How much has this team really improved this off-season?

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-17-2019, 11:04 PM)BengalChris Wrote: All of you mentioned it, but I have to ask: How is Taylor an upgrade over Marvin?

Remember that Marvin has been the only HC to put up a winning record under Mike Brown. All those before him failed.

Also remember that Taylor has no HC record at all.

Are we just hoping that Taylor will be better?

Are we hoping Taylor is better because, well, we really don't have a choice?

 

I'm giving ZT the benefit of the doubt because:

A dead man has better clock management than Marv.

Conservative play is stupid in today's game.  There has been zero creativity on offense since Hue and no aggression on defense since...I don't know when.  They are my team and they have been incredibly boring to watch.  I feel ZT will get more out of players if they are playing a more creative and aggressive style.  

Marv had lost team....he was saved for many years by some great coordinators.  Now I am hoping a better mind at HC will improve the entire team.  I will take the unknown over the guy that had no hope moving forward.  Marv even looked like he wasn't in to in anymore.  

Young, aggressive, and creative.  New Dey.  I'm excited.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-18-2019, 03:05 AM)Circleville Guy Wrote: The question that I have is: Have the Bengal improvements been better than the other teams improvements. You know, the teams that were already better than the Bengals. That means that the Bengals had to improve vastly for it to even matter.

The best teams in the NFL at the end of the season are almost always the healthiest as well.  They were 4-1 with a pathetic defense before injuries derailed them.  And that was with an awful DC, and a conservative, predictable HC.  

[jj22]

Truth is the front office was it's typical lazy self. and the roster never got any upgrade.

Nothing has changed but new Coaches. So the hope is all on ZT and his new staff.

But hey, we got 2 more weeks to believe and be positive before reality sets in, and this roster did start 4-1 so it's likely the Front Office didn't think a change in roster was needed.

[*Nately120*]

Things should at least be more interesting this season and that's enough for me. I will say that ZT should make the offense more interesting, but I'm not sure how much faith I should have in a recent QB coach and a DC with a Zampese-style resume taking over what was a season-ruining defense, though.

Getting an old and proven DC to take that side of the ball off the mind of the offense-obsessed millenial HC is the norm now, so we seem to be taking a risk there. So I can see assuming ZT is better than Marvin on offense, but it's possible we aren't better off on D yet.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(07-17-2019, 10:28 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: I think we’re counting on better coaching and players improving from year to year. Marvin leaving could be a huge addition by subtraction.

This.  Beat me to it.  We will soon see.....

[Bengalitis]

We have the 2nd easiest schedule this season that we've had in a long time. Because of it, well do well and people will think of Zac as the next "black Jesus" since Marvin. If we will do well and win 2 against pit or the stains, and make the playoffs, we'll have our 8th one and out playoff game under Andy. I could be wrong but I know how history likes to ride this team.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(07-18-2019, 10:00 AM)Bengalitis Wrote: We have the 2nd easiest schedule this season that we've had in a long time. Because of it, well do well and people will think of Zac as the next "black Jesus" since Marvin. If we will do well and win 2 against pit or the stains, and make the playoffs, we'll have our 8th one and out playoff game under Andy. I could be wrong but I know how history likes to ride this team.

Bro.....Andy has only played in 4 playoff games. :andy:

[*pally*]

We saw a beat-up defense get significantly better once Austin was fired. Hopefully, the new staff is building on that with all the starters returning. One thing our new offense will do is take away some of our built in predictability. The offense stagnated. Seriously, if the fans could predict what play was going to be called in any given situation so could the opposing team.

Besides, I'm still in the off-season happy place where we all know a Super Bowl is in our future so they have to be better than last year. Reality will sink in soon enough

[impactplaya]

just overhauling the coaching staff is an improvement in itself.
Haslett and Austin took out any teeth the defense had.
ZT is actually going to be innovative and scheme to the strengths of his
skill players.
now its up to the players to learn and execute.

[3wt]

(07-18-2019, 08:52 AM)jj22 Wrote: Truth is the front office was it's typical lazy self. and the roster never got any upgrade.

Nothing has changed but new Coaches. So the hope is all on ZT and his new staff.

But hey, we got 2 more weeks to believe and be positive before reality sets in, and this roster did start 4-1 so it's likely the Front Office didn't think a change in roster was needed.

Yeah I think we have a mixed bag here.   Someone said it earlier in this thread, but I was pretty disillusioned by Troy Blackburn's little rant about the Hart signing.  It screamed, "You don't know what is really happening" and "What else was I supposed to do?"   All of which I thought was incredibly lame from both a personal/ professional behavior perspective and a strategic perspective.

I do credit the overall administration for their choice of Taylor and their success in handling the previous staff (essentially not signing more than the 3 (Simmons, Bicknell and Van Pelt) previous holdovers.   I think their overall thinking was that we need to step into a fresh group of what appear to be really smart coaches.   So far I've been very encouraged by Taylor's vision, the changes in his approach, his overall intelligence and creativity; and his blend of, "produce or else" and I'm willing to listen to players/ coaches input.  

I've also been pleased with the apparent quality of Callahan, Anarumo, Eason, Casey, Martin and Lukabu.


Marvin Lewis had a lot to recommend him - especially at the beginning of his tenure.  But I'm VERY excited about this cerebral and professional crew.  Shame we had to lose Williams and Boling.  And the biggest failure of the team (though I think it's primarily the administration) was the Hart fiasco.  

But all in all I think we have an upgrade here.

[Bengalitis]

(07-18-2019, 10:05 AM)Wyche Wrote: Bro.....Andy has only played in 4 playoff games. :andy:

You just burst my bubble.

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-18-2019, 09:00 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Things should at least be more interesting this season and that's enough for me.  I will say that ZT should make the offense more interesting, but I'm not sure how much faith I should have in a recent QB coach and a DC with a Zampese-style resume taking over what was a season-ruining defense, though.

Getting an old and proven DC to take that side of the ball off the mind of the offense-obsessed millenial HC is the norm now, so we seem to be taking a risk there.  So I can see assuming ZT is better than Marvin on offense, but it's possible we aren't better off on D yet.

I agree.  The playoff potential of this team will likely lie at the feet of the defense.  If they can be a top 15 unit, I give the Bengals a real shot.  They sure looked better down the stretch (although far from good) averaging 21.6 points allowed per game.  They did that with almost no offense to speak of (no Dalton or Green).

By simply not playing the stupid zone and playing to your secondary's strengths, they should be significantly better.  It's synergy.  The better coverage on the back end allows the pass rush to get home.  Better coverage in the middle with the LBs will have the same effect.  The defense last year (early on) just gave up too many easy underneath completions and seemed to hope for the other team to get greedy and make a mistake.  That didn't work as Brees almost went 100% completions and nickel-and-dimed them all day long.  

[Catmandude123]

(07-17-2019, 09:47 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Again, I have to ask, are we counting people not being injured in 2019 as our upgrade?

The return of AD, AJ, Eifert, Lawson and others definitely improves the team in 2019. Does it let them improve enough to make the postseason is the bigger question. I think the injured players return only puts them at a middling team with little or no possibility of being able to make a run in the playoffs. My only hope is that ZT can turn around the mentality this team has shown in recent years.

[*Nately120*]

So with the narrative that Marvin gave up and coasted for 3+ years, what made him give up and why are we sure ZT will be able to avoid doing the same?

[THE PISTONS]

With 50+ Million cap space, I wish there were more player upgrades.

[*Nately120*]

(07-18-2019, 01:29 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: With 50+ Million cap space, I wish there were more player upgrades.

That's one variable that has me a bit concerned.  ZT came from the Rams and we're all about their successful model, but we aren't going to spend and make moves like the Rams, so what happens?  Does he just roll with the flow?  Does he throw a fit?  Does he convince himself (and us) that spending really isn't all that important?  

What does ZT do to avoid being Bungalized by the ownership?  Or do we just assume Marvin was a football zombie because he was a HC for so long and it has nothing to do with the Brown family and their approach to football operations?

[lone bengal]

On paper the only upgrade they made was Miller at RG and that's not saying much because Redmon was awful. The team did very little to address their needs besides relying on rookies through the draft. I would have liked them to sign at least one veteran linebacker in the offseason. With all the cap space we have there's really no excuse not to resign guys like A.J. Green, Tyler Boyd and William Jackson III.

[Circleville Guy]

(07-18-2019, 08:51 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: The best teams in the NFL at the end of the season are almost always the healthiest as well.  They were 4-1 with a pathetic defense before injuries derailed them.  And that was with an awful DC, and a conservative, predictable HC.  

I will argue that there’s an offset. Some players may be healthier, there’s also some players that are now on a decline from their prime years. Those are the best players on the team too! It’s something that almost always gets overlooked.

[Luvnit2]

(07-18-2019, 03:05 AM)Circleville Guy Wrote: The question that I have is: Have the Bengal improvements been better than the other teams improvements. You know, the teams that were already better than the Bengals. That means that the Bengals had to improve vastly for it to even matter.

Good question. But improvement for us would be not suffering injuries to key players. How will teams in our division do if?

Ben misses 5 games, JuJu misses 9 games and TE misses 12 games?
Jackson. their best WR and best TE from Ravens or 3 or 4 key defensive guys?
Mayfield misses 5 and Beckham 9 games, then their 2nd year TE misses 12.

Injuries good or bad will always be the intangible. Ben goes down and Steelers are a different team. AD may not be elite, but he is solid and our backup was not good in his absence.

So, I am hoping we can stay healthy (especially on offense) to see all Zac has planned for us offensively.

[Circleville Guy]

(07-19-2019, 06:49 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Good question. But improvement for us would be not suffering injuries to key players. How will teams in our division do if?

Ben misses 5 games, JuJu misses 9 games and TE misses 12 games?
Jackson. their best WR and best TE from Ravens or 3 or 4 key defensive guys?
Mayfield misses 5 and Beckham 9 games, then their 2nd year TE misses 12.

Injuries good or bad will always be the intangible. Ben goes down and Steelers are a different team. AD may not be elite, but he is solid and our backup was not good in his absence.

So, I am hoping we can stay healthy (especially on offense) to see all Zac has planned for us offensively.

It’s obviously always better to be healthy. I’m honestly just worn out as a fan shuffling excuses year in and year out. I’ve finally set it right in my heart that if the Bengals suck this year specifically because of the Oline that I’m finally done going through it. It seems like an obvious black hole to someone uneducated about football compared to many on here. It feels like the team should be scratching and clawing by any means to improve this hole before the season starts. If It proves to be the case and they didn’t care to fix it, I’m finally out. I’ve went decades of being laughed at by friends because of the Bengals, I can handle that. I can’t handle supporting a team that won’t try anymore though. I’ve been a diehard since the late 80’s but something is changing in me. It’s almost like a form of mental abuse that I’m about done putting myself through. I can only handle rooting for one absolutely pathetic organization and I’ll drop the Bengals before I do the Reds. Maybe I’m way off though and the line will be decent. I can understand struggling with coaching transition but this line should have been fixed a few years ago.