Rookie Minicamp Article

[3wt]

(05-14-2019, 05:18 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: turners biggest problem...  Was that martin couldn't handled it mentally.

Ridiculous that a mountain of a man in one of the toughest games in the world could not handle another player "bullying" him.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-14-2019, 05:25 PM)3wt Wrote: Ridiculous that a mountain of a man in one of the toughest games in the world could not handle another player "bullying" him.

I find it quite sad honestly, man up damn it!

[SunsetBengal]

(05-14-2019, 05:18 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: turners biggest problem...  Was that martin couldn't handled it mentally.

With Turner's Marine Corps background, I'm not surprised.  Psychological abuse can either make the strong rise to the top, or the weak spirited simply give up.  They used to call it "building character".  Not so sure that I agree with all of those tactics, but I'm definitely familiar with them.  My father was a Marine.  When I was growing up and didn't carry myself "up to standards";  I'm pretty sure that I experienced some of those tactics.

[*Nately120*]

(05-14-2019, 05:18 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: turners biggest problem...  Was that martin couldn't handled it mentally.

I thought it was more about Richie Incognito being the bully and Turner being ok with it.  It does seem a little strange Martin being an NFL player couldn't or didn't want to deal with it, but Richie Incognito has shown he's quite the sociopath since this, too.

Neither Martin nor Incognito did much in the NFL outside of this situation, so my biggest gripe is that Turner let two minor players take center stage while the team itself was a bit of a mess.  It looks like bad football/coaching more than anything, but that's my take.

[SunsetBengal]

(05-14-2019, 06:08 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I thought it was more about Richie Incognito being the bully and Turner being ok with it.  It does seem a little strange Martin being an NFL player couldn't or didn't want to deal with it, but Richie Incognito has shown he's quite the sociopath since this, too.

Neither Martin nor Incognito did much in the NFL outside of this situation, so my biggest gripe is that Turner let two minor players take center stage while the team itself was a bit of a mess.  It looks like bad football/coaching more than anything, but that's my take.

But, but Incognito won the 2012 Good Guy award, from the Pro Football Writers Association.  

[*Synric*]

(05-14-2019, 05:45 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: With Turner's Marine Corps background, I'm not surprised.  Psychological abuse can either make the strong rise to the top, or the weak spirited simply give up.  They used to call it "building character".  Not so sure that I agree with all of those tactics, but I'm definitely familiar with them.  My father was a Marine.  When I was growing up and didn't carry myself "up to standards";  I'm pretty sure that I experienced some of those tactics.

I dont know about the Marines because I was in the Army. HOOAH, but once the drill sergeant made a guy cry in basic they took him to the side apologized and asked if he needed someone to talk too....

Its definitely not your grandpa's military anymore.

[MentalRage]

Didn't Jim Turner give the olinemen in Miami female blow up sex dolls and then gave one player (Martin) a male blow up sex doll? I think the problem was that Incognito and Turner were giving Martin a hard time about possibly being gay.

I know the blow up dolls were a joke, but if I'm running a franchise I'd like to think the coaches I hired would act a bit more professional. I highly doubt anything like that would happen in Andy Reid's or Belichick's locker room.

[3wt]

(05-14-2019, 05:45 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: With Turner's Marine Corps background, I'm not surprised.  Psychological abuse can either make the strong rise to the top, or the weak spirited simply give up.  They used to call it "building character".  Not so sure that I agree with all of those tactics, but I'm definitely familiar with them.  My father was a Marine.  When I was growing up and didn't carry myself "up to standards";  I'm pretty sure that I experienced some of those tactics.

A valid point for raising children - and I agree that some people respond better to other ways of challenging them.  But these were grown men, and the bullying I think involved Richie Incognito - another player.

If Turner was employing a drill sergeant technique that was part of the problem, he has either modified his behavior, or it was never an issue for the typical NFL player as evidenced by the fact that no other player complained.

[sandwedge]

(05-15-2019, 09:49 AM)MentalRage Wrote: Didn't Jim Turner give the olinemen in Miami female blow up sex dolls and then gave one player (Martin) a male blow up sex doll? I think the problem was that Incognito and Turner were giving Martin a hard time about possibly being gay.

I know the blow up dolls were a joke, but if I'm running a franchise I'd like to think the coaches I hired would act a bit more professional. I highly doubt anything like that would happen in Andy Reid's or Belichick's locker room.

That is my problem with Turner. It kind of sickens me, that an ex-officer in any branch of the military would act this childish and unprofessional. 

[sandwedge]

(05-14-2019, 05:45 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: With Turner's Marine Corps background, I'm not surprised.  Psychological abuse can either make the strong rise to the top, or the weak spirited simply give up.  They used to call it "building character".  Not so sure that I agree with all of those tactics, but I'm definitely familiar with them.  My father was a Marine.  When I was growing up and didn't carry myself "up to standards";  I'm pretty sure that I experienced some of those tactics.

I had to endure pretty much the samething. I've been with my wife for 10 years now and she came with 3 kids, I had to learn that kids are not grown men, it took me awhile though. Sometimes painful....

[ward4239@icloud.com]

I spoke to several lineman and not one said anything bad about the coach, in fact they like him.

[fredtoast]

I have 2 nephews that were in the marines. From what they told me the drill sargents job is to get the grunts to work together as a team. So a good drill sargent would never allow them to pick out one member to bully and abuse. Attacking a player with sexual allegations has nothing to do with how he plays on the field. It is childish and unprofessional.

[fredtoast]

(05-14-2019, 05:25 PM)3wt Wrote: Ridiculous that a mountain of a man in one of the toughest games in the world could not handle another player "bullying" him.

It was not just "one player". It was the coach and most of the other O-linemen.

What should he have done. Beat up his position coach.

[fredtoast]

(05-14-2019, 05:18 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: turners biggest problem...  Was that martin couldn't handled it mentally.

And those silly women who were offended by his comments.

Women today just don't know how to take a compliment.

It was fine to talk to women like that when i was growing up. That means it should still be okay today, right?

[grampahol]

(05-15-2019, 11:41 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I have 2 nephews that were in the marines. From what they told me the drill sargents job is to get the grunts to work together as a team. So a good drill sargent would never allow them to pick out one member to bully and abuse.  Attacking a player with sexual allegations has nothing to do with how he plays on the field. It is childish and unprofessional.

My father was a Marine and for a very short period a DI. He would agree 100% with getting everyone to work together, but occasionally growing up the bully mentality showed.. Now at 90 he likes to pretend he still has "it" to be a tough marine. Then I have to remind him that he's 90, not 20..

[Whatever]

(05-15-2019, 11:41 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I have 2 nephews that were in the marines. From what they told me the drill sargents job is to get the grunts to work together as a team. So a good drill sargent would never allow them to pick out one member to bully and abuse.  Attacking a player with sexual allegations has nothing to do with how he plays on the field. It is childish and unprofessional.

The Marines are a lot different today than they were back when Turner was enlisted.

[depthchart]

(05-15-2019, 11:45 AM)fredtoast Wrote: It was not just "one player". It was the coach and most of the other O-linemen.

What should he have done. Beat up his position coach.

I agree with you here, Fred.

Turner was a grown man in a Leadership position and him not knowing better puts Red Flags all over him in my eyes. I would not have hired him as our line Coach.

Incognito was a grown man at nearly 30 years old when it all went down.

Martin was 22 years old when it started, just out of College and hoping to fit in with a group of men in a new environment.

Other linemen may have either joined in or shunned Martin just to avoid peer pressure from Turner and Incognito.

It was reported that Incognito left voicemails to Martin threatening him & his family.

I'm hoping Zac pans out, however, I question his choice to hire Turner to Lead the O-line Unit.  Key word is UNIT.

 Loss of his job in Miami & Media Peer pressure hit Turner hard and supposedly he has learned from this and will now stop fostering Peer pressure on young men under his leadership where that Peer pressure could harm that young man's ability to keep his job.

Incognito & Turner acted like juveniles and deserved the backlash they received. Full on Karma.

Zac better watch the O-line room like a hawk for signs that Turner hasn't changed his stripes and if I were a Head Coach I would not have signed myself up to have to do that.

[*bfine32*]

(05-15-2019, 11:45 AM)fredtoast Wrote: It was not just "one player". It was the coach and most of the other O-linemen.

What should he have done. Beat up his position coach.

(05-15-2019, 12:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And those silly women who were offended by his comments.

Women today just don't know how to take a compliment.

It was fine to talk to women like that when i was growing up. That means it should still be okay today, right?

You do realize those 2 may have been joking, at least I hope so. 

[Hoofhearted]

(05-15-2019, 01:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You do realize those 2 may have been joking, at least I hope so. 

Yeah, I hope so to...

[fredtoast]

(05-15-2019, 01:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You do realize those 2 may have been joking, at least I hope so. 

How exactly am I supposed to tell the difference between their post and the others supporting Turner's behavior?