At what point are you OK with a total rebuild

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-23-2019, 06:52 PM)NKURyan Wrote: I was more excited about the 2015 Bengals, who were a complete team before Andy got hurt, than I was for the 2005 Bengals, who had a defense that could cause turnovers and not do much else. The '15 squad seemed destined for bigger things than the '05 team to me... until their second round QB's hand was shredded.

Same here, that D in 2005 wasn't going to win crap no matter how good the O was.

2015 was our shot and we imploded as you said in the other thread. 

We had the players in all 3 phases to win the entire thing in 2015.

[XsandOs]

(07-23-2019, 10:04 AM)ochocincos Wrote: If this team can get above .500 this year, I really hope they go "all in" for 2020 because Dunlap, Atkins, and Green don't have many more years left at their current level. 

If we are talking a run at SB, I'm afraid that window is not only shut - it's boarded and bricked over.

I think we will have to replace some of those guys as well as some of the coaches, to open a new window.

Taylor may be the next McVay, but Brown isn't Kroenke. So, I don't think we will go all in in any significant manner. We went all in, last year. So that's the extent of it.....unfortunately.

[THE PISTONS]

(07-23-2019, 02:03 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Yeah, especially when the defense knows what's coming 


Seriously, look at the turnaround by the Falcons, Bears, Rams, and Eagles (three of which went to Super Bowls) after they got rid of their version of Marv.  It is a young, creative minds game.

And spare me the Belichek talk....I know he isn't young.  

That is a good point on those teams. And aside from the Falcons...were all mediocre before the turnaround.

The Bears, Rams, and Eagles all have young QB's too.

[THE PISTONS]

(07-23-2019, 02:11 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Good point.  Like in baseball, you can't have too many holes in your lineup.  I think a better scheme on defense makes a huge difference for the LB corps and between a Jordan Evans (who did improve last year), a healthy Preston Brown, a healthy Nick Vigil, and a group of young unknowns (Pratt, Davis, Jefferson) they can be at least average.  I still wonder if there isn't a late cut that will be added to the roster here.

The offensive line is the one that is now paper thin in terms of depth, and I would rather not wait for an injury to address that.  Moving Gio for Sanbrailo makes a lot of sense, although I really like Gio and want to see him used in this offense.  

Those are, by far, our most debatable weaknesses.  The back end of our defense could be lethal if the pass rush improves.  The skill positions you mentioned are there and they aren't rookies we are counting on.  

It is just so much more fun thinking about what it will look like with all new coaches.  

I just wish we would have signed 2-3 upgrades in free agency with our $50+ million.

A guy like LJ Fort at LB that signed fairly cheaply with the Eagles would have been a nice start.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(07-22-2019, 10:54 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: He inherited about same team ML was expected to win with in 2018 by the fans in this forum???

Who hear thought the 2018 team would do anything? It seemed clear they lacked the talent in key areas and the whole vibe of the team was lethargic

[fredtoast]

(07-24-2019, 02:52 PM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: Who hear thought the 2018 team would do anything?

A lot of people.  Trading for Glenn and signing the leagues leading tackler seemed to be big new moves that the front office would not have made in the past.  Our defense had a lot of returning talent, and many thought that Lazor's changes as OC would rejuvenate the offense.  Plus Eifert was coming back.

[*ochocincos*]

(07-23-2019, 08:45 PM)XsandOs Wrote: If we are talking a run at SB, I'm afraid that window is not only shut - it's boarded and bricked over.

I think we will have to replace some of those guys as well as some of the coaches, to open a new window.

Taylor may be the next McVay, but Brown isn't Kroenke. So, I don't think we will go all in in any significant manner. We went all in, last year. So that's the extent of it.....unfortunately.

I can definitely understand this POV, as we've never seen the Bengals go "all-in" in FA like we'd think they should do. 
However, there's still a chance.
Dunlap posted 8.0 sacks last year.
Geno posted 10.0 sacks last year.
AJ was on pace for 1200+ yards and 10+ TDs last year before he got hurt.
Dalton was on pace for 3700+ yards and 30+ TDs last year before he got hurt.

I don't consider the window fully shut until the core veterans are no longer on the team or are performing poorly. Neither of which is the case right now.

I heard a quote along the lines of, "Don't wait and hope things will get better, because things may never end up that way. Take action and make it happen." I see that this can be directly applied to the Bengals FO. They wait and hope for the key role players to stay healthy and that the drafted players develop into solid-or-better players. If they really want to try to make it happen, they need to take more action.

[*ochocincos*]

(07-24-2019, 03:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: A lot of people.  Trading for Glenn and signing the leagues leading tackler seemed to be big new moves that the front office would not have made in the past.  Our defense had a lot of returning talent, and many thought that Lazor's changes as OC would rejuvenate the offense.  Plus Eifert was coming back.

Don't forget that many also thought Austin would turn the defense into a turnover machine, which is something they lacked.

[THE PISTONS]

(07-24-2019, 05:46 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Don't forget that many also thought Austin would turn the defense into a turnover machine, which is something they lacked.

Many people support every move the Bengals make. There are likely people that think Hart will be a good Tackle.

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-23-2019, 08:55 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: That is a good point on those teams. And aside from the Falcons...were all mediocre before the turnaround.

The Bears, Rams, and Eagles all have young QB's too.

Actually, Mike Smith is a great example of Marv-like performance.  Went to the playoffs 5 times and only won one playoff game.  Either way, there is lots of evidence to show that new blood at the coaching ranks can have very quick success.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-23-2019, 08:57 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I just wish we would have signed 2-3 upgrades in free agency with our $50+ million.

A guy like LJ Fort at LB that signed fairly cheaply with the Eagles would have been a nice start.

Agreed.  I am almost 100% certain they will add a cap casualty LB and, hopefully, a third tackle-type guy.  That trade with the Falcons makes a lot of sense (Gio for Sanbrailo plus a 5th rounder).  

[*ochocincos*]

(07-24-2019, 10:58 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Many people support every move the Bengals make. There are likely people that think Hart will be a good Tackle.

That's true, some do think that. It really comes down to hope. Some people hope more than others.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

The moves prior to the start of 2018 simply looked like duck tape. The biggest concern going in the season was that fact, and this was VERY clear, the team was stale, the staff was stale and the players had tuned out Merv. Sports run on emotions and energy and this team last year had little of it. This was quite obvious in 2017 and carried forward into 2018.

At least now the new staff has brought renewed energy.

[THE PISTONS]

(07-25-2019, 09:16 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Agreed.  I am almost 100% certain they will add a cap casualty LB and, hopefully, a third tackle-type guy.  That trade with the Falcons makes a lot of sense (Gio for Sanbrailo plus a 5th rounder).  

Yep. And that would be with their MO as you don't lose comp picks by signing guys that are cut.

I think the Tackle will be hard to add though as lots of teams need Tackles.

We're just in a bad spot at Tackle and terrible spot should we have a guy get injured. Glenn almost surely will be injured at some point.

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-25-2019, 12:47 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yep. And that would be with their MO as you don't lose comp picks by signing guys that are cut.

I think the Tackle will be hard to add though as lots of teams need Tackles.

We're just in a bad spot at Tackle and terrible spot should we have a guy get injured. Glenn almost surely will be injured at some point.

Agreed, but if I am a FA tackle, and might get to start here...

[Shake n Blake]

(07-23-2019, 06:57 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: My thoughts exactly.  I have no idea why there was so much venom for him from Cleveland.  He took the fall when they traded off ALL their talent for draft picks.  Now that those picks are paying off, he is the devil?   I don't get it, but I agree that I didn't want him as HC, either.  I hope he gets another shot somewhere as an OC.  Maybe Buffalo...they seem to like ex-Bengals 

Yeah I don't get it either. The Browns did Hue dirty. They intentionally tanked for picks, ala NBA and MLB, then used Hue as the scapegoat for why they lost. He got 4-5 games to prove himself once the Browns were actually supposed to be trying. During those 5 games, Todd Haley was making every effort to sabotage Hue and the offense. 

I also agree that I wouldn't want him as HC, but he shouldn't be judged by the NFL on what happened in Cleveland. He should have a job somewhere as an OC or position coach.

[fredtoast]

(07-24-2019, 10:58 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Many people support every move the Bengals make. There are likely people that think Hart will be a good Tackle.

Many people hate every move the Bengals make and will even make up lies about how we signed some guys just because no other team would want them.