Boom or Bust Draft

[3wt]

Ross Tucker called our draft "Meh";   Kiper & McShay graded our draft out at A-

So we have a boom or bust draft here:

1. Jonah Williams - Dropped because no one could certify he'd be a quality tackle and because of ordinary measurable and athleticism; BUT superior production against elite competition, superior intelligence, love of the game, superior technique and mental toughness
2. Drew Sample - Roundly criticized pick because of paltry production in the receiving game and the belief he'd be there as late as the 4th round; BUT film showed that he was frequently open, caught everything thrown to him, was the consensus best blocking TE in the 2019 class and would not have been there in the 3rd Round
3. Germaine Pratt - Liked by most but loved by none.  Former safety with good production but stiff hips and limited athleticism;  BUT superior production, excellent speed, demonstrated ability to cover and a great tackler.
4. Ryan Finley - Meh QB in this class.   Tucker calls him, "Dalton Lite".   Average to below average arm.  Inconsistent.  BUT - when he's on he's VERY accurate, has great intelligence and is a big time competitor.
5. Renell Wren - Inconsistent performance.  Raw.  BUT - Big time size/ length, great quickness, motivated (late) towards practice and film work, when he's performing up to his capabilities is dominant.  I read that as he's inconsistent because of lack of experience not motivation or brains.  Deemed very coachable.
6. Michael Jordan - Has poor techniques and sluggish feet and is prone to quick combination moves; BUT has great size, was smart enough to make the calls as center and is likely to grow into his size as he cleans up his technique
7. Trayveon Williams - Smaller back with limited power and limited vision;  BUT gained mentally and physically in his last season, has great production is an alpha player that sparks the rest of the team.
8. Deshaun Davis - Smaller linebacker with average to slow speed;  BUT is very smart, knows where to be, sheds well and gets there quicker than faster linebackers - and hits like a tank
9. Rodney Anderson - Talented and well sized running back with a significant history of injuries; BUT the film when he's healthy is excellent and has the potential to be the perfect backup to Mixon
10. Jordan Brown - Good sized corner who is perceived as not being physical and a poor tackler;  BUT has terrific size/ speed ratio, has really good ball skills and can "smother" underneath routes
    

It's the Kool-Aid, rose colored glasses and homer time of the year I realize.  But I think the draft has the potential to be excellent.  And I'm intrigued by the UDFA QB as well.   I particularly am excited about the first 3 picks and Wren, Jordan and Davis.  They have the potential to be game changers by the end of the season.  So I'm saying BOOM.

What say you?  Boom or bust?

[wildcatnku24]

I predict that this will be a boom draft, but of course wouldn't say it with 100% confidence due to the nature of the draft itself (it's a gamble). However, I really think that every pick did seem quite tactical by nature and you can see their plan by their actions as well as their words, which isn't always the case for our Bengals.

Last year we were first in the AFC for the first quarter of the season. We certainly haven't gotten worse based on talent, I'd argue, but instead have the potential to improve. I think that's all you can ask for.

[jj22]

It was a foundation draft. Nothing flashy.

[*Go Cards*]

Not flashy but it was what we needed.

Think it will be a BOOM.

[XenoMorph]

(05-16-2019, 05:33 PM)3wt Wrote: Ross Tucker called our draft "Meh";   Kiper & McShay graded our draft out at A-

So we have a boom or bust draft here:

1. Jonah Williams - Dropped because no one could certify he'd be a quality tackle and because of ordinary measurable and athleticism; BUT superior production against elite competition, superior intelligence, love of the game, superior technique and mental toughness
2. Drew Sample - Roundly criticized pick because of paltry production in the receiving game and the belief he'd be there as late as the 4th round; BUT film showed that he was frequently open, caught everything thrown to him, was the consensus best blocking TE in the 2019 class and would not have been there in the 3rd Round
3. Germaine Pratt - Liked by most but loved by none.  Former safety with good production but stiff hips and limited athleticism;  BUT superior production, excellent speed, demonstrated ability to cover and a great tackler.
4. Ryan Finley - Meh QB in this class.   Tucker calls him, "Dalton Lite".   Average to below average arm.  Inconsistent.  BUT - when he's on he's VERY accurate, has great intelligence and is a big time competitor.
5. Renell Wren - Inconsistent performance.  Raw.  BUT - Big time size/ length, great quickness, motivated (late) towards practice and film work, when he's performing up to his capabilities is dominant.  I read that as he's inconsistent because of lack of experience not motivation or brains.  Deemed very coachable.
6. Michael Jordan - Has poor techniques and sluggish feet and is prone to quick combination moves; BUT has great size, was smart enough to make the calls as center and is likely to grow into his size as he cleans up his technique
7. Trayveon Williams - Smaller back with limited power and limited vision;  BUT gained mentally and physically in his last season, has great production is an alpha player that sparks the rest of the team.
8. Deshaun Davis - Smaller linebacker with average to slow speed;  BUT is very smart, knows where to be, sheds well and gets there quicker than faster linebackers - and hits like a tank
9. Rodney Anderson - Talented and well sized running back with a significant history of injuries; BUT the film when he's healthy is excellent and has the potential to be the perfect backup to Mixon
10. Jordan Brown - Good sized corner who is perceived as not being physical and a poor tackler;  BUT has terrific size/ speed ratio, has really good ball skills and can "smother" underneath routes
    

It's the Kool-Aid, rose colored glasses and homer time of the year I realize.  But I think the draft has the potential to be excellent.  And I'm intrigued by the UDFA QB as well.   I particularly am excited about the first 3 picks and Wren, Jordan and Davis.  They have the potential to be game changers by the end of the season.  So I'm saying BOOM.

What say you?  Boom or bust?

 we didn't take a lot of risky picks so I don't see the bust side of it...  just another draft. they are all crapshoots.

[*bengalfan74*]

(05-16-2019, 05:58 PM)wildcatnku24 Wrote: I predict that this will be a boom draft, but of course wouldn't say it with 100% confidence due to the nature of the draft itself (it's a gamble).   However, I really think that every pick did seem quite tactical by nature and you can see their plan by their actions as well as their words, which isn't always the case for our Bengals.  

Last year we were first in the AFC for the first quarter of the season.  We certainly haven't gotten worse based on talent, I'd argue, but instead have the potential to improve.  I think that's all you can ask for.

I believe it will end up a good one as well. It's just so hard to say for sure at this point, it usually takes a couple seasons in fact. I really think the Sample pick could end up being a real steal for this team.

[THE PISTONS]

It's a bit unfair to criticize Williams and say he fell for specific reasons. I'd say, he wasn't a QB and there were QB hungry teams. That's the only reason.

He had great production in a Pro Style offense against top competition. You can't ask for more than that. End of story. I might have taken him as high as the #3 or 4 pick if I was drafting.

On our other picks? It's hard to say. I think Pratt and maybe Davis will get opportunities to play here that they might not be given on a team with established LB's. That bodes well for them producing.

Sample could find himself with nice playing time as a rookie.

Finley? It's not like you'll get a star QB in the 4th Round. He's a guy that we can develop.

Wren? Who knows. He has potential.

The 2 RB's? They'll get time to develop and they have nice athletic qualities.

No team in the NFL knows for sure that their draft picks will be able to play or won't.

[XenoMorph]

(05-16-2019, 07:01 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It's a bit unfair to criticize Williams and say he fell for specific reasons. I'd say, he wasn't a QB and there were QB hungry teams. That's the only reason.

He had great production in a Pro Style offense against top competition. You can't ask for more than that. End of story. I might have taken him as high as the #3 or 4 pick if I was drafting.

Rookie wage scale changd the top of the draft....  Before you had to get a position that was worth the huge $$$$ value of those top ten contracts and generally only QB or LT maybe a DE fit that price tag... Now its not nearly the factor it was.

[THE PISTONS]

(05-16-2019, 07:03 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Rookie wage scale changd the top of the draft....  Before you had to get a position that was worth the huge $$$$ value of those top ten contracts and generally only QB or LT maybe a DE fit that price tag... Now its not nearly the factor it was.

Indeed.

I've thought about starting a thread over summer for us all to analyze the importance of each position in the modern NFL and rank them in terms of importance. I think it could spark some interesting dialogue.

[BengalsRocker]

If you want to call it "meh". It depends...

I'd call it middle of the road.

Some high points, low points, and average.

Nothing wrong with a balanced draft that fills out some spots and lands a few starters.

Definitely doesn't feel like a busted draft to me.

Just nothing exhilarating, but the blocking potential upgrade alone could spark our players on the offense side quite a bit.

Defense seems kinda lackluster by free agency and this draft.

That side of the ball I'm concerned about mostly because of LBers.

If the pass rush improves it will help. Fingers crossed.

[SunsetBengal]

Ross Tucker? Pfft! He didn't have the neck to survive in the NFL..

[JWW1971]

Big Lap said something in his post draft analysis which I found really interesting, what he said was -

This might not look like a standout draft for us but this year we have a huge advantage.
With our new coaching staff that came in, a lot came from College football and either coached a few of these guys or coached against them.
They have first hand knowlege of a lot of these guys and already know what they can do.

I think a lot of people and other teams are going to get a surprise by a lot of our draft guys

[kalibengal]

(05-16-2019, 10:19 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Ross Tucker?  Pfft!  He didn't have the neck to survive in the NFL..  

Ok, WTF is "MEH""???"   
other then that, the Wren pick is intriguing but honestly Im getting tired of the big potential  picks like Margus Hunt several yrs ago. 
Prediction:: Deshaun Davis will make some sort of impact....that footage of when he received the news he was drafted was priceless. The dude is going to BALL.  

[RASCAL]

it's as simple as this. Wait and see! I do it every year!!! HOPE FOR THE BEST!!!

[Bengalitis]

(05-16-2019, 05:33 PM)3wt Wrote:

1. Germaine Pratt - Liked by most but loved by none.  Former safety with good production but stiff hips and limited athleticism;  BUT superior production, excellent speed, demonstrated ability to cover and a great tackler.
2. Renell Wren - Inconsistent performance.  Raw.  BUT - Big time size/ length, great quickness, motivated (late) towards practice and film work, when he's performing up to his capabilities is dominant.  I read that as he's inconsistent because of lack of experience not motivation or brains.  Deemed very coachable.
   
   
   
   • • What in the world is "STIFF HIPS"?????!?!?!?
     • Did Renell start playing football in his freshman year of college??!?!?!!? What kind of lack of experience does he lack??????
       
3. Rodney Anderson - Talented and well sized running back with a significant history of injuries; BUT the film when he's healthy is excellent and has the potential to be the perfect backup to Mixon
   
   
   • • This is just horrific. A RB selected to be a backup. With this mentality we'll never win. We want a RB that CAN REPLACE Mixon or pay equal to him. What is this backup none sense. The back up should always be your star RB who will age and slow down with tear & wear in a couple of years.
       
       
       The rest of the analysis was pretty good. Price was believed to have been 1 of the 2 best Centers in the draft, he disappointed the first season and even by pre-season he was really struggling. Hopkins did a better job. Maybe time to scratch out Price as the future Center. Wasn't too impressed by Price at all.
       
       
     
     
     

[BURROWorBUST]

(05-16-2019, 07:07 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Indeed.

I've thought about starting a thread over summer for us all to analyze the importance of each position in the modern NFL and rank them in terms of importance. I think it could spark some interesting dialogue.

Good idea.

One easy metric is salary.

[NATI BENGALS]

Im leaning towards boom. But all we need is a solid. A bust stacked on top of our other recent bust drafts should be the end of Tobin.

We may have ended up with 2/5 of our starting OL. A Starting LB. And a TE who plays a ton. Add in A DT with big upside which is a nice change instead of the stuff we were picking up off the scrap heap last year. Driskel was hard to watch so ending that misery is huge. Just that there is solid that would be a well above average rookie class contribution i would think.

Then throw in the instant makeup for whiffing on Walton by doubling down on two guys i like better than Walton and the fact we are replacing a couple garbage Marvin Lewis favorites vrey and Nickerson at LB with a first team All SEC LB.. And it does look boomish

[*ochocincos*]

(05-16-2019, 05:33 PM)3wt Wrote: Ross Tucker called our draft "Meh";   Kiper & McShay graded our draft out at A-

So we have a boom or bust draft here:

1. Jonah Williams - Dropped because no one could certify he'd be a quality tackle and because of ordinary measurable and athleticism; BUT superior production against elite competition, superior intelligence, love of the game, superior technique and mental toughness
2. Drew Sample - Roundly criticized pick because of paltry production in the receiving game and the belief he'd be there as late as the 4th round; BUT film showed that he was frequently open, caught everything thrown to him, was the consensus best blocking TE in the 2019 class and would not have been there in the 3rd Round
3. Germaine Pratt - Liked by most but loved by none.  Former safety with good production but stiff hips and limited athleticism;  BUT superior production, excellent speed, demonstrated ability to cover and a great tackler.
4. Ryan Finley - Meh QB in this class.   Tucker calls him, "Dalton Lite".   Average to below average arm.  Inconsistent.  BUT - when he's on he's VERY accurate, has great intelligence and is a big time competitor.
5. Renell Wren - Inconsistent performance.  Raw.  BUT - Big time size/ length, great quickness, motivated (late) towards practice and film work, when he's performing up to his capabilities is dominant.  I read that as he's inconsistent because of lack of experience not motivation or brains.  Deemed very coachable.
6. Michael Jordan - Has poor techniques and sluggish feet and is prone to quick combination moves; BUT has great size, was smart enough to make the calls as center and is likely to grow into his size as he cleans up his technique
7. Trayveon Williams - Smaller back with limited power and limited vision;  BUT gained mentally and physically in his last season, has great production is an alpha player that sparks the rest of the team.
8. Deshaun Davis - Smaller linebacker with average to slow speed;  BUT is very smart, knows where to be, sheds well and gets there quicker than faster linebackers - and hits like a tank
9. Rodney Anderson - Talented and well sized running back with a significant history of injuries; BUT the film when he's healthy is excellent and has the potential to be the perfect backup to Mixon
10. Jordan Brown - Good sized corner who is perceived as not being physical and a poor tackler;  BUT has terrific size/ speed ratio, has really good ball skills and can "smother" underneath routes
    

It's the Kool-Aid, rose colored glasses and homer time of the year I realize.  But I think the draft has the potential to be excellent.  And I'm intrigued by the UDFA QB as well.   I particularly am excited about the first 3 picks and Wren, Jordan and Davis.  They have the potential to be game changers by the end of the season.  So I'm saying BOOM.

What say you?  Boom or bust?

I don't consider this draft "boom or bust," just Day 3.

Jonah Williams was the safest player in the draft if you wanted to get a good player. If anything, Williams becomes a great guard if he can't hang at tackle.
For as thrown off as I was with the selection of Sample in Rd 2, he should be a solid TE2 due to his blocking ability and high catch rate.
Germaine Pratt should also be a safe bet to be at least a solid starter. I liked what he did at NC St and I like his speed. When people talk about how they want a big safety to play LB, that's Pratt. He came into NC St as a FS and switched to LB.

I think the best pick on Day 3 was Trayveon Williams. I think he's going to be Gio's replacement by next year and will be a great complement/backup to Mixon.
Wren is the ultimate boom or bust, as he's little production but a lot of potential due to his size and athleticism. Anderson is boom or bust due to injuries.

I think the Bengals will get 3-4 key contributors from this draft (Jonah, Sample, Pratt, Trayveon), which is what's considered a solid draft nowadays. If Wren and/or Anderson hit, even better.

[*ochocincos*]

(05-17-2019, 02:32 AM)Shady Wrote: Good idea.

One easy metric is salary.

And that's why so many teams nowadays in the playoffs have starting QBs on rookie contracts.
HOU
KC
LAR
PHI
DAL
CHI

That's 50% of the teams last year that made the playoffs with starting QBs on rookie contracts. By not having to pay $20+ mill a year for QB, they can put that money toward other positions to make a better team overall.
Add in BAL, who started Lamar Jackson, but they were still paying the high price for Flacco. Now, they freed up that salary from Flacco. So that's more than 50% of the teams.
The teams who don't have starting QBs on rookie contracts have QBs who are all arguably in the Top 10 (Brady, Brees, Rivers, Luck, Wilson).

The other positions that are expensive for good players in FA are WR, CB, LT, and EDGE. It's good to find a good starter at these positions while on rookie contracts rather than having to pay the premium in FA for them. So it might actually help the Bengals if they fill in the other positions with veterans because those other positions will be cheaper overall.

[CJD]

Hmm...From the classic definition of boom or bust (it'll either be incredible or complete shit) I don't really think this draft fits that description in any way.

The high end: A franchise LT, a starting TE, a starting LB, a starting guard with a few athletic late rounders that may develop into spot starters.

The low end: A starting LT/RT, a back up/blocking TE/H-Back, 3rd down LB, a reserve guard with a few athletic late rounders that don't work out.

I think the John Ross draft was way more boom or bust than this one.
Ross, Mixon, Lawson, Malone AND a kicker? That was quite the boom or bust draft.

This one seems much more even keeled haha.