyl, or some other lame insult.  

I think his being moved around didn't help him after Lawson was injured, and I wish they would just leave him at LDE and rotate with Dunlap.  Now that MJ is gone, maybe he will be more of a traditional RDE and Hubbard will rotate at LDE.  I'm not sure, but if he comes off the field on passing downs for Lawson, that will limit his chances for sacks. 

The idea of letting Dunlap play something ridiculous like 97% of the snaps makes no sense to me.  He will be more effective during games and down the stretch if he is able to be kept a bit more fresh.  

Although Dunlap and Geno have had solid sack production in the past, I have to wonder a bit about the defensive line coaching.  I can't stand watching MJ take a HUGE arc around to the QB, only to have the LT just ride him wide and create a huge rushing lane for the QB (or throwing lane).  It was so consistently bad...I kept thinking:  "He's setting up a swim move inside...it's third and eight...here it comes...." only to be disappointed to watch him basically take himself out of the play again.  Groan.  Lawson had a strong impact early....I'm hoping he will be back 100%.

Another thing to consider is the division we play in:  The AFC North.  The opposing QBs go:  Piggy, Baker, and Jackson.  Two of those three are very mobile and can scramble for a first down.  You will need those DEs to be very assignment sound or give up easy yardage to them.  I am also hoping for a more aggressive defensive scheme where they blitz more frequently (and creatively...like with a safety).  

This will be Willis's make or break year for his next contract.  I hope he finds his spot and is able to have a huge impact on this team.  

[fredtoast]

(05-10-2019, 07:04 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: More wrong...and your rant on accepting mediocrity is just pissing in to the wind.  You may be tired of losing and many of us are as well, but attacking fans that support players that had minimal opportunities like Willis is just plain dumb.

He is an internet "playa".  That's what they do.  They have to put everybody and everything down to make themselves feel bigger.  So let the playa play.  He needs it for his self esteem.

I see potential in Willis.  Margus Hunt improved when he left here.  Maybe it was better coaching.

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-11-2019, 10:34 AM)fredtoast Wrote: He is an internet "playa".  That's what they do.  They have to put everybody and everything down to make themselves feel bigger.  So let the playa play.  He needs it for his self esteem.

I see potential in Willis.  Margus Hunt improved when he left here.  Maybe it was better coaching.

Margus is a good example, and like Margus, Willis should be given a position and have him stay there and try and improve.  I think Hubbard is better served as the rotational DT next to Geno on passing downs, as he has done that more and has had some success with it.

Put Willis at LDE and let him rotate with Dunlap.  See what he can do and maybe he will ultimately be the replacement at LDE....at least you will know moving forward. 

[impactplaya]

(05-11-2019, 10:34 AM)fredtoast Wrote: He is an internet "playa".  That's what they do.  They have to put everybody and everything down to make themselves feel bigger.  So let the playa play.  He needs it for his self esteem.

I see potential in Willis.  Margus Hunt improved when he left here.  Maybe it was better coaching.

I see you have the astute ability to paint a picture of ones character without meeting them in person
my self  esteem is perfectly fine and a cornerstone of me overcoming challenges in life.
this is a football message board. we give our opinions.
nothing more or less.
I dont need to get anyones approval on how I present my views
on here.
If I choose to deacribe a player as a 4 cylinder. so be it.
I call it how I see it. 
So far Willis has a draft swing and miss.
He lacks intensity when hes on tbe field.
he plays without anger. 
hes done nothing in 2 years to make me think thats will be 
nothing more than a pure depth guy.
could he explode this year..
yeah maybe. then I will be wrong which doesnt bother me at all.
my world wont come crashing down if Jordan Willis somehow 
by a miracle of the fball gods looks like Eddie Edwards.
you say potential.
lets see...
Cordera Eason had potential.
so did Reggie McNeal. so did Ron Dugans...so did JoJo Heath.
every player that passed Cincy had potential.
when potential outshines  high level production...you get 3 straight non playoff seasons. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-11-2019, 09:40 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I am absolutely disappointed with his production thus far, Nate, but I am miles from calling him a 4 cyl, or some other lame insult.  

I think his being moved around didn't help him after Lawson was injured, and I wish they would just leave him at LDE and rotate with Dunlap.  Now that MJ is gone, maybe he will be more of a traditional RDE and Hubbard will rotate at LDE.  I'm not sure, but if he comes off the field on passing downs for Lawson, that will limit his chances for sacks. 

The idea of letting Dunlap play something ridiculous like 97% of the snaps makes no sense to me.  He will be more effective during games and down the stretch if he is able to be kept a bit more fresh.  

Although Dunlap and Geno have had solid sack production in the past, I have to wonder a bit about the defensive line coaching.  I can't stand watching MJ take a HUGE arc around to the QB, only to have the LT just ride him wide and create a huge rushing lane for the QB (or throwing lane).  It was so consistently bad...I kept thinking:  "He's setting up a swim move inside...it's third and eight...here it comes...." only to be disappointed to watch him basically take himself out of the play again.  Groan.  Lawson had a strong impact early....I'm hoping he will be back 100%.

Another thing to consider is the division we play in:  The AFC North.  The opposing QBs go:  Piggy, Baker, and Jackson.  Two of those three are very mobile and can scramble for a first down.  You will need those DEs to be very assignment sound or give up easy yardage to them.  I am also hoping for a more aggressive defensive scheme where they blitz more frequently (and creatively...like with a safety).  

This will be Willis's make or break year for his next contract.  I hope he finds his spot and is able to have a huge impact on this team.  

Awesome breakdown, happy we have a new D-line coach although his name escapes me for some reason?

[Whodey614]

(05-11-2019, 12:00 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Awesome breakdown, happy we have a new D-line coach although his name escapes me for some reason?

Nick Eason

Him having AFC North experience as a player will help a lot I feel like. The previous coaches did a good job but too many times our d-line got washed out against Pittsburgh and Baltimore at times. He also coached the Titans d-line that was really good a couple of years ago.

Willis, Glasgow, and Billings have all improved every year they've been in the league. Willis to a less extent but he was a really good run defender in his rookie year and he's shown he's capable winning in pass rush situations. Getting more production out of him will be instrumental especially if Lawson isn't 100% right away.

Hoping this is the year we can see the d-line reach its full potential. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(05-11-2019, 10:34 AM)fredtoast Wrote:   They have to put everybody and everything down to make themselves feel bigger.  So let the playa play.  He needs it for his self esteem.

What the hell is wrong with you people who always get so butt hurt when any fan questions the ability of a Bengals player? You go all super defend mode and say stupid shit like this.

It's ***** pathetic. If you don't like what someone says, refute it with facts or just ignore it. 

People that make negative posts have a very valid reason with the Bengals track record as individual players and as a team. The "new coach" hasn't done jack shit yet, so there's no reason for anyone to have over-the-top expectations, same way as there's no reason to think he's going to flop, but people shouldn't have to be ridiculed because they post a negative opinion of a player or coach.

Some of you need to grow the **** up and learn what a message board is intended for. 

[Socal Bengals fan]

(05-11-2019, 05:35 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: What the hell is wrong with you people who always get so butt hurt when any fan questions the ability of a Bengals player? You go all super defend mode and say stupid shit like this.

It's ***** pathetic. If you don't like what someone says, refute it with facts or just ignore it. 

People that make negative posts have a very valid reason with the Bengals track record as individual players and as a team. The "new coach" hasn't done jack shit yet, so there's no reason for anyone to have over-the-top expectations, same way as there's no reason to think he's going to flop, but people shouldn't have to be ridiculed because they post a negative opinion of a player or coach.

Some of you need to grow the **** up and learn what a message board is intended for. 

This

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-11-2019, 05:35 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: What the hell is wrong with you people who always get so butt hurt when any fan questions the ability of a Bengals player? You go all super defend mode and say stupid shit like this.

It's ***** pathetic. If you don't like what someone says, refute it with facts or just ignore it. 

People that make negative posts have a very valid reason with the Bengals track record as individual players and as a team. The "new coach" hasn't done jack shit yet, so there's no reason for anyone to have over-the-top expectations, same way as there's no reason to think he's going to flop, but people shouldn't have to be ridiculed because they post a negative opinion of a player or coach.

Some of you need to grow the **** up and learn what a message board is intended for. 

Questioning a player's ability isn't what got people "butt hurt", but the absolute insults thrown at a guy.  And when you attack a Bengal player with so many absolute falsehoods on here, i would expect a retort...as though that is what he was after all along. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-11-2019, 01:21 PM)Whodey614 Wrote: Nick Eason

Him having AFC North experience as a player will help a lot I feel like. The previous coaches did a good job but too many times our d-line got washed out against Pittsburgh and Baltimore at times. He also coached the Titans d-line that was really good a couple of years ago.

Willis, Glasgow, and Billings have all improved every year they've been in the league. Willis to a less extent but he was a really good run defender in his rookie year and he's shown he's capable winning in pass rush situations. Getting more production out of him will be instrumental especially if Lawson isn't 100% right away.

Hoping this is the year we can see the d-line reach its full potential. 

Rock on brother, thanks, yeah Eason might be a great hire. I guess i have just concentrated more on Tem cause the Linebackers were so bad last year and i love Tem's resume. Eason as you said coached the Titans DL that was really good, man, loving how things are shaking out this year. I am excited.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-11-2019, 05:35 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: What the hell is wrong with you people who always get so butt hurt when any fan questions the ability of a Bengals player? You go all super defend mode and say stupid shit like this.

It's ***** pathetic. If you don't like what someone says, refute it with facts or just ignore it. 

People that make negative posts have a very valid reason with the Bengals track record as individual players and as a team. The "new coach" hasn't done jack shit yet, so there's no reason for anyone to have over-the-top expectations, same way as there's no reason to think he's going to flop, but people shouldn't have to be ridiculed because they post a negative opinion of a player or coach.

Some of you need to grow the **** up and learn what a message board is intended for. 

LMAO!