The Biggest Bust in Bengals History?

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(05-29-2019, 10:26 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Pains me to say, but: Archie Griffin

Not even in the top 25. He was a later 1st round pick and had a few good seasons. Most thought he would only be average at best in the NFL; he was really over drafted but not a bust.

[THE PISTONS]

Akili is the biggest.

Carter/Pollack from injury perspectives. Carter as higher because he was the #1 pick.

Klingler goes on this list somewhere.

[sandwedge]

Akili Smith, hands down. I gotta wonder though if they even interviewed him, maybe they didn't do that back then. Guy is dumber than a box of hammers. that isn't a joke either, unfortunately.

[BengalChris]

(05-29-2019, 10:19 AM)shanebo Wrote: Agree that it's gotta be Akili.  Although I must admit that I was fooled by him too -- I was certain that he was the next best thing after Couch, and a sure-fire HOFer.  I remember cheering when the Eagles took McNabb and left him on the board for us.  Several experts agreed, as I recall a few of them saying during the draft that he was the best in a "historic, '83-level" QB class.  I thought we had our Elway.  Even now, every year around draft time, I go to YouTube and watch Akili's Oregon highlight reels -- which are freaking awesome, BTW -- and just shake my head.  Kid had so much athletic talent, but just couldn't wrap his head around a NFL playbook ...

As an aside, I think too much is made of the fact that we were offered "the Saints' entire draft" but turned it down for Akili.  Have you ever taken a look at who was actually drafted with those Saints' picks?  Apart from Arrington, who had a handful of good years (but was kind of an injury bust himself), they all sucked balls.  No reason to think we would have done any better with those picks:  

1999 first round pick (12th overall, later traded to Chicago, used to select Cade McNown)
1999 third round pick (71st overall, later traded to Chicago, used to select D'Wayne Bates)
1999 fourth round pick (107th overall, used to select Nate Stimson)
1999 fifth round pick (144th overall, later traded to Chicago, used to select Khari Samuel)
1999 sixth round pick (179th overall, later traded to Denver, used to select Desmond Clark)
1999 seventh round pick (218th overall, later traded to Denver, used to select Billy Miller)
2000 first round pick (2nd overall, used to select LaVar Arrington)
2000 third round pick (64th overall, used to select Lloyd Harrison)

Side note - Washington traded 12 and 71 to move up and select HOF'er Champ Bailey, but I guarantee we would have stood pat and picked McNown.

Just because Washington made bad choices with those picks doesn't mean everyone would have. Of course, Mike Brown probably would have. In the second round he selected CB Charles Fisher with the 2nd pick and that guy only played in 1 game.

Mike Brown's utter baffoonery was in full bloom. It wasn't until we got Marvin Lewis that we saw some sanity in the draft choices.

[fredtoast]

Easy.

LB Ricky Hunley. #7 pick in the first round of the '84 draft and never polayed a single down for the Bengals.

That '84 draft was epic. We also had the #16 pick in the first round and used it on DE Pete Koch who played only one season with the Bengals and did not start a single game or record a single sack.

[Whatever]

(05-29-2019, 10:58 AM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: Not even in the top 25. He was a later 1st round pick and had a few good seasons. Most thought he would only be average at best in the NFL; he was really over drafted but not a bust.

He's easily in the top 10.  688 yards was his career high for rushing yards despite being a 4 year starter. and he only scored 13 TD's in his career.  By comparison, Ki-Jana Carter scored 21 career TD's despite only starting one year.

[impactplaya]

(05-29-2019, 12:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Easy.

LB Ricky Hunley.  #7 pick in the first round of the '84 draft and  never polayed a single down for the Bengals.

That '84 draft was epic.  We also had the #16 pick in the first round and used it on DE Pete Koch who played only one season with the Bengals and did not start a single game or record a single sack.

I think a QB that fails such as the magnatude of Smith really
sets the franchise back.
how many QBs did the team go tbrough before landing Palmer?
Kitna,Mitchell.
No doubt that 84 Draft was a epic failure.
but 4 years later the Bengals were in the Super Bowl.
A LB or DE wont make or break a franchise if you miss on that position

[impactplaya]

(05-29-2019, 12:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Easy.

LB Ricky Hunley.  #7 pick in the first round of the '84 draft and  never polayed a single down for the Bengals.

That '84 draft was epic.  We also had the #16 pick in the first round and used it on DE Pete Koch who played only one season with the Bengals and did not start a single game or record a single sack.

oh yeah they drafted Esaison that year and oline man that started on that SB team.

[ezekiel23]

Akili Smith.Ross could potentially be in the top 5 as far as I’m concerned,depending on how he does this coming season.

[THE PISTONS]

(05-29-2019, 12:51 PM)impactplaya Wrote: I think a QB that fails such as the magnatude of Smith really
sets the franchise back.
how many QBs did the team go tbrough before landing Palmer?
Kitna,Mitchell.
No doubt that 84 Draft was a epic failure.
but 4 years later the Bengals were in the Super Bowl.
A LB or DE wont make or break a franchise if you miss on that position

Back then when the salaries weren't predetermined...man did we have A LOT of holdouts too.

[KillerGoose]

The Akili Smith debacle set the franchise back very heavily when you consider the extra draft capital Cincinnati would’ve had with all of those draft picks. Plus, he wasn’t just god awful. Smith for me, hands down.

[THE PISTONS]

I won't say he's a bust...but Peter Warrick was a disappointment.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

Akili Smith would easily be the biggest bust on a whole number of teams, let alone the Bengals; he's definitely it and that's NOT including the picks we missed out on.

After him, Fred's '84 draft is on point, Verser is up there and I still would put them above Klingler.

Poor Dave, he was thrust into a shitty situation, with arguably the worst oline in the league, with his only weapons being Tony McGee and Carl Pickens (albeit his first year as a starter). Jeff Query surprised, but who here even knows who Jeff Query is?

Harold Green had his epically bad year (2.7 YPC) and Klingler clearly didn't have the mental fortitude to rise above all this and his career was over after that '93 season.

Put in a better situation, he probably does a lot better than he did here, thus I wouldn't consider him an all-time bust.

Plus, his numbers are no Akili Smith.

[THE PISTONS]

Biggest bust in Bengals History. Easy:



Munoz HOF Bust!

[Shake n Blake]

(05-29-2019, 11:53 AM)BengalChris Wrote: Just because Washington made bad choices with those picks doesn't mean everyone would have. Of course, Mike Brown probably would have. In the second round he selected CB Charles Fisher with the 2nd pick and that guy only played in 1 game.

Mike Brown's utter baffoonery was in full bloom. It wasn't until we got Marvin Lewis that we saw some sanity in the draft choices.

Exactly.

I have to correct you on Marv though. We started having good drafts after hiring Tobin. The 2001 draft is probably the best in team history. Justin Smith, Chad Johnson, Rudi Johnson, TJ Houshmandzadeh.

(05-29-2019, 12:51 PM)impactplaya Wrote: I think a QB that fails such as the magnatude of Smith really
sets the franchise back.
how many QBs did the team go tbrough before landing Palmer?
Kitna,Mitchell.
No doubt that 84 Draft was a epic failure.
but 4 years later the Bengals were in the Super Bowl.
A LB or DE wont make or break a franchise if you miss on that position

It does. We had to pay Akili franchise QB money. Also, I'd rather take a DE who doesn't play over an all-time bad QB who does play and causes us to lose.

(05-29-2019, 01:36 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Akili Smith would easily be the biggest bust on a whole number of teams, let alone the Bengals; he's definitely it and that's NOT including the picks we missed out on.

After him, Fred's '84 draft is on point, Verser is up there and I still would put them above Klingler.

Poor Dave, he was thrust into a shitty situation, with arguably the worst oline in the league, with his only weapons being Tony McGee and Carl Pickens (albeit his first year as a starter). Jeff Query surprised, but who here even knows who Jeff Query is?

Harold Green had his epically bad year (2.7 YPC) and Klingler clearly didn't have the mental fortitude to rise above all this and his career was over after that '93 season.

Put in a better situation, he probably does a lot better than he did here, thus I wouldn't consider him an all-time bust.

Plus, his numbers are no Akili Smith.

Klingler in '93: 55.4% completion rate
Akili in 2000: 44.2% completion rate

Klingler in '93: 66.2 passer rating
Akili in 2000: 52.8 passer rating

Klingler in '93: 6 TD's to 9 INT's
Akili in 2000: 3 TD's to 6 INT's

Pretty much everything that Klingler did bad, Akili did much worse.

[NKURyan]

(05-29-2019, 12:51 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: It's gotta be Akili. Not only did we pass up the Saints entire draft, but the guy authored one of the worst passing seasons in NFL history.

12 games
11 starts
1253 yards (4.69 yards/attempt)
3 TD's
6 INT's
44.2% completion rate
52.8 passer rating

The guy was so abysmal in 2000 that we averaged a franchise record low 11.6 points/game despite a great season from Corey Dillon (1435 rush yards on 4.6 ypc). He was so bad that people were clamoring for Scott Mitchell, who was only marginally better.

People lump Akili in with Klingler, but Klingler's 1993 season (the only where he started the majority of games) was far better in every statistical measure, and Klingler didn't have Corey Dillon.

-------------

Honorable mention to Ogbuehi. That dude almost single handedly wrecked 2 seasons and set us back for several years. We've had players that couldn't get on the field, but the fact that Ogbuehi started 25 games puts him well above some other busts imo.

Others who deserve mention: David Verser, Ricky Hunley, Chris Perry, Keith Rivers, and possibly John Ross. I'm trying not to list guys who flamed out due to injury.

Pretty much exactly what I was thinking - it's Akili, then Cedric for me. Akili gets the nod just because of what the Bengals passed up on (NO's entire draft).

Can't really comment on guys like Verser and Hunley because I'm not old enough to remember them. You guys definitely build a good case for them, though.

I can't really consider a 2nd rounder to be the biggest bust in Bengals history, personally, so I disagree on guys like Irons and Thurman.

[THE PISTONS]

QB's and skill players are easier to evaluate statistically. A bad Tackle? I guess we can research sacks allowed, but what they do is more intangible.

Ced also wasn't a Top 3 pick.

[*pally*]

no brainer- Akilli Smith

He ranks in the top 10 of all time NFL busts

[Shake n Blake]

(05-29-2019, 02:06 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Pretty much exactly what I was thinking - it's Akili, then Cedric for me. Akili gets the nod just because of what the Bengals passed up on (NO's entire draft).

Can't really comment on guys like Verser and Hunley because I'm not old enough to remember them. You guys definitely build a good case for them, though.

I can't really consider a 2nd rounder to be the biggest bust in Bengals history, personally, so I disagree on guys like Irons and Thurman.

I'm not old enough either, but I've heard the tales. Totally agree on 2nd rounders. Sure, they can be busts, but it's hard to throw a 2nd rounder up against guys like Akili, Klingler and Hunley. The expectations are higher for your 1st round picks.

(05-29-2019, 02:59 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: QB's and skill players are easier to evaluate statistically. A bad Tackle? I guess we can research sacks allowed, but what they do is more intangible.

Ced also wasn't a Top 3 pick.

Fair enough on being a later pick, but it was pretty clear how Og affected the team, stats or no. The negative impact he had puts him up there for me. 

[THE PISTONS]

(05-29-2019, 03:34 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I'm not old enough either, but I've heard the tales. Totally agree on 2nd rounders. Sure, they can be busts, but it's hard to throw a 2nd rounder up against guys like Akili, Klingler and Hunley. The expectations are higher for your 1st round picks.


Fair enough on being a later pick, but it was pretty clear how Og affected the team, stats or no. The negative impact he had puts him up there for me. 

I think the fact that he went after Whitworth made it worse too.

If he replaced Rod Jones or someone like that, it would look a little less worse. He was definitely really bad though.