McCoy to bengals?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-25-2019, 11:06 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I agree that they're not a SB contender...and their QB seems 1 dimensional.

However, that franchise has won SB's in the past and seems to be a good organization...so chances are they will field a winner at some point soon.

They need to get a decent QB before the Ravens are back to being a contender.

The Stains need to win more than half their games before they become a contender.

We have a good QB and new coaches with a fresh energy going on here.

I don't think we are as far off from landing this guy as some think as long as the Ravens don't offer him an absurd amount...

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-25-2019, 08:42 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: I haven’t read he had a visit planned for Cincinnati. He will go to Baltimore Tuesday, then maybe swing by Cincy then, hard to tell. I think it would be nice to have him, but no huge ordeal if he doesn’t.

We are interested, think McCoy will keep his options open, smart thing to do.

[THE PISTONS]

(05-25-2019, 02:00 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: They need to get a decent QB before the Ravens are back to being a contender.

The Stains need to win more than half their games before they become a contender.

We have a good QB and new coaches with a fresh energy going on here.

I don't think we are as far off from landing this guy as some think as long as the Ravens don't offer him an absurd amount...

We're Bengals fans. We think our team is good obviously.

Players are going to look at 27+ years without a playoff win and Mike Brown still in charge as hindrances.

Look how hard of a time we had signing a DC. IF a Bill Belicheck or even the Steelers came calling, the guy comes.

It sucks. I know. And I agree with a lot of what you think about the Ravens and Browns.

But, look at the Browns from a non-Bengals perspective:

-After they got rid of Hue, they started winning.
-Mayfield looks good.
-They had the #2 offensive line in football. (Yeah they lost Zeitler but they had a drafted guy to replace him.)
-Chubb had a good rookie year and they added Hunt who was leading the AFC in rushing.
-They added Beckham.
-They have a lot of other young talent like Njoku that could still improve.
-They have Garret on the DLine and added Vernon.

Man if the Bengals did those things, fans would be going crazy.

[NKURyan]

(05-25-2019, 02:44 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We're Bengals fans. We think our team is good obviously.

Players are going to look at 27+ years without a playoff win and Mike Brown still in charge as hindrances.

Look how hard of a time we had signing a DC. IF a Bill Belicheck or even the Steelers came calling, the guy comes.

It sucks. I know. And I agree with a lot of what you think about the Ravens and Browns.

But, look at the Browns from a non-Bengals perspective:

-After they got rid of Hue, they started winning.
-Mayfield looks good.
-They had the #2 offensive line in football. (Yeah they lost Zeitler but they had a drafted guy to replace him.)
-Chubb had a good rookie year and they added Hunt who was leading the AFC in rushing.
-They added Beckham.
-They have a lot of other young talent like Njoku that could still improve.
-They have Garret on the DLine and added Vernon.

Man if the Bengals did those things, fans would be going crazy.

Just to play devil's advocate... because screw the Browns.
1) "After they got rid of Hue, they started winning."
Winning be a somewhat relative term as they still only went 5-3 over the last 8 games, all 5 wins were against bad teams (only had one win all of last season against a team with a winning record, and still haven't had a winning season in 13 years. You mention Mike Brown, and yeah he's not a great owner... but Mike Brown's not the one who had a nationally published article written about how inept he was last season, either.
2) "Mayfield looks good."
So did Josh Freeman his rookie year. Gerald McCoy would know (I'm assuming they played together?)
3) "Chubb had a good rookie year and they added Hunt who leading the AFC in rushing."
Hunt's also not playing for a good chunk of the season. Chubb's fine, but Mixon's better, and after Hunt got his ass cut Mixon DID lead the AFC in rushing.
4) "They added Beckham"
He's really good, but "OBJ" and "winning" do not exactly go hand in hand, and the one year they did make the playoffs he flaked out on his team. Can you count on him?
5) "They have a lot of young talent like Njoku that could still improve."
So do the Bengals - WJIII, Bates, and Lawson come to mind as potentially being on the verge of becoming very good-to-special players.
6) "They have Garrett on the DLine and added Vernon."
Garrett's a beast, but the Bengals have Atkins and Dunlap and they're not exactly slouches. Not even mentioning young guys like Lawson and Hubbard who've shown potential.


So I don't think it's a slam dunk, at the least. 

[kalibengal]

(05-23-2019, 08:26 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: It's a "hug move"?  You mean like Mike Brown extending some love to the fans, like each of us receiving a hug from Mike, himself??  

McCoy left Cleveland without a deal....A bit of a shock, not sure whos next but if its us they need to roll out red carpet. 

[SunsetBengal]

(05-25-2019, 09:14 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I read where his #1 factor in determining where to go is he wants to go to a contender.

I unfortunately doubt that he considers a team that hasn't won a playoff game in 27+ years in that category.

(05-25-2019, 03:42 PM)kalibengal Wrote: McCoy left Cleveland without a deal....A bit of a shock, not sure whos next but if its us they need to roll out red carpet. 

Well, I'm still not counting on anything.  However, after being typically sarcastic about the notion initially, the longer this goes on the more I start to think it could actually be a possibility.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-25-2019, 02:44 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We're Bengals fans. We think our team is good obviously.

Players are going to look at 27+ years without a playoff win and Mike Brown still in charge as hindrances.

Look how hard of a time we had signing a DC. IF a Bill Belicheck or even the Steelers came calling, the guy comes.

It sucks. I know. And I agree with a lot of what you think about the Ravens and Browns.

But, look at the Browns from a non-Bengals perspective:

-After they got rid of Hue, they started winning.
-Mayfield looks good.
-They had the #2 offensive line in football. (Yeah they lost Zeitler but they had a drafted guy to replace him.)
-Chubb had a good rookie year and they added Hunt who was leading the AFC in rushing.
-They added Beckham.
-They have a lot of other young talent like Njoku that could still improve.
-They have Garret on the DLine and added Vernon.

Man if the Bengals did those things, fans would be going crazy.

(05-25-2019, 03:04 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Just to play devil's advocate... because screw the Browns.
1) "After they got rid of Hue, they started winning."
Winning be a somewhat relative term as they still only went 5-3 over the last 8 games, all 5 wins were against bad teams (only had one win all of last season against a team with a winning record, and still haven't had a winning season in 13 years. You mention Mike Brown, and yeah he's not a great owner... but Mike Brown's not the one who had a nationally published article written about how inept he was last season, either.
2) "Mayfield looks good."
So did Josh Freeman his rookie year. Gerald McCoy would know (I'm assuming they played together?)
3) "Chubb had a good rookie year and they added Hunt who leading the AFC in rushing."
Hunt's also not playing for a good chunk of the season. Chubb's fine, but Mixon's better, and after Hunt got his ass cut Mixon DID lead the AFC in rushing.
4) "They added Beckham"
He's really good, but "OBJ" and "winning" do not exactly go hand in hand, and the one year they did make the playoffs he flaked out on his team. Can you count on him?
5) "They have a lot of young talent like Njoku that could still improve."
So do the Bengals - WJIII, Bates, and Lawson come to mind as potentially being on the verge of becoming very good-to-special players.
6) "They have Garrett on the DLine and added Vernon."
Garrett's a beast, but the Bengals have Atkins and Dunlap and they're not exactly slouches. Not even mentioning young guys like Lawson and Hubbard who've shown potential.


So I don't think it's a slam dunk, at the least. 

I think Ryan summed up my thoughts pretty damn well.

The Stains need to start winning against good teams before i think they are anything more than flush it down material. Mayfield and OBJ seems like a recipe for disaster if they start losing, they are really being hyped this Offseason, i think they are ripe for implosion.

It is the Stains after all. Screw'em.

And yeah, our guy DID lead the AFC in rushing last season...

[HarleyDog]

(05-25-2019, 03:57 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Well, I'm still not counting on anything.  However, after being typically sarcastic about the notion initially, the longer this goes on the more I start to think it could actually be a possibility.

Possibility, yes. Probable, not sure? He doesn’t seem to have any off field issues I was able to find. ZT is big on that. He stood during the national anthem, mike Brown is big on that. If he wants to come here, we should offer him a deal. Not 13 mil, but a respectable deal. So I think I’m on the same boat as long as we can still offer AJ and Boyd a good enough deal to keep them here.

We will see but I see this dragging out till probably Thursday or Friday before we know where he goes.

[SunsetBengal]

(05-25-2019, 09:14 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I read where his #1 factor in determining where to go is he wants to go to a contender.

I unfortunately doubt that he considers a team that hasn't won a playoff game in 27+ years in that category.

(05-25-2019, 04:38 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Possibility, yes. Probable, not sure? He doesn’t seem to have any off field issues I was able to find. ZT is big on that. He stood during the national anthem, mike Brown is big on that. If he wants to come here, we should offer him a deal. Not 13 mil, but a respectable deal. So I think I’m on the same boat as long as we can still offer AJ and Boyd a good enough deal to keep them here.

We will see but I see this dragging out till probably Thursday or Friday before we know where he goes.

You're probably right on that.  Rarely does anything really good happen in rapid fashion, when it comes to Bengals management actions.  However, a first time would sure be nice!  

[HarleyDog]

(05-25-2019, 04:53 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You're probably right on that.  Rarely does anything really good happen in rapid fashion, when it comes to Bengals management actions.  However, a first time would sure be nice!  

Well, I only say that because he’s supposed to meet with the Ravens Tuesday. Maybe he meets with us Wednesday, then makes a decision Thursday or Friday after meeting or speaking with his agent and weighing the options.

[NKURyan]

(05-25-2019, 05:01 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Well, I only say that because he’s supposed to meet with the Ravens Tuesday. Maybe he meets with us Wednesday, then makes a decision Thursday or Friday after meeting or speaking with his agent and weighing the options.

I agree and tend to think the longer this goes, the better off our chances might be.

[XsandOs]

(05-25-2019, 05:01 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Well, I only say that because he’s supposed to meet with the Ravens Tuesday. Maybe he meets with us Wednesday, then makes a decision Thursday or Friday after meeting or speaking with his agent and weighing the options.

He has used every connection (ex coaches, Oklahoma players, etc) to generate attention and interest.

The propaganda regarding supposed interest from 10 Teams and $11 mil offer(s) is nothing more than propaganda.

He will ultimately take the most guaranteed money.

If he comes to us, given that we have a better 3 tech already here, neither he nor us will get max value.

So for a player in decline, I don't see the Bengals offering a whole lot of upfront or guaranteed money.

[HarleyDog]

(05-25-2019, 05:16 PM)XsandOs Wrote: He has used every connection (ex coaches, Oklahoma players, etc) to generate attention and interest.

The propaganda regarding supposed interest from 10 Teams and $11 mil offer(s) is nothing more than propaganda.

He will ultimately take the most guaranteed money.

If he comes to us, given that we have a better 3 tech already here, neither he nor us will get max value.

So for a player in decline, I don't see the Bengals offering a whole lot of upfront or guaranteed money.

I’m kinda leaning that way. Bruce Arians also said his play has declined. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001024932/article/report-gerald-mccoy-misses-first-voluntary-workout

Still a good player, but if a team goes overboard with a contract, it will be a gamble nonetheless.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-25-2019, 05:01 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Well, I only say that because he’s supposed to meet with the Ravens Tuesday. Maybe he meets with us Wednesday, then makes a decision Thursday or Friday after meeting or speaking with his agent and weighing the options.

Sounds about right Harley.

(05-25-2019, 05:16 PM)XsandOs Wrote: He has used every connection (ex coaches, Oklahoma players, etc) to generate attention and interest.

The propaganda regarding supposed interest from 10 Teams and $11 mil offer(s) is nothing more than propaganda.

He will ultimately take the most guaranteed money.

If he comes to us, given that we have a better 3 tech already here, neither he nor us will get max value.

So for a player in decline, I don't see the Bengals offering a whole lot of upfront or guaranteed money.

We will see, but i have to agree.

(05-25-2019, 05:26 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I’m kinda leaning that way. Bruce Arians also said his play has declined. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001024932/article/report-gerald-mccoy-misses-first-voluntary-workout

Still a good player, but if a team goes overboard with a contract, it will be a gamble nonetheless.

Yeah, i am good either way, would rather have him here but if it costs us Boyd or AJ i don't like it at all.

[XsandOs]

(05-25-2019, 05:26 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I’m kinda leaning that way. Bruce Arians also said his play has declined. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001024932/article/report-gerald-mccoy-misses-first-voluntary-workout

Still a good player, but if a team goes overboard with a contract, it will be a gamble nonetheless.

(05-25-2019, 05:31 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Sounds about right Harley.


We will see, but i have to agree.


Yeah, i am good either way, would rather have him here but if it costs us Boyd or AJ i don't like it at all.

I am with you guys.

Great luxury pickup, if at the right price AND he can check his ego a bit.

Geno is our guy here. If we show more 3-4 looks, McCoy would be a nice fit as an end.

He could also obviously be in on passing downs as DT.

Doesn't have the tools for RDE, but could spell Dunlap on rotation.

[SunsetBengal]

(05-25-2019, 05:26 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I’m kinda leaning that way. Bruce Arians also said his play has declined. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001024932/article/report-gerald-mccoy-misses-first-voluntary-workout

Still a good player, but if a team goes overboard with a contract, it will be a gamble nonetheless.

What type of numbers would you envision for a player of McCoy's caliber and experience level?  I don't really have any insight into the Browns' cap situation, but obviously they didn't throw him the pen and checkbook, otherwise he would be a Brown today.  Seeing how the Buc's decided not to cover his $13M this season, my gut would say to start the negotiations at half that amount and work in a signing bonus bonus and some performance escalators to top out South of $9M. 

 

(05-25-2019, 05:31 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Sounds about right Harley.


We will see, but i have to agree.


Yeah, i am good either way, would rather have him here but if it costs us Boyd or AJ i don't like it at all.

I agree with that sentiment, completely.  Also, seeing how they didn't take any WRs in the draft, they must plan on retaining them.

(05-25-2019, 05:40 PM)XsandOs Wrote: I am with you guys.

Great luxury pickup, if at the right price AND he can check his ego a bit.

Geno is our guy here. If we show more 3-4 looks, McCoy would be a nice fit as an end.

He could also obviously be in on passing downs as DT.

Doesn't have the tools for RDE, but could spell Dunlap on rotation.

His abilities would certainly open up some interesting possibilities for the defense.

https://www.bucsnation.com/2019/1/15/18180036/bang-for-tampa-bay-buccaneers-gerald-mccoy-2019

This article gives a lot of good perspective and insight into McCoy, and how he became expendable to Tampa.


This quote is from toward the end of the article, I suggest reading it in it's entirety.  (about a 2-3 minute read)

Quote:Stats don’t tell the whole story. They never have. What they offer is just one lens to view a multi-layered picture through.
The value of a player extends beyond the field of play. Which is why it was news when the team didn’t vote McCoy in as a captain for the 2018 season.

Prior to this season, McCoy had been a captain on the team for six straight years. Every year since 2012.
McCoy played it off. He had to. But if you don’t believe it wounded his ego just a bit, I doubt you’ve ever been in a locker room.

In January of 2018, McCoy was a Pro Bowler and a Pro Bowl captain at that. One year later, he’s not a Pro Bowler, not a captain on any team, and is on the lips of just about every Bucs fan, media member or casual observer wondering if and how the team might open up some more cap space for 2019.

[XsandOs]

(05-25-2019, 06:10 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: What type of numbers would you envision for a player of McCoy's caliber and experience level?  I don't really have any insight into the Browns' cap situation, but obviously they didn't throw him the pen and checkbook, otherwise he would be a Brown today.  Seeing how the Buc's decided not to cover his $13M this season, my gut would say to start the negotiations at half that amount and work in a signing bonus bonus and some performance escalators to top out South of $9M. 

 

I agree with that sentiment, completely.  Also, seeing how they didn't take any WRs in the draft, they must plan on retaining them.



His abilities would certainly open up some interesting possibilities for the defense.

https://www.bucsnation.com/2019/1/15/18180036/bang-for-tampa-bay-buccaneers-gerald-mccoy-2019

This article gives a lot of good perspective and insight into McCoy, and how he became expendable to Tampa.


This quote is from toward the end of the article, I suggest reading it in it's entirety.  (about a 2-3 minute read)

Thank you Sunset.

Although I agree that $13M is high for the production, but it saddens me to see this side of the propaganda as well.

They started the media warfare against him in January.

Let's hope he finds a home either with us at reasonable price, or far away from us.

[SunsetBengal]

(05-25-2019, 07:07 PM)XsandOs Wrote: Thank you Sunset.

Although I agree that $13M is high for the production, but it saddens me to see this side of the propaganda as well.

They started the media warfare against him in January.

Let's hope he finds a home either with us at reasonable price, or far away from us.

What I think that we're seeing here, is Tampa Bay is in the midst of a defensive reboot.  6 of their 7 draft picks were defensive players.  They got virtually equal production from Rookie Vita Vea (yeah, I wanted him on the Bengals) in about half the snaps, for about 1/5 the cost.

Sure, it's sad to see a proud, accomplished veteran being put out to pasture by the team he spent his best years with, but that's economics in the NFL.  If the Bengals can pick him up for a manageable cost, maybe a change of scenery picks him back up?  I don't know, but he seems to have a decent relationship with Atkins and Dunlap, so I think the chemistry would be good.

[NATI BENGALS]

I wonder how his relationship was with MJ93. Maybe he put in the good word for us and thats the only reason we've been mentioned

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-25-2019, 08:12 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: What I think that we're seeing here, is Tampa Bay is in the midst of a defensive reboot.  6 of their 7 draft picks were defensive players.  They got virtually equal production from Rookie Vita Vea (yeah, I wanted him on the Bengals) in about half the snaps, for about 1/5 the cost.

Sure, it's sad to see a proud, accomplished veteran being put out to pasture by the team he spent his best years with, but that's economics in the NFL.  If the Bengals can pick him up for a manageable cost, maybe a change of scenery picks him back up?  I don't know, but he seems to have a decent relationship with Atkins and Dunlap, so I think the chemistry would be good.

Wanted Vea too, lot of great points here Sunset.

(05-25-2019, 09:35 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I wonder how his relationship was with MJ93. Maybe he put in the good word for us and thats the only reason we've been mentioned

Maybe... but i doubt that is the only reason.

Maybe some players knew the Bengals just needed a coaching change, we pretty much have always had the talent.