What type of improvements can we expect in player development from coaching?

[*Nately120*]

(05-09-2019, 02:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You have no idea what great coaches say to their players to motivate them.

Well, hopefully ZT can say whatever Dalton and company need to hear to motivate them to stop being humiliated by the Steelers.  I assume Marvin just said "Go out there and lose, for all I care" and then the Bengals were like "Oh ok, we can do that."  

[McC]

Better drills.
Better teaching methods.
Improved technique, better play.

[fredtoast]

(05-09-2019, 02:12 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Well, hopefully ZT can say whatever Dalton and company need to hear to motivate them to stop being humiliated by the Steelers. 

No pep talk will do it.

What they need to hear is "This is how we attack their defense.  .  .  " and "This is how we stop their offense.  .  .  ".

But IT HAS TO WORK before it will have any motivational impact.

I am not saying that motivating players when their heads are hanging is not important.  I am just saying it takes more than a pep talk or a threat to cut them.  It requires a belief by the players that their coach can fix the problem.

[Bengalholic]

(05-09-2019, 01:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: BB wins because he is smarter than other coaches not because he benches players more often or yells louder.  Players have more confidence playing under BB because BB is smarter, not because he "pushes their buttons" better. 

Yes, Belichik is usually smarter, but he also pushes buttons, and does so purposely as a form of motivation. One example is berating players in the film room and making them watch their mistakes over and over.

"The idea is to take it personally," Bruschi said. "Bill wants you to do that. You get angry, and you get embarrassed. But then you get to the point where you want to fix it, and fix it badly."

"But I've got to tell you, it works," he said. "I made a mistake, and it was pointed out so many times I never made it again."

'Belichick's current and former players and coaches say his vicious film critiques have been part of his motivational arsenal for as long as they can remember.'

[*bengalfan74*]

(05-09-2019, 01:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I think all this talk of "culture" and "motivation" and "pushing buttons" is mostly BS.

If a team is getting beaten on the field the coach has to make some change in scheme or personnel. I don't believe jumping up and down and saying "Yipee!! You can do it!" or pitching a hissy fit makes any difference at all.  It might help some high school kids, but I don't see it working with grown men.

There have been great coaches who were very fiery and there have been great coaches who were stoic.  There have been terrible coaches who were very emotional and terrible coaches who were very stoic.  At the NFL level coaching is about being smarter not about emotional speeches or squealing louder.

The only way a coach can motivate a team is to show them that he has the brains to help them win.  And the best coaches win in the week before a game instead of on the sidelines.

Who said anything about that ?

A good coach changes the culture by winning and he wins by knowing what to do and when to do it. That's what changes the culture, that's what instills confidence. That's what gains him respect.

The players liked ML as a person but when the rubber meets the road they didn't respect him as their HC, their leader. Finding ways to lose was a ML staple.

[*bengalfan74*]

(05-09-2019, 02:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No pep talk will do it.

What they need to hear is "This is how we attack their defense.  .  .  " and "This is how we stop their offense.  .  .  ".

But IT HAS TO WORK before it will have any motivational impact.

I am not saying that motivating players when their heads are hanging is not important.  I am just saying it takes more than a pep talk or a threat to cut them. It requires a belief by the players that their coach can fix the problem.

Fred the only person on here talking about pep talks or yelling is you. And yes it requires respect and belief.

[fredtoast]

(05-09-2019, 03:19 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Fred the only person on here talking about pep talks or yelling is you. And yes it requires respect and belief.

So what does "motivating by fear or positive reinforcement" mean?

What does "pushing buttons" mean?

[fredtoast]

(05-09-2019, 03:15 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: The players liked ML as a person but when the rubber meets the road they didn't respect him as their HC, their leader. 

This is ridiculous.

You can't just make stuff up out of thin air and claim it is true.

[THE PISTONS]

(05-09-2019, 02:12 PM)McC Wrote: Better drills.
Better teaching methods.
Improved technique, better play.

That's precisely the biggest benefit of a change I can think of too. Things get 'stale'. Players get a little complacent doing the same things year after year.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

I believe discipline will improve, and they are adding smart players in the draft.  That alone should help curb the knuckleheaded shit that has gone on for the last 16 years.

From what I've read, Captain Lou is simplifying things, whereas Austin was very complex, and had a lot of "gray areas" in his philosophy.  That's why you saw guys looking at each other with their shoulders shrugged last season.

Concise communication has been emphatically driven home as the focus of this staff.  There are more of them too, which allows subordinates to zone in and focus on one aspect of the game.

I don't know how the positional coaches will do in the development of players, but I feel that the schemes and the attention to detail of such a large staff will pay dividends.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(05-09-2019, 01:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The players already know all of this.  


BB has a lot of draft picks and free agents that flop.  What did he get out of Haynesworth and Ocho?

BB wins because he is smarter than other coaches not because he benches players more often or yells louder.  Players have more confidence playing under BB because BB is smarter, not because he "pushes their buttons" better. 

The only way to get players to "believe they can win" is to win.  It is that simple.  Every coach on the planet tells his players they can win, but it is meaningless if they don't win.

According to Martellus Bennett, Belichick rakes Brady over the coals quite frequently in front of the entire team.  If you're doing that to the GOAT, you're doing it to everyone. 

[depthchart]

(05-10-2019, 01:52 PM)Wyche Wrote: According to Martellus Bennett, Belichick rakes Brady over the coals quite frequently in front of the entire team.  If you're doing that to the GOAT, you're doing it to everyone. 

Remember running back Jonas Gray.

He ran for 201 yards and 4 touchdowns against the Colts while he was with the Patriots.

The week after that he was getting a TON of positive Media attention & maybe a Big Head.

 Later that week (after the Colts game) he missed a Patriots meeting and said that he overslept.

Bill Belichick inactivated him for the upcoming game and he hardly played the rest the remaining 9 games of that season.

Then he got released before the next season.

Talk about sending a message.

[fredtoast]

(05-10-2019, 01:52 PM)Wyche Wrote: According to Martellus Bennett, Belichick rakes Brady over the coals quite frequently in front of the entire team.  If you're doing that to the GOAT, you're doing it to everyone. 

I am sure Bengal players get ripped in film sessions also.

In fact I assume it happens with every team.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(05-10-2019, 02:07 PM)depthchart Wrote: Remember running back Jonas Gray.

He ran for 201 yards and 4 touchdowns against the Colts while he was with the Patriots.

The week after that he was getting a TON of positive Media attention & maybe a Big Head.

 Later that week (after the Colts game) he missed a Patriots meeting and said that he overslept.

Bill Belichick inactivated him for the upcoming game and he hardly played the rest the remaining 9 games of that season.

Then he got released before the next season.

Talk about sending a message.

No doubt.

(05-10-2019, 02:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am sure Bengal players get ripped in film sessions also.

In fact I assume it happens with every team.

I'm not so sure.  Reports out of Shitsburgh are that certain players are given passes, and Pig Pen gets to run the show.

Also, as depthchart noted, Belichick doesn't eff around with anyone.  Get in line, or get out.  I never got that feeling from Marvin.  

The quote Bennett gave was Bill saying something like "....if we had a quarterback who could throw the damn ball...."  I mean, I think Brady has proven he can throw the rock....lol.  

Anyway, point being, Belichick absolutely motivates his guys with fear tactics and I guess you'd call it shaming them/pissing them off with arrogant sarcasm.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-09-2019, 09:42 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I occasionally read on the boards that changing coaches will help player development. Kind of like ZT will sprinkle his magic fairy dust over the roster and our Madden ratings will raise from 59 to 73.

This isn't new. Last year, Pollack was expected to do the same thing with the offensive line. It's really hard to compare the work he did though because the line had 4 new starters (Hart/Redmond/Price/Glenn). The line was slightly better than the year before, but still a bottom 5 offensive line.

Then, there was Austin. He was brought in to revive the defense after Guenther left and we saw that disaster unfold. The thing is, Austin was fairly well regarded around the league as a young defensive mind.

Then, Lazor took over for Zampese. Once, again...let the lazor show begin! The offense was good at times early last year, but when Eifert got hurt the wheels came off.

What improvements can we realistically expect as far as player development from these new coaches? Should we expect 800 yards from Ross? 100 Tackles from Jefferson? 6 sacks from Billings?

We will see, all i know is coaching changes needed to be made and Austin and Haslett were two of the worst coaches i have ever seen. Kind of hard not to be an upgrade after what we saw last year and i like Lou's resume and love Tem's. The Offense should be much better with a better O-line with Jonah Williams on it and an Offensive minded coach.

Ross might make the jump in his 3rd year with Taylor working with him who worked with the young Receivers with the Rams in Kupp and company. Callahan is a good Offensive mind.

I liked hearing that Billings improved last season as the year went on. The dude is still young and should come around. He needs to use his hands a little better and guide the Guard out of the play and prevent the Guard from washing him out. This is what i see with Billings he needs to learn to read the play so he can utilize his crazy strength.