(05-11-2019, 10:30 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm not defending Austin at all...it's just a bit scary to say a bad DC hire wrecked 2018 while we roll into 2019 with our 9th choice DC who has a very suspect resume. I'm a pessimist, but part of me thinks we are going to be blaming 2019 on Lou or Jim Turner.
People's obsession with the ding-dongy-ness of this ad makes me think of this scene:
I'm curious what the narrative around here would be if we did manage to hire Jack Del Rio. I feel like it would be viewed universally as a great move, but what if our D flopped again? Would that move be considered terrible in retrospect? If our d finished say 20 last year, and we kept Austin on, would we have been okay with it?
Health is always going to be the determining factor in success or failure. We saw what the offense can do last year before injuries crippled them. The D got better when Austin was fired and they played a more familiar game.
With good health, there's no reason for 10 wins to be out of the question with the roster they have.
"The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
(05-11-2019, 10:30 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm not defending Austin at all...it's just a bit scary to say a bad DC hire wrecked 2018 while we roll into 2019 with our 9th choice DC who has a very suspect resume. I'm a pessimist, but part of me thinks we are going to be blaming 2019 on Lou or Jim Turner.
Yeah...GREAT post.
We will have 2 guys running the offense who were QB Coaches and a guy who was a DB Coach running the Rams Defense.
Could it all work out? Sure. But, there's A LOT of risk in that.
(05-11-2019, 05:55 PM)Bryan Wrote: I'm curious what the narrative around here would be if we did manage to hire Jack Del Rio. I feel like it would be viewed universally as a great move, but what if our D flopped again? Would that move be considered terrible in retrospect? If our d finished say 20 last year, and we kept Austin on, would we have been okay with it?
It would be hard to knock them for trying with Del Rio. He's been a DC for 4 years and his defenses were great every time.
Even if that somehow failed, you'd look at the resume and still understand why they made the move.
And no, I wouldn't have been okay with 20th or worse. I don't know why anyone would.
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
(05-12-2019, 01:48 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: It would be hard to knock them for trying with Del Rio. He's been a DC for 4 years and his defenses were great every time.
Even if that somehow failed, you'd look at the resume and still understand why they made the move.
And no, I wouldn't have been okay with 20th or worse. I don't know why anyone would.
Yes - Del Rio would have been a universally applauded move and I think he would have helped with adding structure to the team and practices.
It was also the obvious move and he seemed to want to come here...then it didn't happen.
With the Taylor hire, the domino's seemed to be lined up to have a HUGE offseason and get the fanbase back, but short of firing Marvin and hiring Taylor...most of the other moves were botched.
They should have went Taylor. Hired Del Rio. Kept Pollack. As OC, Callahan is ok. Not great. Not bad.
Then in free agency, they should have signed 1-2 CLEAR upgrades as opposed to Miller/Hart/Webb. People argue that we need Hart for depth. I'd argue that you never want him playing. Even as a backup.
(05-12-2019, 03:55 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yes - Del Rio would have been a universally applauded move and I think he would have helped with adding structure to the team and practices.
It was also the obvious move and he seemed to want to come here...then it didn't happen.
With the Taylor hire, the domino's seemed to be lined up to have a HUGE offseason and get the fanbase back, but short of firing Marvin and hiring Taylor...most of the other moves were botched.
They should have went Taylor. Hired Del Rio. Kept Pollack. As OC, Callahan is ok. Not great. Not bad.
Then in free agency, they should have signed 1-2 CLEAR upgrades as opposed to Miller/Hart/Webb. People argue that we need Hart for depth. I'd argue that you never want him playing. Even as a backup.
Did anybody else jump on Del Rio and hire him? No? There's probably a reason for that. When you hire a head coach, you let him put his staff together, you don't tie his hands from the get go by putting him together with people that he evidently doesn't see eye to eye with (ie, Del Rio).
Pollack's probably the most overrated person on a Bengals sideline since AJ McCarron. I'm sure he's a good coach, but people talk about him like he's Vince Lombardi. They gave him two new OL starters last year and the results were only slightly better than the year before. I think we'll be just fine without him.
As for Callahan, if a guy like Jon Gruden sees enough in him to put him on his staff that holds weight with me. No problems with that hire at all.
The vast majority of the fanbase wasn't coming back for anything they did in the offseason, be it coaching hires or free agency signing. Period. The only thing that will get people back on board is winning, and throwing a stupid contract at some player in a market that was mostly out of wack or hiring a coach ZT didn't want wasn't going to change that.
(05-12-2019, 04:19 PM)NKURyan Wrote: 1. Did anybody else jump on Del Rio and hire him? No? There's probably a reason for that. 2. When you hire a head coach, you let him put his staff together, you don't tie his hands from the get go by putting him together with people that he evidently doesn't see eye to eye with (ie, Del Rio).
3. Pollack's probably the most overrated person on a Bengals sideline since AJ McCarron. I'm sure he's a good coach, but people talk about him like he's Vince Lombardi. They gave him two new OL starters last year and the results were only slightly better than the year before. I think we'll be just fine without him.
4. As for Callahan, if a guy like Jon Gruden sees enough in him to put him on his staff that holds weight with me. No problems with that hire at all.
5. The vast majority of the fanbase wasn't coming back for anything they did in the offseason, be it coaching hires or free agency signing. Period. The only thing that will get people back on board is winning, and throwing a stupid contract at some player in a market that was mostly out of wack or hiring a coach ZT didn't want wasn't going to change that.
1. Just because a coach sits out a year doesn't make him a bad coach. You talk about Gruden like he's amazing, and he sat out for 10 years.
2. This seems like a cop out. We don't know why Taylor didn't go with Del Rio, but if the reason is "he couldn't work with" a proven coach, while he decided he could work with a clearly mediocre candidate (Anarumo), then I'm at least a little worried about that.
3. Overrated now that he's gone, eh? I don't think Pollack is the 2nd coming or anything, but we did have our best YPC last season since 2000. Our sacks were also greatly reduced until Dalton went down. He seems like a good coach and I think we should leave it at that.
4. I have no problems with the Callahan hire. He's been a part of some good staffs and was interviewed for some OC vacancies last year. That said, the fact that Callahan is also inexperienced made the need for an experienced DC even stronger. That's something the board pretty much universally agreed on beforehand...that we wanted one of the coordinators to be experienced. Only after we hired everyone did no experience suddenly become totally cool (to some).
5. Highly debatable. You and Fred talk like pre-season hype isn't a thing. As if fans don't get excited by off-season moves. If that's the case, why are the Bengals focusing their marketing campaign around a "new dey"? They expect fans to get pumped and buy tickets because we brought in a new coach.
As for "stupid contracts", this is just another case of someone pretending it's Albert Haynesworth type deals or nothing at all. There are plenty of affordable free agents who could've been an upgrade for us.
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
(05-12-2019, 04:58 PM)S hake n Blake Wrote: 5. Highly debatable. You and Fred talk like pre-season hype isn't a thing. As if fans don't get excited by off-season moves. If that's the case, why are the Bengals focusing their marketing campaign around a "new dey"? They expect fans to get pumped and buy tickets because we brought in a new coach.
Actually I have always said that the fans should be excited about having a new head coach. That is what we have been calling for.
I just disagree with the people who claimed that the fans did not care about the head coach unless we brought in a new QB.
(05-12-2019, 05:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually I have always said that the fans should be excited about having a new head coach. That is what we have been calling for.
I just disagree with the people who claimed that the fans did not care about the head coach unless we brought in a new QB.
For me it wasn't just about a new QB, it's the fact that we did nothing else. We didn't add any "name" candidates to the staff and we had a terrible free agency.
Clearly the Bengals think adding a new coach alone will be enough to bring some fans back.
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
(05-12-2019, 04:19 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Did anybody else jump on Del Rio and hire him? No? There's probably a reason for that. When you hire a head coach, you let him put his staff together, you don't tie his hands from the get go by putting him together with people that he evidently doesn't see eye to eye with (ie, Del Rio).
Pollack's probably the most overrated person on a Bengals sideline since AJ McCarron. I'm sure he's a good coach, but people talk about him like he's Vince Lombardi. They gave him two new OL starters last year and the results were only slightly better than the year before. I think we'll be just fine without him.
As for Callahan, if a guy like Jon Gruden sees enough in him to put him on his staff that holds weight with me. No problems with that hire at all.
The vast majority of the fanbase wasn't coming back for anything they did in the offseason, be it coaching hires or free agency signing. Period. The only thing that will get people back on board is winning, and throwing a stupid contract at some player in a market that was mostly out of wack or hiring a coach ZT didn't want wasn't going to change that.
It's funny you point out how no other teams were interested in Del Rio as evidence that he wouldn't be a good hire. Despite the fact that teams have actually hired him as HC and he's been a DC in the NFL before.
Were ANY other teams interested in Lou A as their DC? Were ANY teams interested in Jim Turner as their line coach in the NFL?
(05-12-2019, 05:17 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: For me it wasn't just about a new QB, it's the fact that we did nothing else. We didn't add any "name" candidates to the staff and we had a terrible free agency.
Clearly the Bengals think adding a new coach alone will be enough to bring some fans back.
Or they don't care what fans think which is also plausible.
Like I said, they had the dominos lined up to make this the biggest offseason in the history of the franchise. $50 million in cap space. A willingness to change coaching staffs.
Instead, we're talking about the draft as the biggest takeaway from the offseason. Debating if a TE mocked to go in Round 4 picked in Round 2 was a great pick!
(05-12-2019, 05:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually I have always said that the fans should be excited about having a new head coach. That is what we have been calling for.
I just disagree with the people who claimed that the fans did not care about the head coach unless we brought in a new QB.
BTW, what does your anagram say?
"The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
(05-12-2019, 05:25 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Or they don't care what fans think which is also plausible.
Like I said, they had the dominos lined up to make this the biggest offseason in the history of the franchise. $50 million in cap space. A willingness to change coaching staffs.
Instead, we're talking about the draft as the biggest takeaway from the offseason. Debating if a TE mocked to go in Round 4 picked in Round 2 was a great pick!
Buy some season tickets quick fans!
Just to be clear, I think we're both excited to see how it plays out with the new staff and Jonah Williams. That said, we easily could've knocked this off-season out of the park, and we failed to do so. We did some good things and some bad things. Now I sound like Marv.
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
(05-12-2019, 05:48 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Just to be clear, I think we're both excited to see how it plays out with the new staff and Jonah Williams. That said, we easily could've knocked this off-season out of the park, and we failed to do so. We did some good things and some bad things. Now I sound like Marv.
Yep. Seems like we always go for the C instead of the A.
One has to wonder how much better we'd be IF we signed 2-3 upgrades in free agency...and I'd still argue that we could have just allocated money differently this year.
(05-12-2019, 04:58 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 5. Highly debatable. You and Fred talk like pre-season hype isn't a thing. As if fans don't get excited by off-season moves. If that's the case, why are the Bengals focusing their marketing campaign around a "new dey"? They expect fans to get pumped and buy tickets because we brought in a new coach.
How'd that work for the Reds? They're still bad and they're still not drawing anybody, but hey, it sure was an exciting offseason.
I don't think the Bengals necessarily expect a huge uptick in ticket sales just because they hired a new head coach. I also don't think any free agent signing they made was going to make the slightest bit of difference in ticket sales, either.
(05-12-2019, 05:25 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Instead, we're talking about the draft as the biggest takeaway from the offseason. D
Actually the new head coach is BY FAR the biggest takeaway from this offseason. For years fans complained that the draft did not make any difference if we still had the same coach. But now when they get a new head coach they try to act like it does not even matter
(05-12-2019, 05:25 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: . Debating if a TE mocked to go in Round 4 picked in Round 2 was a great pick!
Actually the biggest news from the draft was that we got the best O-lineman in the entire draft while O-line was our biggest weakness.
Only the whiners ignore that and try to make it all about our second round pick
(05-12-2019, 05:48 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Just to be clear, I think we're both excited to see how it plays out with the new staff and Jonah Williams.
Just to be clear one of you does not even acknowledge that we got Jonah Williams and instead just obsesses over our second round pick because that is the one most used to criticize the Bengals.
I don't know how you can claim to be "excited" after saying that we had to get a new QB for fans to be excited.
And I don't know how you can claim to be excited when doing nothing but making threads and posts about how the offseason was a complete failure and the bengals will never be able to win with our current front office.
I don't know how you can claim to be excited when you mock the fans who are excited by making fun of anyone who wants to buy season tickets.
All of that sounds like the opposite of "being excited".
(05-13-2019, 12:17 PM)fredtoast Wrote: ...just obsesses over our second round pick because that is the one most used to criticize the Bengals.
The whole "OMG the Bengals totally could've got him two or three rounds later thing" has since been debunked by actual reporters with actual knowledge of actual team draft boards, but I guess that's not going to stop the same people who keep wheeling out the whole "3 years and $21 million for Bobby Hart" nugget.
Just look at this thread lol. We've gone from "media expert predicts Andy will have a career year" to (for the millionth time) "here is my list of reasons the front office is bad". It's a constant barrage.
Agree on Dalton disagree on the Defense. Austin was the problem, if anyone here denies that coaching has a big influence in how a team plays they are wrong and going from Guenther to Austin to Marv proves it. We got Pratt to add to the LB core and most notably a new LB coach. We had a decent Defense before Austin got here and we were okay once Marv took over the DC duties. The soft zone and the Linebackers were the problem last year and it stood out like a sore thumb.
Anyone could see it. We will be much better in these areas as i am sure Lou has seen it too.
More aggressive man with more disciplined LB play and we will be back to being a good Defense.
We have a good D-line and Secondary if coached properly.
(05-13-2019, 11:46 AM)NKURyan Wrote: How'd that work for the Reds? They're still bad and they're still not drawing anybody, but hey, it sure was an exciting offseason.
I don't think the Bengals necessarily expect a huge uptick in ticket sales just because they hired a new head coach. I also don't think any free agent signing they made was going to make the slightest bit of difference in ticket sales, either.
Apples and oranges, and tbh I don't think the Reds off-season was all that thrilling.
(05-13-2019, 12:17 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 1. Just to be clear one of you does not even acknowledge that we got Jonah Williams and instead just obsesses over our second round pick because that is the one most used to criticize the Bengals.
2. I don't know how you can claim to be "excited" after saying that we had to get a new QB for fans to be excited.
3. And I don't know how you can claim to be excited when doing nothing but making threads and posts about how the offseason was a complete failure and the bengals will never be able to win with our current front office.
4. I don't know how you can claim to be excited when you mock the fans who are excited by making fun of anyone who wants to buy season tickets.
All of that sounds like the opposite of "being excited".
1. I've defended the Sample pick and even said I liked it.
2. I predicted a QB may be likely to sell tickets. Never said I personally needed one to be excited.
3. Show any post by me saying this off-season was a complete failure.
4. I've never done that.
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
![[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]](https://i.imgur.com/4CV0TeR.png)
