How To Make the Defense Legit

[PAjwPhilly]

Lou Anarumo is the defensive coordinator (for those that never picked up his name). He has 4-3 experience (Kevin Coyle assistant/ Miami). And he has 3-4 experience (James Bettcher assistant/ Giants). Supposedly Coyle's 4-3 has some similarities with Zimmer's 4-3 once ran here in Cincinnati: Double A-gap blitz and pressing corner backs. And he wants to incorporate some of his 3-4 stuff into our defense as well.

I'd say that our defensive unit is... Average secondary, below average LBs, above average defensive line.

So... how do you make this work?

I feel that last year we ran passive defenses too often. We didn't seem to do anything creative. It always seemed like we rushed 4 and dropped our LBs into coverage. But I only get to watch the game once (Sunday Ticket). I remember a post game comment where Carlos mentioned... you can't just do the same thing all the time and expect something to change.

I am under the impression that if you can't hold coverage for 4, 5, or 6 seconds you need to blitz hard and play underneath. But I never saw that from us last year. I rarely ever see a D-line shift late in the snap count, even D-line twists, or bringing multiple blitzes from the same area (all of which I would label creative for us).

How do you go about using our 2019 unit to be the best it can be?


https://www.bengals.com/news/bengals-defense-now-skipping-to-lou

[THE PISTONS]

Coyle was with the Bengals under Zimmer...so I'd say it's similar. Coyle was a bad DC in Miami.

But, I do like aggressive defenses. I do think our pass rush is the best quality of the defense. I'd put Lawson and Hubbard out there at the same time to pass rush. Generally you give up more big plays with aggressive defenses, but you may create more too.

With how bad our linebackers were in coverage though, the QB could just dump the ball to a back or TE when the pressure got close.

[bengals67]

Below average D line- cannot stop the run and minimal pressure on QB.

Average secondary

Substantially below average LBs

Substantially below average D. They were awful last year and they have not added anyone of significance.

[SunsetBengal]

The way to make the defense legit is simple, you get tough up the middle. By forcing the opponents into obvious passing situations, you give your pass rushers (and we do have a few of them) a serious advantage in forcing the QB to make hurried throws. When you allow teams to gain consistent yardage on runs between the tackles, the defense is always in guessing mode, as the entire playbook is always open for the offense.

The next best way to improve the defense is for the offense to put points on the board. Teams playing from a deficit are always more apt to take chances and risk costly mistakes.

[J24]

I would say this Defense has a top 10 secondary and a top 5 Dline with a healthy.
In the last 5 games of the year the Defense was on pace per 16 games to have the 5th best 3rd down Defense, 2nd best in allowing first downs, and 11th in scoring.
That's without a Carl Lawson on the edge, a healthy Nick Vigil at LB, and a new toy in Germaine Pratt.
I hope lou saw what Marvin did at the end of last year and copies a lot of it.

[NKURyan]

Run the ball and eat the clock.

[THE PISTONS]

(05-13-2019, 06:42 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: I would say this Defense has a top 10 secondary and a top 5 Dline with a healthy.  
In the last 5 games of the year the Defense was on pace per 16 games to have the 5th best 3rd down Defense, 2nd best in allowing first downs, and 11th in scoring.
That's without a Carl Lawson on the edge, a healthy Nick Vigil at LB, and a new toy in Germaine Pratt.
I hope lou saw what Marvin did at the end of last year and copies a lot of it.

PFF had our secondary ranked 7th.
They had our LB's worked LAST...by a far margin. We gave up an obscene amount of yards receiving from our LB group.

They had our offensive line as 27. (The Rams was 6th.)

Not sure about Defensive Line.

The way to have a good team is to minimize how many bad starters you have. You don't need stars at every position. You need a few stars, and then a bunch of average guys.

[McC]

(05-13-2019, 07:22 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: PFF had our secondary ranked 7th.
They had our LB's worked LAST...by a far margin. We gave up an obscene amount of yards receiving from our LB group.

They had our offensive line as 27. (The Rams was 6th.)

Not sure about Defensive Line.

The way to have a good team is to minimize how many bad starters you have. You don't need stars at every position. You need a few stars, and then a bunch of average guys.

We've knocked two bad starters off the OLine and one bad starter off the LB corps and one mediocre starter off the DLine.  The job's not over but there has been progress made.

[Socal Bengals fan]

Our Dline is kinda overrated. They have Dunlap n Atkins n bunch of ok players. I think Lawson bulked up way to much and he lost some agility. We need another big body in the middle. A proven vet that can take on blockers.

[grampahol]

I think much will depend on whether Pratt and Davis are the real deals. If those two guys can come out and deliver the goods our defense will look a whole lot better than the past several seasons.

[THE PISTONS]

(05-13-2019, 10:23 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Our Dline is kinda overrated.   They have Dunlap n Atkins n bunch of ok players.  I think Lawson bulked up way to much and he lost some agility.  We need another big body in the middle.  A proven vet that can take on blockers.

Atkins is a HOF DT. That definitely elevates the play of the guys around him.

I think Hubbard has potential. He still needs to improve, but he made a decent amount of splash plays.

It's hard to say on Lawson. He'd make a great 3-4 OLB. In a 4-3, you have to kind of put him at DE...but he's not good against the run. He's kind of a tweener. He can flat out rush the QB though, he just wasn't finishing sacks...and maybe it was that agility.

Glasgow was doing excellent before his injury. He had really high PFF grades. Then guys like Billings were decent. Not spectacular. Not bad. Decent.

I'd LOVE to see a 10-12 sack season out of Dunlap. He kind of hovers in the 7-8 sack range most years.

[Bilbo Saggins]

How to?  I like a kitchen sink type of defense that can cause confusion with different looks ala Steve Spagnuolo.  I like an identity shifting defense that can attack your tendencies and force you out of your comfort zone.  I like a defense that takes calculated risks, but doesn't get burnt to a crisp when they don't pay off.  I also like a defense that can win at the line of scrimmage.  Easier said than done haha.

[NATI BENGALS]

If our young guys on the DL like Billings, Hubbard, and Willis improve and Lawson and Glasgow come back healthy our DL is looking really good.

I want 5 rushing. Our best defensive linemen are probably Atkins, Dunlap, Lawson, Hubbard, and Glasgow. So put Dunlap and Hubbard at DE, Atkins and Glasgow at DT, and let Lawson pick his spot.

Preston can lead the league in tackles again and Vigil has not peaked. If those two are healthy and play the majority of our LB snaps we are instantly better. But just in case we do have better depth there compared to last year with Pratt and Davis to add to Malik Jefferson and Jordan Evans.

Bates is a baller. WJ3 is a baller. Captain Kirk is a fighter. Dennard is fighting for a payday. And Shawn Williams will smash your face in.

Press man attacking D and Bates gets to roam around and make plays.

[Jason_NC]

(05-13-2019, 11:29 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Atkins is a HOF DT. That definitely elevates the play of the guys around him.

I think Hubbard has potential. He still needs to improve, but he made a decent amount of splash plays.


I'd LOVE to see a 10-12 sack season out of Dunlap. He kind of hovers in the 7-8 sack range most years.

I'd like to see them bulk Sam up a little and make him our LDE, and have Dunlap shed a few pounds and play RDE.  Then on nickel move Dunlap back to LDE and put in Lawson.

[kevin]

Improved Blocking by Bengals Offensive Line will improve not only the Offense but the Defense. Field Position and Time Of Possession are huge parts of football and why it is said the best Defense is a good Offense. If the Bengals can Block better, they score more points than they have been, but they also eat more clock, and that keeps the big name NFL quarterbacks of other teams the heck off the field. Especially late in the game, you don't want to give Big Ben or other QBs a shot at winning in the last 2 minutes because your O Line couldn't get the job done. It's so much easier when you can Run out the clock. Not pass out the clock, Run out the clock. Those Runs eat clock and force other team to use all their time outs, but Bengals haven't been able to put other teams in that position in years due to poor Blocking and Coach Lewis weakness always was not using the game clock right.

Yes the Bengals need improved D, but I disagree with those who say our D was worse than our O Line. I say nothing was worse than our O Line the last 3 years. In fact some years our D kept us in games, not last year, but 2017. So the D needs improved. I'm glad to see Burfict move on because he hardly ever played each year, and that's no good, you need players you can count on to suit up and play. I also think he didn't add leadership, he added playing out of control and lack of focus on game situations. A Marvin player that I'm glad left with Marvin. Get this D looking to other leaders with more leadership & focus. Not standing out there yelling at the Refs, but instead focused on The Game.

I feel there is a good chance Bengals O Line is better in 2019 and Bengals Defense is better in 2019. That's not a reach because as bad as Bengals were, there is no direction but UP. I think the D will be better and we still have Atkins & Dunlap, 2 of the best Bengals ever. The best Defense is a good Offense. Get that O Line firing off the snap, laying the blocks on other teams to move our running game and passing game. Blockers laying the hits on, moving the ball, eating clock with our D and the other teams Quarterback on the bench watching our O Line on the field taking charge. Bengals haven't had THAT in a long time.

GO BENGALS.....NEW DEY.

[Sled21]

Do some of you even watch Bengals football? Average secondary? They ranked 7th in the league, with the worst linebacking corp in the league in front of them. I'd say that's well above average.....

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-13-2019, 04:50 PM)PAjwPhilly Wrote: Lou Anarumo is the defensive coordinator (for those that never picked up his name). He has 4-3 experience (Kevin Coyle assistant/ Miami). And he has 3-4 experience (James Bettcher assistant/ Giants). Supposedly Coyle's 4-3 has some similarities with Zimmer's 4-3 once ran here in Cincinnati: Double A-gap blitz and pressing corner backs. And he wants to incorporate some of his 3-4 stuff into our defense as well.

I'd say that our defensive unit is... Average secondary, below average LBs, above average defensive line.

So... how do you make this work?

I feel that last year we ran passive defenses too often. We didn't seem to do anything creative. It always seemed like we rushed 4 and dropped our LBs into coverage. But I only get to watch the game once (Sunday Ticket). I remember a post game comment where Carlos mentioned... you can't just do the same thing all the time and expect something to change.

I am under the impression that if you can't hold coverage for 4, 5, or 6 seconds you need to blitz hard and play underneath. But I never saw that from us last year. I rarely ever see a D-line shift late in the snap count, even D-line twists, or bringing multiple blitzes from the same area (all of which I would label creative for us).

How do you go about using our 2019 unit to be the best it can be?


https://www.bengals.com/news/bengals-defense-now-skipping-to-lou

Well as you said, have to be much more aggressive and creative on Defense then we were last year for one. The Linebackers need to be in position to stop those dumpoffs that plagued us last year. It was unfair to the D-line how bad the LB's played, the DL would rush the passer and work their ass off only for the LB's to be in the wrong positions chasing down plays from behind which continually resulted in first downs.

It was frustrating, it was also unfair to our Corners asking them to play that soft zone cushion crap.

I think if we just play more aggressive man to man and our LB's clean up dump offs and screens we will be back to being a legit Defense. As you say, we have the D-line and i believe we have good to very good Safeties, Bates is a stud.

[*ochocincos*]

The secondary as a whole is better than average.
The DL is not a top 10 DL. Atkins and Dunlap are good. The Bengals need a consistent threat besides those two. As it stands, someone is going to have to step up in order for that to happen.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-14-2019, 10:47 AM)ochocincos Wrote: The secondary as a whole is better than average.
The DL is not a top 10 DL. Atkins and Dunlap are good. The Bengals need a consistent threat besides those two. As it stands, someone is going to have to step up in order for that to happen.

I usually agree with you on pretty much everything Ocho but i disagree here.

Lawson when healthy is a terror on the edge and Hubbard was great for a rookie last season. Willis needs to come on that is for sure but i think we have a very good End rotation and Geno is not just good, he is a top 5 DT easily. Billings got better last year and Glasgow has been really good since he came in the league.

[bengals67]

(05-13-2019, 10:23 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Our Dline is kinda overrated.   They have Dunlap n Atkins n bunch of ok players.  I think Lawson bulked up way to much and he lost some agility.  We need another big body in the middle.  A proven vet that can take on blockers.

I agree 100% with this assessment.

An above average D line would not have allowed the record yards rushing Bengals gave up last year.