QB candidates for 2020 Draft

[tBengal]

My preferences for QB

1. Tua
2. Burrow

Sizable gap to Herbert at number 3. He just doesn’t seem to have that “IT” factor I’d like to see in a QB. CBS Sports this morning has us taking Herbert at number one overall which would be disappointing with Tua and Burrow still on the board.

[*psychdoctor*]

(10-07-2019, 12:05 PM)tBengal Wrote: My preferences for QB

1. Tua
2. Burrow

Sizable gap to Herbert at number 3. He just doesn’t seem to have that “IT” factor I’d like to see in a QB. CBS Sports this morning has us taking Herbert at number one overall which would be disappointing with Tua and Burrow still on the board.

It would make me sick.  Herbert has happy feet.  He does have a strong arm but no different to me as far as style from Dalton.  Burrow is the man.  Period.  Tua I can live with.  

[Hammerstripes]

(10-07-2019, 08:25 AM)Au165 Wrote: I think the media likes Herbert better than actual NFL scouts do. To me he is going to be a mid to late 1st round pick, not the potential top QB pick we have been told.

I went back and started re watching his tape from last year and this guy is a big time project. System provides him with a lot of easy completions that make his stats and perceived accuracy a lot better than it really is. He simply does not work through reads when he has to. Poor eye discipline downfield, let's safeties track his eyes rather than looking them off. Will have to learn to work protections at the next level, a veteran center may have to make the protection calls for him year 1 and maybe 2.

With that all said he has legit arm talent. He makes some wow throws, but I think that is a little bit of the fools gold. He is going to be a project for sure. If he gets to NO, who were there scouting him this weekend, I think he could have a solid career. If he goes to a place where it's just a "guy" who will be tasked with developing I have little faith he turns out to be a long term starter.

I'm not so sure about this one.  I keep hearing the Josh Allen comps.  Back then, all you heard was how the teams loved Allen a lot more than the media does.

I did see one comment about Herbert this weekend that opened my eyes a little - some draft guy was saying that Herbert plays in an offense that limits him.  I'm not sure what to take away from that, but if its the case, he's going to be a lot better in an NFL system.

[*psychdoctor*]

(10-07-2019, 01:10 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I'm not so sure about this one.  I keep hearing the Josh Allen comps.  Back then, all you heard was how the teams loved Allen a lot more than the media does.

I did see one comment about Herbert this weekend that opened my eyes a little - some draft guy was saying that Herbert plays in an offense that limits him.  I'm not sure what to take away from that, but if its the case, he's going to be a lot better in an NFL system.

It means they narrow down the field of vision to one side...or one segment/quadrant.

[Au165]

(10-07-2019, 01:10 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I'm not so sure about this one.  I keep hearing the Josh Allen comps.  Back then, all you heard was how the teams loved Allen a lot more than the media does.

I did see one comment about Herbert this weekend that opened my eyes a little - some draft guy was saying that Herbert plays in an offense that limits him.  I'm not sure what to take away from that, but if its the case, he's going to be a lot better in an NFL system.

I'm just telling you what I see, and I'm not alone, he has been sold as the top guy since last year and he frankly isn't that guy. He doesn't have the arm or escapebility of Allen. He is big so they try to draw the parallel but it isn't there. He is similar in his inability to read a defense, but I'd say his accuracy is better than Allen in college. I was high on Allen coming out as a guy who could turn into Big Ben down the road, I believe it's in my history here if you go back far enough, but I don't see that with Herbert. To me, Herbert is a slightly more mobile EJ Manuel.

He isn't going to function in an NFL system because I don't believe he can make those reads. His eyes are killing him against bad teams right now. It's interestingly enough part of the issue Josh Allen is having but the difference is Allen is somewhat surviving with Elite running ability. To me he is QB 3/4 right now and I think he will continue to fall.

[J24]

I think the top 3 will be
Tua
Herbert
Love
In all honesty none of them really impress me as got to have it guys. Would rather draft Hurts or Burrow late in the first or in the Second.

[Big Boss]

Love is not having a good year. Is he a junior or senior?

[Hammerstripes]

(10-07-2019, 01:36 PM)Au165 Wrote: I'm just telling you what I see, and I'm not alone, he has been sold as the top guy since last year and he frankly isn't that guy. He doesn't have the arm or escapebility of Allen. He is big so they try to draw the parallel but it isn't there. He is similar in his inability to read a defense, but I'd say his accuracy is better than Allen in college. I was high on Allen coming out as a guy who could turn into Big Ben down the road, I believe it's in my history here if you go back far enough, but I don't see that with Herbert. To me, Herbert is a slightly more mobile EJ Manuel.

He isn't going to function in an NFL system because I don't believe he can make those reads. His eyes are killing him against bad teams right now. It's interestingly enough part of the issue Josh Allen is having but the difference is Allen is somewhat surviving with Elite running ability. To me he is QB 3/4 right now and I think he will continue to fall.

I have a hard time believing that someone as smart as Herbert is going to struggle mentally.  Only time will tell.

I'm lukewarm on both Tua and Herbert overall.  I'm not so sure that Chase Young/Andrew Thomas/Isiah Simmons + trading back into round 1 isn't a much better strategy.

[Au165]

(10-07-2019, 02:42 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I have a hard time believing that someone as smart as Herbert is going to struggle mentally.  Only time will tell.

I'm lukewarm on both Tua and Herbert overall.  I'm not so sure that Chase Young/Andrew Thomas/Isiah Simmons + trading back into round 1 isn't a much better strategy.

Craig Krenzel had a degree molecular genetics and he couldn't read an NFL defense, intelligence means very little. If you have never been asked to work out of a pro system and make sight adjustments then it's an uphill battle, even Mahomes redshirted a year in the NFL. RG3 is actually a really smart person but he was a two read and run guy coming out of Baylor and when he was asked to read defenses in the NFL after his injury he couldn't do it, he was forever a two read and run guy. 

[*psychdoctor*]

(10-07-2019, 04:17 PM)Au165 Wrote: Craig Krenzel had a degree molecular genetics and he couldn't read an NFL defense, intelligence means very little. If you have never been asked to work out of a pro system and make sight adjustments then it's an uphill battle, even Mahomes redshirted a year in the NFL. RG3 is actually a really smart person but he was a two read and run guy coming out of Baylor and when he was asked to read defenses in the NFL after his injury he couldn't do it, he was forever a two read and run guy. 

What scares me was A Smith was similar in that he could read one quadrant and if the WR did not create space, he would tuck and run.  He also was from Oregon system.  Hell no to Herbert.  Just Hell no.

[Au165]

(10-07-2019, 04:20 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: What scares me was A Smith was similar in that he could read one quadrant and if the WR did not create space, he would tuck and run.  He also was from Oregon system.  Hell no to Herbert.  Just Hell no.

They were much different systems then and now, and to be fair Herbert is running a system more similar to Mariota but still different. My issue is more so what is happening when the ball snaps and what he is or isn't doing with the defense to make the play successful.

[*psychdoctor*]

(10-07-2019, 04:28 PM)Au165 Wrote: They were much different systems then and now, and to be fair Herbert is running a system more similar to Mariota but still different. My issue is more so what is happening when the ball snaps and what he is or isn't doing with the defense to make the play successful.

I know he may not come out next year but the guy I am most impressed with in terms of arm strength is Eason.   He needs to work on his accuracy though.

[Au165]

(10-07-2019, 04:30 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I know he may not come out next year but the guy I am most impressed with in terms of arm strength is Eason.   He needs to work on his accuracy though.

Feels like we always do this, but the 2021 class could be special depending on who comes out this year and who comes out next year. You could have Lawrence/Fields/Eason/Ehlinger all in that class. 

[*psychdoctor*]

(10-07-2019, 04:37 PM)Au165 Wrote: Feels like we always do this, but the 2021 class could be special depending on who comes out this year and who comes out next year. You could have Lawrence/Fields/Eason/Ehlinger all in that class. 

Lawrence is suppose to be once in generation type QB.  But I really like Eason.  If you get a chance watch some of his games.  Damn, he and Burrow have the best arms...

[Au165]

(10-07-2019, 04:40 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Lawrence is suppose to be once in generation type QB.  But I really like Eason.  If you get a chance watch some of his games.  Damn, he and Burrow have the best arms...

Lawrence isn't quite what he was. The shine wore off similar to Tua after his freshman year. When coordinators get tape they make you adjust and Lawrence has looked pedestrian this year but he has high upside still. 

[DYT_Bengal]

1) Tua - I don’t think anyone disagrees here.

2) Jake Fromm - When looking at quarterbacks, my main concerns are aptitude, pocket presence, and ball touch. Everybody has forgotten Fromm because he is not flashy but when I watch his game, I get the feeling of someone who has control of the offense which what you typically see in the great quarterbacks (Manning, Elway, Brady). Throwing power, throwing velocity, and athleticism are overrated and should be seen as a threshold.

Justin Herbert is very intriguing but I’m not a fan of his game. He has size, athleticism, and zip on the ball. But he has all the marquee issues I have seen with his QB type (Keizer, Mariota,Mallett) - he can throw it fast but not always accurate and doesn’t have a strong grasp on the defense. He has not been asked to do anything I consider worth drafting in the first. I don’t like his personality for a QB - reminds me of Drew Lock. I would not draft in the first.

[J24]

(10-07-2019, 02:10 PM)Big Boss Wrote: Love is not having a good year.  Is he a junior or senior?

He isn't having the best season but it really doesn't matter if you have talent like he does. Draft community is already buzzing that   he is the next Mahomes.

[*psychdoctor*]

(10-07-2019, 02:07 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: I think the top 3 will be
Tua
Herbert
Love
In all honesty none of them really impress me as got to have it guys. Would rather draft Hurts or Burrow late in the first or in the Second.

If Burrow slides down in round 1 Bengals should grab him if they take Young, Thomas, Delpit, or Alaric Jackson or Jeudy earlier.  

Also, on some big boards which is still too early, Love is not even in top 50.  I just do not want the Bengals to settle on a good but not great QB. They already have that in Dalton.    

Imagine leaving the first round 2020 with Burrow and Thomas, or Burrown and Young.

[KillerGoose]

(10-07-2019, 01:36 PM)Au165 Wrote: I'm just telling you what I see, and I'm not alone, he has been sold as the top guy since last year and he frankly isn't that guy. He doesn't have the arm or escapebility of Allen. He is big so they try to draw the parallel but it isn't there. He is similar in his inability to read a defense, but I'd say his accuracy is better than Allen in college. I was high on Allen coming out as a guy who could turn into Big Ben down the road, I believe it's in my history here if you go back far enough, but I don't see that with Herbert. To me, Herbert is a slightly more mobile EJ Manuel.

He isn't going to function in an NFL system because I don't believe he can make those reads. His eyes are killing him against bad teams right now. It's interestingly enough part of the issue Josh Allen is having but the difference is Allen is somewhat surviving with Elite running ability. To me he is QB 3/4 right now and I think he will continue to fall.

I tend to agree with you and I am an Oregon fan. What I see on the field just doesn't excite as a pro fan as well. I do think that the offensive playcalling sucks and the offense is limiting him to a degree but I think he has some development that needs to be done before he can have success in the league.

[Goalpost]

From what I saw of Eason Saturday night, he needs to work on his touch. He throws rockets. Sometimes hard to catch balls on short passes.