AJ on Accountability

[NKURyan]

(05-26-2019, 09:18 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: If you don't see the issue if AJ is held less accountable in the film room that causes major team issues, not even worth discussing. Players who are worse get cut and lose their job. But, the guy you pay big bucks, you bet they should make sure he is a leader on and off the field (meetings and film).

I think AJ would tell you the same.

You're right - it's only accountability if you hold all players accountable to the same standards.

And I agree, AJ doesn't strike me as the type of person who would be upset by it at all.

[McC]

(05-26-2019, 09:04 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: AJ is a class act and understands accountability. So, my comment was not a knock on AJ, a compliment he understands you don't blame others first, first you look into the mirror. Point was why did OP jump to AJ was thinking of others, he very well may have been thinking of himself. As for perfection, where did I say I expected any player to be perfect. 

I didn't and don't, but I do expect a ton more production and less mental errors from a great WR than say a QB who has 10 times then mental prep and expertise than any position player on offense of defense. Yet, AD gets trashed all the time, some warranted and some because of others including AJ.

AJ holds himself to such a high standard that he doesn't need someone holding him accountable.  He's already got that covered.  The great ones always do.

[fredtoast]

Again, I'd like to know what you guys call "holding players accountable".

I watch a lot of foot ball coaches and I don't here any of them trashing their own players.  And I certainly don't see them benching starters every time they mess up.

The stuff AJ is probably talking about is the type of stuff one of us ever see.  Players late for meetings or slacking in practice.  And most of the coach's "accountability" will also be stuff none of us see like requiring things be repeated until done properly, or physical punishment, or embarrassment in video sessions.  I just am not impressed with the sideline hysteria during a game.  I don't think screaming at a grown man is really an effective technique.

Maybe my position is based on my specific life experience.  In high school I had a bunch of dumb ass coaches.  My last two seasons we only won 3 games.  However in college I played for a coach Ken Sparks who went to 8 national championship games, won 5, and still holds the record for most career wins in Division II.  He had a bunch of very smart assistant coaches who knew how to win games, but they did not yell and scream as much as my stupid high school coaches.

Do you guys really expect Taylor to come out trashing the players or benching starters from week to week?

[NKURyan]

(05-27-2019, 02:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Again, I'd like to know what you guys call "holding players accountable".

I watch a lot of foot ball coaches and I don't here any of them trashing their own players.  And I certainly don't see them benching starters every time they mess up.

The stuff AJ is probably talking about is the type of stuff one of us ever see.  Players late for meetings or slacking in practice.  And most of the coach's "accountability" will also be stuff none of us see like requiring things be repeated until done properly, or physical punishment, or embarrassment in video sessions.  I just am not impressed with the sideline hysteria during a game.  I don't think screaming at a grown man is really an effective technique.

Maybe my position is based on my specific life experience.  In high school I had a bunch of dumb ass coaches.  My last two seasons we only won 3 games.  However in college I played for a coach Ken Sparks who went to 8 national championship games, won 5, and still holds the record for most career wins in Division II.  He had a bunch of very smart assistant coaches who knew how to win games, but they did not yell and scream as much as my stupid high school coaches.

Do you guys really expect Taylor to come out trashing the players or benching starters from week to week?

Accountability doesn't mean trashing the players, or benching starters, or screaming at players on the sideline - it means holding everyone to the same high standards. I'd like to know what *you* consider "holding players accountable" if that's not it.

You are right in that AJ probably is talking about the stuff none of us will ever see, but who cares? Evidently that side of things has changed since ZT arrived, and I think that's a positive. Apparently that stuff has been missing...

[JSR18]

(05-27-2019, 02:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Again, I'd like to know what you guys call "holding players accountable".

I watch a lot of foot ball coaches and I don't here any of them trashing their own players.  And I certainly don't see them benching starters every time they mess up.

The stuff AJ is probably talking about is the type of stuff one of us ever see.  Players late for meetings or slacking in practice.  And most of the coach's "accountability" will also be stuff none of us see like requiring things be repeated until done properly, or physical punishment, or embarrassment in video sessions.  I just am not impressed with the sideline hysteria during a game.  I don't think screaming at a grown man is really an effective technique.

Maybe my position is based on my specific life experience.  In high school I had a bunch of dumb ass coaches.  My last two seasons we only won 3 games.  However in college I played for a coach Ken Sparks who went to 8 national championship games, won 5, and still holds the record for most career wins in Division II.  He had a bunch of very smart assistant coaches who knew how to win games, but they did not yell and scream as much as my stupid high school coaches.

Do you guys really expect Taylor to come out trashing the players or benching starters from week to week?

I understand what you're saying. We may have to agree to disagree to a certain extent. We've seen Merv for 16 yrs standing on the sidelines not saying or doing anything. That obviously didn't work.

Now I'm not advocating screaming at people after every play like your "stupid high school coaches". However, When a glaring error is made, a few loud, well placed adult words into the offender's facemask (and/or benching for a play or 2) lets that player and all others know that you care about performances and you mean what was said in meetings, practices etc.

Also, yelling at or getting in a referees face 1 or twice a game could/should have the same effect as a baseball mgr. getting tossed. It very well could fire the whole team up because they see a head coach who has their backs...

[*bengalfan74*]

(05-27-2019, 02:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Again, I'd like to know what you guys call "holding players accountable".

I watch a lot of foot ball coaches and I don't here any of them trashing their own players.  And I certainly don't see them benching starters every time they mess up.

The stuff AJ is probably talking about is the type of stuff one of us ever see.  Players late for meetings or slacking in practice.  And most of the coach's "accountability" will also be stuff none of us see like requiring things be repeated until done properly, or physical punishment, or embarrassment in video sessions.  I just am not impressed with the sideline hysteria during a game.  I don't think screaming at a grown man is really an effective technique.

Maybe my position is based on my specific life experience.  In high school I had a bunch of dumb ass coaches.  My last two seasons we only won 3 games.  However in college I played for a coach Ken Sparks who went to 8 national championship games, won 5, and still holds the record for most career wins in Division II.  He had a bunch of very smart assistant coaches who knew how to win games, but they did not yell and scream as much as my stupid high school coaches.

Do you guys really expect Taylor to come out trashing the players or benching starters from week to week?

Fred, why do you always try to turn any accountability/ML thread into screaming on the sideline ?

It's so much more than just that.

[McC]

(05-27-2019, 02:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Again, I'd like to know what you guys call "holding players accountable".

I watch a lot of foot ball coaches and I don't here any of them trashing their own players.  And I certainly don't see them benching starters every time they mess up.

The stuff AJ is probably talking about is the type of stuff one of us ever see.  Players late for meetings or slacking in practice.  And most of the coach's "accountability" will also be stuff none of us see like requiring things be repeated until done properly, or physical punishment, or embarrassment in video sessions.  I just am not impressed with the sideline hysteria during a game.  I don't think screaming at a grown man is really an effective technique.

Maybe my position is based on my specific life experience.  In high school I had a bunch of dumb ass coaches.  My last two seasons we only won 3 games.  However in college I played for a coach Ken Sparks who went to 8 national championship games, won 5, and still holds the record for most career wins in Division II.  He had a bunch of very smart assistant coaches who knew how to win games, but they did not yell and scream as much as my stupid high school coaches.

Do you guys really expect Taylor to come out trashing the players or benching starters from week to week?

A guy has to at the very least know that benching for poor play is on the table.   Accountability is is answering for what you do.

[NKURyan]

(05-27-2019, 09:23 PM)McC Wrote: A guy has to at the very least know that benching for poor play is on the table.   Accountability is is answering for what you do.

Accountability is EVERY player answering for what they do. Which I think you know, but somebody's just going to come back and say "BUT JOHN ROSS"...

[fredtoast]

(05-27-2019, 09:17 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Fred, why do you always try to turn any accountability/ML thread into screaming on the sideline ?

It's so much more than just that.

All i want to know is what ypu fans would do different from Marvin. Everyone speaks in vague terms about holding players accountable but i don't know what they would do. It seems that they want the coach to trash the players to the media or bench them. Since i dont see many other NFL coaches doing this i don't know why all the hate for marvin.

[Catmandude123]

(05-28-2019, 11:51 AM)fredtoast Wrote:  i don't know why all the hate for marvin.

I see it as a dysfunctional marriage. When you hang on too long the problems fester into a hateful relationship. Most fans don't really hate Marvin but are disappointed that the FO waited so long to make a change. Everyone in the league knew for years he had to go but the stubborn FO stood pat until the fans were in total revolt. It seems to me the hatred is projected on Marvin but what the fans truly hate is our pitiful excuse of a FO.

[depthchart]

(05-26-2019, 11:00 AM)pally Wrote: Quote: "I think the biggest thing for us, we have two team rules ... be on time and protect the team," Green said. "I think that's the biggest thing, the two rules for us and holding everybody accountable, holding everybody to a high standard. I think that's the biggest change from Coach Lewis. Everybody's held accountable, everybody's held to that high standard."

AJ is definitely implying that Marvin's standard was not as high as Zac's appears to be to AJ.

AJ called it "the biggest change from Coach Lewis". The two rules & holding everyone to that "high standard".

Since being "on time" was one of the rules; could AJ be implying that Marvin allowed a lower "standard" where players/Coaches could be late & not face consequences for it ?

Does AJ think Marvin allowed players or even Coaches/Assistants to do things that did not "protect the team" ?

It seems clear that AJ thinks Zac is setting a higher "standard" than Marvin did but AJ doesn't go into details of what that means exactly. Just a few possible hints.

[SunsetBengal]

(05-28-2019, 11:51 AM)fredtoast Wrote:
All i want to know is what ypu fans would do different from Marvin. Everyone speaks in vague terms about holding players accountable but i don't know what they would do. It seems that they want the coach to trash the players to the media or bench them. Since i dont see many other NFL coaches doing this i don't know why all the hate for marvin.

Accountability would have been sitting down with Mike Brown, after any of the numerous and widely publicized on and off the field incidents involving Vontaze Burfict and Adam Jones, and saying "Mr. Brown, for the good of the team, we really need to move these guys to another franchise".  How can a team demand discipline and accountability from the rest of it's players, when the top two offenders were constantly given a pass and put back into action, at the first available moment? 

[Pat5775]

(05-28-2019, 01:13 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Accountability would have been sitting down with Mike Brown, after any of the numerous and widely publicized on and off the field incidents involving Vontaze Burfict and Adam Jones, and saying "Mr. Brown, for the good of the team, we really need to move these guys to another franchise".  How can a team demand discipline and accountability from the rest of it's players, when the top two offenders were constantly given a pass and put back into action, at the first available moment? 

I’m pretty sure Marvin wanted those two around just as much, if not more, than Mike. Just based on previous comments from the players and Marvin himself. It is possible that Mike wanted Pac-Man more than Marv, but I doubt very much Marv was against keeping Pac-Man around.

[Aquapod770]

Probably the most encouraging news from the new staff. It was painfully obvious that the previous staff didn't hold anyone accountable. Even though some posters would disagree.

[NKURyan]

(05-28-2019, 02:53 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: I’m pretty sure Marvin wanted those two around just as much, if not more, than Mike. Just based on previous comments from the players and Marvin himself. It is possible that Mike wanted Pac-Man more than Marv, but I doubt very much Marv was against keeping Pac-Man around.

That's his point. He's saying that Marvin didn't do that, thus Marvin's teams lacked accountability for their actions.

[THE PISTONS]

I do know that if you can get guys to practice hard and prepare hard and focus every single day that you can really improve a team.

[Luvnit2]

(05-28-2019, 02:53 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: I’m pretty sure Marvin wanted those two around just as much, if not more, than Mike. Just based on previous comments from the players and Marvin himself. It is possible that Mike wanted Pac-Man more than Marv, but I doubt very much Marv was against keeping Pac-Man around.

Accountability is a lot harder when each of us are put into position to lower the boom. I have hundreds of employees, yes I know the importance of accountability, but this is the real world so have I and do I give some 2nd and 3rd chances versus firing them? Yes, I do because I know them, in many cases I know their spouses or significant others, their kids and so on so tough to remove their income and benefits.

In most cases, the extra chances do not work out and I know it, but I still do it because I am a human being who cares about people. Yes, the rest of my people then think they may have a free pass. It is tougher to make these calls than some realize.

[NKURyan]

(05-28-2019, 06:20 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Accountability is a lot harder when each of us are put into position to lower the boom. I have hundreds of employees, yes I know the importance of accountability, but this is the real world so have I and do I give some 2nd and 3rd chances versus firing them? Yes, I do because I know them, in many cases I know their spouses or significant others, their kids and so on so tough to remove their income and benefits.

In most cases, the extra chances do not work out and I know it, but I still do it because I am a human being who cares about people. Yes, the rest of my people then think they may have a free pass. It is tougher to make these calls than some realize.

I think that's admirable. Accountability comes into play if you give some people a 2nd chance while denying it towards others.

As a teacher, if I write up a troublemaking student every time he's late to class, but the one time one of my best students shows up late I don't do anything, that's a lack of accountability - some get away with more than others. That was what Marvin was doing, IMO.

[SladeX]

(05-27-2019, 02:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Again, I'd like to know what you guys call "holding players accountable".

I watch a lot of foot ball coaches and I don't here any of them trashing their own players.  And I certainly don't see them benching starters every time they mess up.

The stuff AJ is probably talking about is the type of stuff one of us ever see.  Players late for meetings or slacking in practice.  And most of the coach's "accountability" will also be stuff none of us see like requiring things be repeated until done properly, or physical punishment, or embarrassment in video sessions.  I just am not impressed with the sideline hysteria during a game.  I don't think screaming at a grown man is really an effective technique.

Maybe my position is based on my specific life experience.  In high school I had a bunch of dumb ass coaches.  My last two seasons we only won 3 games.  However in college I played for a coach Ken Sparks who went to 8 national championship games, won 5, and still holds the record for most career wins in Division II.  He had a bunch of very smart assistant coaches who knew how to win games, but they did not yell and scream as much as my stupid high school coaches.

Do you guys really expect Taylor to come out trashing the players or benching starters from week to week?

In the context of this statement by AJ, what i call accountable doesn't matter. It's about what AJ calls it! He says it's present now, was lacking before, and he's happy with the change. As far as specific names from previous regime who weren't being held accountable, he seems quite circumspect. It's been mentioned before that he could well be including himself as one who needs more of this as well, but we'll never know.
Not all coaches/bosses subscribe to the everyone held to the same high standard approach. Parcells comes to mind, and he was pretty effective... . I would say a new HC would need to though.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-26-2019, 11:00 AM)pally Wrote: Katherine Terrell article on Zac contained these gems

Nothing says how bad the atmosphere in the locker room had gotten more than the shade AJ threw at Marvin




http://www.espn.com/blog/cincinnati-bengals/post/_/id/31286/bengals-zac-taylor-is-young-but-confident-to-do-things-his-way

I think this just shows that lack of communication can be one of the biggest mistakes in pretty much ever facet of life.

Zac Taylor's one shining compliment everyone gives him is he is a great communicator.

Love hearing this from AJ.