Dennard elite against the run in 2018

[XsandOs]

(07-02-2019, 09:07 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: He was a #21 draft pick. His salary has absolutely nothing to do with talent. If he was as good as you say teams would have been salivating to take him in free agency. Guess what? No other team offered him what he wanted so he came back with his tail between his legs. Any employee, any job will take less from another company before eating crow. All I hear is this players great. That Players great. but the bottom line is they haven't won a playoff game IN A QUARTER CENTURY

Teams don't pick first round CBs to play slot. He is stuck behind Dre and WJ.

So his market was slot, not outside. That's unfair to him, but that's his resume'.

He is making the best of playing arguably a tough position.

Slot is under appreciated by fans, but it is maddening to prepare for. Rarely you get safety help, you don't have the boundary as a defender, you are exposed to crossing route picks, and in any given week you have to prepare for quick twitch or big possession receivers. And you have outside responsibility on run.

Maybe he will get his chance to go back outside, but until then, he is part of the strength of this defense - a solid secondary.

[Catmandude123]

(07-03-2019, 01:43 AM)XsandOs Wrote: Teams don't pick first round CBs to play slot. He is stuck behind Dre and WJ.

So his market was slot, not outside. That's unfair to him, but that's his resume'.

He is making the best of playing arguably a tough position.

Slot is under appreciated by fans, but it is maddening to prepare for. Rarely you get safety help, you don't have the boundary as a defender, you are exposed to crossing route picks, and in any given week you have to prepare for quick twitch or big possession receivers. And you have outside responsibility on run.

Maybe he will get his chance to go back outside, but until then, he is part of the strength of this defense - a solid secondary.

Blah, blah,  blah. Again tell me why he wasn't taken by one of the thirty one other teams this off season? He resigned a one year contract with the Bengals at half his 2018 salary. 

[fredtoast]

(07-02-2019, 09:07 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: He was a #21 draft pick. His salary has absolutely nothing to do with talent.

You can't have it both ways.

You can't say his salary matters because he didn't get a big free agent deal and then turn around and say he his salasry doesn't matter.

[fredtoast]

(07-03-2019, 08:30 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Blah, blah,  blah. Again tell me why he wasn't taken by one of the thirty one other teams this off season? 

Because the Bengals paid him what he is worth.

[fredtoast]

(07-02-2019, 07:52 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: "He's paid more than rookies, so he MUST be good. That's why Dennard is "better" William Jackson and 19 other starters, because he makes more." - Fred



This argument didn't work when Nate Livings got overpaid and quickly cut and out of the league. It didn't work when Dre Kirkpatrick got overpaid. It's not going to work now. I don't know why you keep falling back on this one... nobody has ever bought it.

Okay, just tell me how NFL teams determin how much to pay a player.  If it has nothing to do with talent then what is it based on?

Nate Livings lost his job due to injury.  It happens all the time.

[Catmandude123]

(07-03-2019, 09:42 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Okay, just tell me how NFL teams determin how much to pay a player.  If it has nothing to do with talent then what is it based on?

Nate Livings lost his job due to injury.  It happens all the time.

Signed for half of his 2018 salary with none of the other 31 teams bidding. Tell me again how great he is.

[Catmandude123]

(07-03-2019, 09:37 AM)fredtoast Wrote: You can't have it both ways.

You can't say his salary matters because he didn't get a big free agent deal and then turn around and say he his salasry doesn't matter.

I thought I said salary has nothing to do with talent. Teams will over pay for a need they have. Don't you think its odd that the great CB wasn't a need for their team. Thirty one other teams think like I do. Only the Bengals wanted him and at only half of what they paid him last year. You talk like he is a pro bowler but a rookie came in and took the outside CB position from him. He is an under achiever for where he was drafted.

[fredtoast]

(07-03-2019, 10:35 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: I thought I said salary has nothing to do with talent. Teams will over pay for a need they have. Don't you think its odd that the great CB wasn't a need for their team. Thirty one other teams think like I do. Only the Bengals wanted him and at only half of what they paid him last year. You talk like he is a pro bowler but a rookie came in and took the outside CB position from him. He is an under achiever for where he was drafted.

I don't even understand what you are trying to argue here.

Are you saying that every player who resigns with hsi own team sucks?  If so I have a lot of examples to prove you wrong.

I am saying that Dennard got paid what he was worth.  Doesn't matter which team gave it to him.  Why would it make any difference if some other team paid him the same money ionstead of the Bengals?

[XsandOs]

(07-03-2019, 08:30 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Blah, blah,  blah. Again tell me why he wasn't taken by one of the thirty one other teams this off season? He resigned a one year contract with the Bengals at half his 2018 salary. 

Teams don't sign players who can't pass physical. He has a knee that required procedure.

So he signed a one year deal, with both sides aware of the knee issue and knowing that he might miss some time.

[Catmandude123]

(07-03-2019, 12:43 PM)XsandOs Wrote: Teams don't sign players who can't pass physical. He has a knee that required procedure.

You mean teams other than the Bengals? Right?

[fortyyearfan]

(07-02-2019, 03:39 AM)XsandOs Wrote: Fred, this guy is invaluable to Bengals. Slot is the latest trend in NFL and exploiting the inside with a WR, after the TE clears the LB, is the fad.

Teams are putting their top receivers in the slot more and more. Even AJ ran some routs out of the slot last year.

So the December 15th game will be the moneymaker or breaker for Denard.

Since Brady no longer has the arm for the out routes, this game will determine the tier where Denard belongs.

I'm waiting for the FB and I formation to come back in earnest...

We are going to see players that were drafted in 2017-2018 that goofy marvin would not allow on the field,they are going to be some of them that are going to be studs.Yes,some of them were injured and I get that,however Wilson and Phillips are going to make the team and so will Jefferson.Lets go :andy:

[fredtoast]

(07-03-2019, 01:49 PM)fortyyearfan Wrote:  Wilson and Phillips are going to make the team.

Because of their big hits?

[XsandOs]

(07-03-2019, 01:33 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: You mean teams other than the Bengals? Right?

Irrelevant to the discussion.

You were stating that 31 other Teams were not interested in him and I gave you the reason for it - and we don't know if there were other interested Teams and what they offered.

[grampahol]

Denard is one of a long list of players who when he's playing well many fans tend to think he's the greatest player on the team, but when he's not he's an absolute bust. I see him more as a niche type guy good against the run on certain plays, not very good against pass plays, but occasionally gets lucky enough to be seen as better than he actually is. Far from the worst player on the team and far from the best. The Bengals paid him for what he's worth hoping to sell him for what he thinks he's worth. 

[Catmandude123]

(07-03-2019, 02:12 PM)XsandOs Wrote: Irrelevant to the discussion.

You were stating that 31 other Teams were not interested in him and I gave you the reason for it - and we don't know if there were other interested Teams and what they offered.

So he came back to the Bengals for less money than another team offered? HA HA HA HA HA What degree of homer are you? Nth?

[*Synric*]

(07-03-2019, 02:31 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: So he came back to the Bengals for less money than another team offered? HA HA HA HA HA What degree of homer are you? Nth?

I've never understood how people can use the word homer as a derogatory name to describe a fan of they same team...

[XsandOs]

(07-03-2019, 02:31 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: So he came back to the Bengals for less money than another team offered? HA HA HA HA HA What degree of homer are you? Nth?

Didn't say that.

You said there were 31 Teams not interested in him. No one knows if there were other interested Teams, or what they offered, and over what time period.

You seem frustrated and are making incoherent statements.

[fredtoast]

(07-03-2019, 02:31 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: So he came back to the Bengals for less money than another team offered? HA HA HA HA HA What degree of homer are you? Nth?

I don't know.  What did the Chiefs offer him?

[BengalChris]

(07-02-2019, 01:14 AM)fredtoast Wrote: https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2019/07/01/darqueze-dennard-elite-against-run-2018/

CB Darqueze Dennard was the highest-graded defender for the #Bengals vs. the run last season.

His 2018 stats and position rank against the run:

-90.2 run-defense grade (6th)
-4.2 run stop percentage (6th)
-A total tackling efficiency of 17.8 (16th among 131 qualifying CBs)

Cincinnati Bengals cornerback Darqueze Dennard was quietly one of the team’s best players against the run in 2018.

Given the failed state of the linebacker unit and the eventuality of a coordinator getting fired, it isn’t necessarily a good thing that a corner like Dennard ended up as the team’s best run defender.

Even so, Dennard had some impressive ranks with the numbers above provided by Pro Football Focus.


I know you have all heard my rants about PFF rankings, but if you read closely what I have written I have always given PFF credit for producing some decent OBJECTIVE stats.  I don't know how they calculate "run defense grade", but I assume that "run stop opercentage" and "tackling efficiency" are based on some formulas using fairly objective stats instead of their subjective "bonus points" ranking system.

Any Pff guys know how they come up with these stats?

I loved the pick when we selected Dennard. While he hasn't lived up to his 1st round selection, he has been a solid corner. The fact that our LBers were so piss-poor last year and let everything past them it was nice that the secondary, and Dennard in particular, were there to make the tackle. Bates made a lot of tackles as well and led the team if I remember right. It's too bad that our LBers were a step slow and a dollar short play after play.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(07-02-2019, 09:07 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: He was a #21 draft pick. His salary has absolutely nothing to do with talent. If he was as good as you say teams would have been salivating to take him in free agency. Guess what? No other team offered him what he wanted so he came back with his tail between his legs. Any employee, any job will take less from another company before eating crow. All I hear is this players great. That Players great. but the bottom line is they haven't won a playoff game IN A QUARTER CENTURY

24th.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DennDa00.htm

Stop it.