Jonah Williams out for the season

[kevin]

(06-29-2019, 01:09 AM)Nately120 Wrote: But the problem with that is that we were hoping that Mike Brown wasn't the guy making the lion's (tiger's?) share of the decisions now.  Right now we are looking at a 1st round o-lineman who had a bum shoulder and can't even play in 2019 and the only QB we bothered bringing in that we traded up for who can't even complete a pass.  Seems like we'd be going from "ZT and Katie are the brilliant wave of the future!" to "Oh crap...I hope Mike Brown is still being a draft-pick tyrant" in a hurry.

I said Mike and the same old Front Office and that includes the much over rated Katie.  I'm trying to think of a 1st Round Pick who wasn't injured most of his Rookie year for Bengals.  Price was injured, Ross was, Jackson was, Ogbuhei was, Dennard was, Kirkpatrick was.  It's hard to find 1st Round picks who weren't injured most of Rookie year.  Sometimes they drafted knowing the guy would be out his rookie year, they did that several times.  Just about everybody I listed was injured when Bengals drafted them #1.   That's not a good thing for a franchise that has always been Paul Brown in avoiding free agents and depending on The Draft. 

I'm not scuttling the season over this, but the new coach has a major challenge now getting this team to block, a weakness the last few years. This team has stunk on blocking. It isn't Dalton. It is the no blocking. No team can win without blocking. Hopefully the guy from Bills can stay healthy at LT. That would be a start. People say we have all these good players. No we don't. If you don't have blocking, you don't have anything.

[*Nately120*]

(06-29-2019, 01:28 AM)kevin Wrote: I said Mike and the same old Front Office and that includes the much over rated Katie.  I'm trying to think of a 1st Round Pick who wasn't injured most of his Rookie year for Bengals.  Price was injured, Ross was, Jackson was, Ogbuhei was, Dennard was, Kirkpatrick was.  It's hard to find 1st Round picks who weren't injured most of Rookie year.  Sometimes they drafted knowing the guy would be out his rookie year, they did that several times.  Just about everybody I listed was injured when Bengals drafted them #1.   That's not a good thing for a franchise that has always been Paul Brown in avoiding free agents and depending on The Draft. 

I'm not scuttling the season over this, but the new coach has a major challenge now getting this team to block,  a weakness the last few years.  This team has stunk on blocking.  It isn't Dalton.  It is the no blocking.  No team can win without blocking.  Hopefully the guy from Bills can stay healthy at LT.  That would be a start. People say we have all these good players.  No we don't.  If you don't have blocking, you don't have anything.

I wasn't disagreeing with you.

[OSUfan]

(06-29-2019, 01:09 AM)Nately120 Wrote: But the problem with that is that we were hoping that Mike Brown wasn't the guy making the lion's (tiger's?) share of the decisions now.  Right now we are looking at a 1st round o-lineman who had a bum shoulder and can't even play in 2019 and the only QB we bothered bringing in that we traded up for who can't even complete a pass.  Seems like we'd be going from "ZT and Katie are the brilliant wave of the future!" to "Oh crap...I hope Mike Brown is still being a draft-pick tyrant" in a hurry.

Please provide the data to back your claim that Williams had a pre-existing shoulder injury....oh and make it data other than the article of complete speculation from the San Diego Tribune. I just want to make sure we are completely clear on what you are suggesting..

1) He had a shoulder injury which required surgery that he completely hid from the Alabama staff and was able to play in every game in his three years there.

2) He was also able to hide this shoulder injury which required surgery from the medical team which administers physicals at the NFL combine.

So above are the claims that you are making..would you argree?

[OSUfan]

(06-28-2019, 01:14 PM)fortyyearfan Wrote: DUDE plays on the top team in college,never gets hurt,faces the best their is and comes here and gets slammed in otas.unreal and you just know the bengals are for sure cursed and snake bit and its gotta be in the water.I predict this dude will never be a stud in the nfl,he looks to me like he does not have the body style to handle the top talent in the world called the NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE.WHAT INSANITY. :paul:

I guess it is a good thing that NFL staffs and scouts do not evaluate off of looks and body types.

Yet you state that he played for the top team in the nation and faces the best there is then turn around and say that he cant do what you just stated? Bipolar maybe?

[fredtoast]

(06-28-2019, 11:38 AM)Wyche Wrote: I wasn't making up anything.....we brought back Cedric Peerman in a season that was slipping down the tubes at that point.  My choice would have been to get the youngster some valuable game reps vs getting a STer that we know doesn't need the experience.  I disagreed with the move, and that's all there is to it.

But Jackson had not even had a training camp to get ready.  He might not have been prepared to step right in a play. You have no idea.

Plus he had 3 healthy CBs in front of him. 

[THE PISTONS]

(06-29-2019, 01:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But Jackson had not even had a training camp to get ready.  He might not have been prepared to step right in a play. You have no idea.

Plus he had 3 healthy CBs in front of him. 

Yeah that was a tough situation. If I recall correctly, we were fighting for a playoff spot too...so the special teamer seemed to make an impact in that way. Hindsight being 20/20...Jackson was probably the better call.

[kevin]

Resign Fisher NOW, ASAP and get him into new coach start of Training Camp.

[kalibengal]

how does your 1st Rd pick get injured during no pad camp?? Was it in weight room? the bigger question is if was in weight room how does this happen? There should be procedures in place to ensure these things don't happen...but its just a reminder that this team is the "Bengals"
this is crazy,,,

[Bengalitis]

(06-29-2019, 09:53 PM)kalibengal Wrote: how  does your 1st Rd pick get injured during no pad camp?? Was it in weight room? the bigger question is if was in weight room how does this happen? There should be procedures in place to ensure these things don't happen...but its just a reminder that this team is the "Bengals"  
this is crazy,,,

If so, the training coach should be fired immediately.

[BengalsRocker]

(06-29-2019, 09:53 PM)kalibengal Wrote: how  does your 1st Rd pick get injured during no pad camp?? Was it in weight room? the bigger question is if was in weight room how does this happen? There should be procedures in place to ensure these things don't happen...but its just a reminder that this team is the "Bengals"  
this is crazy,,,

"Ya just gotta believe he was tripped by his dog guys!"

[jfkbengals]

(06-29-2019, 10:54 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: If so, the training coach should be fired immediately.

Are you implying that injuries that occur in the weight room are the direct result of dereliction of duty by the training coach?

[samhain]

(06-29-2019, 05:11 PM)kevin Wrote: Resign Fisher NOW, ASAP and get him into new coach start of Training Camp.

Why?  Wasn't he trying to switch positions to TE?  Does he even have the size to play tackle anymore?  He was never really all that great anyway.

This is the time to sign a(nother) stopgap vet or camp cut.  A camp cut may be a tough ask, too due to the fact that there's a shortage of good OTs in the NFL right now.

[SunsetBengal]

(06-29-2019, 09:53 PM)kalibengal Wrote: how  does your 1st Rd pick get injured during no pad camp?? Was it in weight room? the bigger question is if was in weight room how does this happen? There should be procedures in place to ensure these things don't happen...but its just a reminder that this team is the "Bengals"  
this is crazy,,,

Any number of ways, actually.  Even though they are in helmets and shorts, plenty of contact is going on, particularly with the OL/DL.  I'm guessing that it was likely a freak thing, where he might have stuck his arm out straight in a pass blocking situation.  Having one's arm locked straight out, rather than with a little bend in the elbow, allows the entire force of the load to be transferred right to the shoulder, rather than absorbed by all of the various muscle groups between the hand and the shoulder.

[OSUfan]

(06-29-2019, 09:53 PM)kalibengal Wrote: how  does your 1st Rd pick get injured during no pad camp?? Was it in weight room? the bigger question is if was in weight room how does this happen? There should be procedures in place to ensure these things don't happen...but its just a reminder that this team is the "Bengals"  
this is crazy,,,

So your argument is that the bench press should be done away with at the combine because Billy Price happened to get injured during the bench press even thought hundreds of others have done it at the combine with no injury? You do not believe that during exercises that are physical in nature that injuries do happen no matter how much you prepare against them?

[OSUfan]

(06-29-2019, 08:46 AM)OSUfan Wrote: Please provide the data to back your claim that Williams had a pre-existing shoulder injury....oh and make it data other than the article of complete speculation from the San Diego Tribune. I just want to make sure we are completely clear on what you are suggesting..

1) He had a shoulder injury which required surgery that he completely hid from the Alabama staff and was able to play in every game in his three years there.

2) He was also able to hide this shoulder injury which required surgery from the medical team which administers physicals at the NFL combine.

So above are the claims that you are making..would you argree?

Crickets...……...

[samhain]

(06-29-2019, 08:46 AM)OSUfan Wrote: Please provide the data to back your claim that Williams had a pre-existing shoulder injury....oh and make it data other than the article of complete speculation from the San Diego Tribune. I just want to make sure we are completely clear on what you are suggesting..

1) He had a shoulder injury which required surgery that he completely hid from the Alabama staff and was able to play in every game in his three years there.

2) He was also able to hide this shoulder injury which required surgery from the medical team which administers physicals at the NFL combine.

So above are the claims that you are making..would you argree?

Since you're assuming the role of forum police and patting yourself on the back in multiple posts (which is hilariously sad, lol), I'll take a crack at this.  

1.  Maybe the shoulder injury wasn't catastrophic at Alabama.  Maybe the tear wasn't complete or severe.  There could have been damage that didn't prevent him from playing at a reasonably high level. Are you going to say that football players at high levels of the game don't play though injuries every single week? Do you think that every injury that players sustain is disclosed to fans?  If he had the beginnings of an issue that he could play through and address at the end of the year, then why wouldn't he?

2.  What if he didn't hide it from the Alabama medical staff?  Maybe they knew and didn't disclose it to the public.  Teams don't have to do that.  The Bengals sure as hell didn't disclose what his injury was when it occurred.  It took weeks and most of us believed it was a small issue due to the "dinged up" description in the headline.  They haven't told us how or when it happened, they don't really have to, and they most likely never will.

We're talking about the left tackle for arguably the best team in college football over the last decade.  He was expected to be a high first round pick before the season started, and his team was in the hunt and perhaps favored to win a national title.  I'd call that a key player on a team with a lot on the line.  You don't think that there's a chance that if he could play through an injury, that perhaps he would want to or be encouraged to?  

Add to this the fact that he stood to make millions if he came into the last weekend of April perceived as 100% healthy, and you have a guy with all the reasons in the world to hide an injury and put off fixing it until, you know, he made himself financially secure for the rest of his life.  

As for team examinations, let's not pretend this team hasn't been lacking in this department in the past (Bryant).  If other teams tested him and found something fishy, then why would they share that info with other teams that might potentially blow a high first rounder on him?  Maybe the Bengals staff missed it, or it wasn't as apparent as it was when he did whatever he did in camp (or who knows where else) to it.  

I'm not saying that he did this or that it was preexisting.  I just wouldn't be all that surprised to find out that a player with that much to gain on a team with everything on the line would hide something like that.  I also wouldn't be shocked at all to find out that the Bengals brass didn't do their due diligence on a player before drafting him.  I don't think that you're implication that nothing could possibly get past them is valid.  it's happened before.  

Is it likely?  No.  I hope like hell it didn't go down that way.  Still, I'm not going to knock fans that have a few questions when a player has a season-ending injury in no-pad camp out of the blue.  I'm not the forum police.  That's your job to decide what people should or shouldn't talk about, right? Data? LOL. I didn't realize that we needed a flow chart and power point presentation to converse on a football forum. I'll give you some data: The dude that wrote the article for the Union Tribune is an actual medical doctor that has been in the employ of an actual NFL team. He's seen the evaluation process and been to the combine (probably several) in a professional capacity.

Where'd you get your medical degree to get your data, doctor? You ask for data when all you have is snark and pissy attitude. How many NFL teams have you worked for in any capacity other than unofficial forum police? LOL. How many NFL executives and owners have offered you a salary for your professional opinion? I'd say Dr Chao's (the author) carries significantly more weight than yours by a long shot.

[TKUHL]

Sorry I've been away from the board for about a month. WTF happen, did he get injured recently or was this a college injury? If so did our FO know this was a possibility. Smh ffs

[TKUHL]

All I know is this TE better be freakin awesome. That pick should have been OL/LB but that's just my opinion.

[TKUHL]

So much for that revamped line. Damnit

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(06-29-2019, 09:53 PM)kalibengal Wrote: how  does your 1st Rd pick get injured during no pad camp??

The same way other players do.