Rank our QB (2019)

[wildcatnku24]

I voted 1-5 because I want to believe this new offense will yield better results for him.

Does he have any kind of baseball related appearance coming soon before the season starts? If so, we should all attend and boo him. It's worked before.

[Essex Johnson]

I have him right on the cusp 15

[fredtoast]

Some people are obviously placing Dalton behind "potential". Is that what this poll is really asking? Or is it supposed to be which QB is actually the best?

[*bfine32*]

(06-27-2019, 09:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Some people are obviously placing Dalton behind "potential".  Is that what this poll is really asking?  Or is it supposed to be which QB is actually the best?

It's a forecast as to where you think he will rank next year compared to his peers. It's why I always bring up where folks rated each position last year so we can see how accurate we are. 

I get it's imperfect to rank based merely on passer rating; as QBs like Cam Newton bring a lot to the rushing game, but we use what we got. It's not a lifetime achievement award. For instance this year I think Watson will do better than Big Ben, but their careers are not comparable.  

[*Nately120*]

(06-27-2019, 09:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Some people are obviously placing Dalton behind "potential".  Is that what this poll is really asking?  Or is it supposed to be which QB is actually the best?

Potential was the league MVP last year, so sometimes you just have to take a shot on a new guy.

[fredtoast]

(06-27-2019, 10:14 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Potential was the league MVP last year, so sometimes you just have to take a shot on a new guy.

I don't know what you mean.

All I am asking is if we are rating Dalton's competition on "potential" or what they have actually done?  I don't want to waste my time bringing any statistics or facts into the discussion if it is all just based on wishes.

[fredtoast]

(06-27-2019, 09:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I get it's imperfect to rank based merely on passer rating; as QBs like Cam Newton bring a lot to the rushing game, but we use what we got. 

But you are clearly not using passer rating.  You have Dalton behind Josh Allen and Sam Darnold.

[grampahol]

(06-27-2019, 12:47 PM)wildcatnku24 Wrote: I voted 1-5 because I want to believe this new offense will yield better results for him.

Does he have any kind of baseball related appearance coming soon before the season starts?  If so, we should all attend and boo him.  It's worked before.

You're on to something there. Suit Andy up in a Reds uniform for the rest of the Reds season so we can celebrate winning the superbowl and who knows? Maybe he has a killer changeup pitch and can hit .450 for the season and hit 60 HRs.. Nobody knows, eh? 

[*Nately120*]

(06-29-2019, 12:53 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't know what you mean.

All I am asking is if we are rating Dalton's competition on "potential" or what they have actually done?  I don't want to waste my time bringing any statistics or facts into the discussion if it is all just based on wishes.

I'm saying last year we did a thread where ranked the 2018 QBs before the season and Mahommes was near the bottom of many lists because he "hadn't done anything yet" which I thought went against the nature of predicting things.  When I look at stuff like this I try to think where the QBs will end up at the end of the year...because if you aren't looking ahead you may as well just rank the QBs from last year and only talk about what has already happened.

I recall actually debating a guy on here who had Josh McCown ranked above Mahommes even though there was a 99% chance McCown was going to play 3 or games max and Mahommes and Reed were very unlikely to completely bust out of the league, but we can't see the future so put the vet above him.

Plus, we have a HC with a 0-0 W/L record and we aren't afraid to assume he's better than Hue Jackson who has a higher win percentage, and so on.  There is a difference between predicting and wishing.  I predict ZT will win more than 6 games...sure, it's a wish but it is also something than can be backed up by logical conjecture.  It's a sound hypothesis, hain't it?

[HarleyDog]

(06-29-2019, 03:01 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Plus, we have a HC with a 0-0 W/L record and we aren't afraid to assume he's better than Hue Jackson 

I'm cutting against the grain of popular opinion here, but I've never cared for Hugh Jackson at any coaching position. Dude is as fake as they come. Dalton has been thrown into many different schemes with different OC's. I think his chance for success this year is far beyond what some realize. There is a lot of QB assistance and guidance on this team beginning with ZT himself. The play calling will be different and the focus will be different. We have two awesome RB's that with their contribution, will buy Andy more time to throw.

As I've watched Andy throughout the years, he has matured plenty. Granted, he not perfect by any means but he is playing smarter football than he was a few years ago. Heres the most important point I will try to make on Andy, his guys respect him much more than they used to. Remember his speech in the tunnel prior to the game a few years ago? 




His guys were not motivated. Hell, if I remember correctly when I seen this live, I felt deflated and the game hadn't even started yet. Yet, then there's last year. Couple comeback victories early and his guys praised him for his leadership and his calmness under pressure. That's the difference between the old Andy and the Andy today. Now with this coaching staff, I hope we see an even more confident Andy. Dude has taken a beating the last few years and has been on his back more in one season than all the hookers combined in America (ok, maybe not that much  )

Guys going to be solid this year. He's already learned to QB behind an OL that seems to let players through on purpose (like the game against the guards in "The Longest Yard). Plus, we don't have OG any loner. I'm not an Andy homer, but I see a QB that has a lot of gas in his tank left who continues to learn. That my friends is a middle aged dog who still learns new tricks. 

I voted 11-15. Top half of the league.

[*bfine32*]

(06-29-2019, 12:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But you are clearly not using passer rating.  You have Dalton behind Josh Allen and Sam Darnold.

That's why I said it's a forecast of what they will do this year. I think the rookies will improve their games as the talent around them improves. If we simply used last year's passer rating we could just say Andy will be 26th and close the thread.

[fredtoast]

(06-29-2019, 04:01 PM)bfine32 Wrote: That's why I said it's a forecast of what they will do this year. I think the rookies will improve their games as the talent around them improves. If we simply used last year's passer rating we could just say Andy will be 26th and close the thread.

So you are not really saying which QB is better or more talented.  Instead you are just guessing at which one will have better numbers based on the talent around them.

[*Synric*]

I'll side with PFF that put Andy Dalton at #12 in 2018. So I'll vote 11-15...

[GreenCornBengal]

(06-26-2019, 10:44 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Each year I post a series of threads where we rank our starter against others in the NFL and 2019 will be no different. As usual we will start out with the QB. Last year the consensus(42%) had Andy at 11-14 he finished 26th. So where do we have the Red Rocket this year? Make sure you vote in the poll.

I'm curious, where was Andy before his season ended? Is his lack of games weighing his season down?

[*bfine32*]

(06-30-2019, 10:27 AM)fredtoast Wrote: So you are not really saying which QB is better or more talented.  Instead you are just guessing at which one will have better numbers based on the talent around them.

I am "guessing" which QB will have the better season in 2019. I get you want to come up with "reasons", but it is what it is. Most everyone else has been able to figure it out. 

[John Shaft]

(06-26-2019, 01:15 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Honestly, I'd put him above Foles.

DUDE ?
 Foles shines in big games. No hater but Dalton wets the bed.
I've been gone awhile. I guess THIS is what I've been missing. lol

[fredtoast]

(06-30-2019, 12:25 PM)John Shaft Wrote: DUDE ?
 Foles shines in big games. No hater but Dalton wets the bed.
I've been gone awhile. I guess THIS is what I've been missing. lol

Foles does not always shine in big games. It depends on the team he has around him.  He had a 100+ rating in all 3 2017 postseason games, but had a 70.5 rating in two postseason games last year.

Obviously Dalton has done worse in postseason, but Foles is not automatic.

[fredtoast]

(06-30-2019, 11:31 AM)bfine32 Wrote:  I get you want to come up with "reasons", but it is what it is. 

In that case I want to change my vote to "top 5"

[*bfine32*]

(06-30-2019, 11:30 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I'm curious, where was Andy before his season ended? Is his lack of games weighing his season down?

Lack of games has 0 affect on passer rating other getting enough attempts to "qualify".

[*bfine32*]

(06-30-2019, 11:01 AM)Synric Wrote: I'll side with PFF that put Andy Dalton at #12 in 2018. So I'll vote 11-15...

Unfortunately, I cannot see PFF rankings without a subscription. But:

SportingNews has him at 26 https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/nfl-quarterback-rankings-2019-best-worst-1-32/11p5evm1b6g0v1tbu8lvzo5rzq 

Touchdown Wire at 25 https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2019/06/08/ranking-the-quarterbacks-for-all-32-teams-in-2019/9/

Athlon at 28 https://athlonsports.com/nfl/nfl-quarterback-rankings

CBS at 24 https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/football/news/2019-fantasy-football-quarterback-dynasty-rankings-patrick-mahomes-still-no-1/

Chris Simms at 26 https://sports.yahoo.com/chris-simms-full-2019-top-183647574.html


I sure hope PFF is right.