Dalton's make or break year

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(07-17-2019, 05:53 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: When he lost in the playoffs to some of these same players or lesser QBs it isn't his fault? His record against Big Ben is appalling . Losses to TJ Yates, Matt Schaub in the playoffs is disheartening . Come on when will you open your eyes and see he is a hack. Its nice to look at the possibilities but when the reality slaps you time and again it is very hard to do.

You spelled Marvin Lewis wrong.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(07-17-2019, 06:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Is every Bengal loss Dalton's fault?

If so, does he also get credit for every win?

You've been around fred.....you know better than that....we lose every game because of him, and win in spite of him.  Everyone knows that. 

[*Nately120*]

(07-18-2019, 09:50 AM)Wyche Wrote: You've been around fred.....you know better than that....we lose every game because of him, and win in spite of him.  Everyone knows that. 

We already have the o line excuse ready if the Steelers sweep us this year.  If 2019 doesn't go well we still can't judge Dalton accurately because the o line and at least one of our coordinators are going to be Tom Brady-ruiningly bad.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(07-18-2019, 10:04 AM)Nately120 Wrote: We already have the o line excuse ready if the Steelers sweep us this year.  If 2019 doesn't go well we still can't judge Dalton accurately because the o line and at least one of our coordinators are going to be Tom Brady-ruiningly bad.

That's the other extreme.....of course.  You should know, I base my observations and opinions on reality.  If you protect Dalton, he is good....even without elite talent at the skill positions (see 2014).  If you don't protect him, he struggles. It's that damn simple. There is no judging about it.  He's below average with poor protection, and he's a little above it with good protection. To me, the people that don't realize that, don't watch the game within the game, and never set foot between the hash marks unless they were playing the tuba at halftime.

[*Nately120*]

(07-18-2019, 10:08 AM)Wyche Wrote: That's the other extreme.....of course.  You should know, I base my observations and opinions on reality.  If you protect Dalton, he is good....even without elite talent at the skill positions (see 2014).  If you don't protect him, he struggles. It's that damn simple. There is no judging about it.  He's below average with poor protection, and he's a little above it with good protection. To me, the people that don't realize that, don't watch the game within the game, and never set foot between the hash marks unless they were playing the tuba at halftime.

I don't mean you specifically.  I think Dalton is pretty good and based on the 2011 QB draft class he was a godsend.  With that being said, we've established that he could win the SB somewhere else and that HOF QBs would not win the SB here.

We've pretty much written off the entire Marvin Lewis era as a waste of time and talent.  Dalton finally has a real HC that will give him a chance...why, he's technically a rookie!

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(07-18-2019, 10:13 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I don't mean you specifically.  I think Dalton is pretty good and based on moat of the 2011 QBs he was a godsend.  With that being said, we've established that he could win the SB somewhere else and that HOF QBs would not win the SB here.

We've pretty much written off the entire Marvin Lewis era as a waste of time and talent.  Dalton finally has a real HC that will give him a chance...why, he's technically a rookie!

LOL.....I hear ya Nate.  I look at Dalton like I did at Palmer during his time here.  When we protected him, Palmer was borderline elite.  Then the line went to hell, and he became pedestrian.  He was a pure pocket passer, you knew you had to protect him, we let the line age and let guys move on. I always said on the old board that the way they treated the line was like leaving a Veyron parked in downtown Detroit, unlocked and uninsured.  Now, Dalton has nowhere near the skillset that Carson had, but in this instance, it'd be like leaving a Land Rover in the same predicament.

As to Marvin, I am forever grateful to him for lifting us up out of the abyss.  He is to be commended for that.  However, I feel the message was stale, and Marvin had failed to adapt to an evolving game.  I also think he lost the team after the Pitt meltdown.  Many predicted that was the high water mark of the Marvin era when it happened, and I feel they were right.  You gotta look at it like this:  either we were snakebit for 16 years and 7 playoff games, we constantly drafted/traded for/and signed choke artists, or Marvin just didn't have what it takes to play with the big boys.  You make the call.

Zac is a total wild card at this point.  One thing he does have on his side is a new attitude, a sorely needed (in my opinion) injection of youth and enthusiasm, and the loss of the predictability that came to be the norm under Marvin.  We will soon see......

[*PhilHos*]

(07-18-2019, 01:20 AM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: sucked ass last 3 years 

2018 - QB rating 89.6
2017 - QB rating 86.6
2016 - QB rating 91.8

Your definition of "sucked ass" sucks ass.

[fredtoast]

(07-18-2019, 08:56 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: The fact remains that waiting hasn't done a thing as far as improving the team. If you have a drag car that consistently loses in races with other cars you can either replace the pit crew, replace the driver or replace the car. The pit crew(ZT) has been replaced, the driver (AD) and the car(the other 52 team members) are next.

What if you have a driver who has performed at an elite level with a different pit crew and car?

[XsandOs]

(07-18-2019, 09:20 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Aaron Rodgers finished both seasons on IR. Drew Brees has had two seasons since AD came into the league with a QBR of under 100(96.3 and 97.1) AD has had one season (2015) with a Qbr over 100. Why must you compare a diamond with a lump of coal?

You are hiding behind numbers to cover your cliche' ridden nonsensical statement.

But just as a matter of discussion - even when a QBR of 96+ doesn't help you win, what does that say?

You don't care for Dalton. That's fine.

[fredtoast]

(07-18-2019, 09:20 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Aaron Rodgers finished both seasons on IR

And had a 10-12-1 record when he was healthy.

(07-18-2019, 09:20 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote:  Why must you compare a diamond with a lump of coal?

To prove it is bullshit that a diamond can win with no talent around him.

[Catmandude123]

(07-18-2019, 01:43 PM)Xsan Wrote: But just as a matter of discussion - even when a QBR of 96+ doesn't help you win, what does that sa

It says your QB isn't the reason you are losing. Touche Mr. Cliché.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(07-18-2019, 01:20 PM)PhilHos Wrote: 2018 - QB rating 89.6
2017 - QB rating 86.6
2016 - QB rating 91.8

Your definition of "sucked ass" sucks ass.

In this day and age being in the 80’s is pretty bad. I wouldn’t say it’s “sucking ass” but it’s also not “above average” like so many claim Dalton is. It’s pretty much the definition of mediocre.

[XsandOs]

(07-18-2019, 07:26 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: It says your QB isn't the reason you are losing. Touche Mr. Cliché.

I don't delve into cliche'. You do! That stems from armchair football analysis syndrome, from which you suffer.

But to your initial analysis - surely a QB with a QBR of mid 90s would elevate others around him to better than 7-9 record.

I am simply following your logic here.

[Shake n Blake]

So have we sorted out whether or not Dalton sucks yet? No?

[Catmandude123]

(07-18-2019, 11:41 PM)XsandOs Wrote: I don't delve into cliche'. You do! That stems from armchair football analysis syndrome, from which you suffer.

But to your initial analysis - surely a QB with a QBR of mid 90s would elevate others around him to better than 7-9 record.

I am simply following your logic here.

Last year AD was 15th in QBR. I know a football aficionado like you can see how a average QB can beat better QBs consistently. BTW Andy Dalton has had TWO seasons out of eight with a QBR over 90. I believe you got your name from tic-tac-toe instead of football experience.

[*Nately120*]

(07-19-2019, 12:38 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: So have we sorted out whether or not Dalton sucks yet? No?  

Even if he did suck.....Trent Dilfer, dude.

[*PhilHos*]

(07-18-2019, 08:51 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: In this day and age being in the 80’s is pretty bad. I wouldn’t say it’s “sucking ass” but it’s also not “above average” like so many claim Dalton is. It’s pretty much the definition of mediocre.

Make up your mind. Is it "pretty bad" or "the definition of mediocre"?

[XsandOs]

(07-19-2019, 07:40 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Last year AD was 15th in QBR. I know a football aficionado like you can see how a average QB can beat better QBs consistently. BTW Andy Dalton has had TWO seasons out of eight with a QBR over 90. I believe you got your name from tic-tac-toe instead of football experience.

You are too smart for a pretentious person like me.

So, I ask that you educate me on areas of improvement for Dalton.

Please be specific and refrain from sound bites such as lack of leadership, game manager, field vision, not elevating others, etc.

I am more interested in your words of wisdom on whether he isn't rotating the laces before he sticks the ball in RB gut, or his release point and trajectory, or read progression, or his arc from plant foot to his shoulder, etc. Feel free to expand to his mental limitations too.

You know - those points that a layman just doesn't understand.

[reuben.ahmed]

Just give him an offensive line so we can put some or most of the blame on him.

[Earendil]

(07-19-2019, 12:38 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: So have we sorted out whether or not Dalton sucks yet? No?  

Sometimes I feel like we are going to be having this argument long after Dalton retires.