QB candidates for 2020 Draft

[*ochocincos*]

(10-21-2019, 10:07 AM)psychdoctor Wrote: I just wanted to say that the Bengals will likely draft Herbert or Burrow with the first pick and not Chase Young or Thomas.  My reasoning is that the Bengals already picked a mid-round player in Finley.  I think Hurts will be there in Round 2-3.  But I do not think the Bengals will pick another mid round QB moving forward because it would cause uncertainty as to who the starter.  If Burrow is picked with first pick, it would seem the message to the team is Burrow is the man.  Never know with this Front Office though.

Finding a true franchise QB is very rare. The Bengals need someone who can extend plays given the lack of time the OL can give.
I'm having a hard time deciding on Tua vs Herbert vs Burrow right now. Each is a somewhat different style QB. I could see any of the three being picked.

[packerbacker]

Lots of good new Quarterbacks in the league this year. The Steelers, Jags, Browns, Cardinals look to have upcoming stars.

[KillerGoose]

(10-21-2019, 11:35 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I saw a comparison for Herbert that I thought was appropriate...Carson Wentz.

Wentz is more athletic than Herbert. Herbert has athleticism like pre-injury Carson Palmer. He can move but it isn't an integral part of his game whereas Wentz is very, very mobile and he is elusive. I actually think Palmer is an okay comparison for Herbert but not a 100% fit.

Herbert, to me, is somewhere between Haskins and Palmer. Herbert can move like Palmer could and has all of the arm talent that Palmer had. He is not Palmer because of his mechanical inconsistencies which leads to his accuracy struggles. He also struggles under pressure and reading defenses consistently. These are some of the same issues that Haskins had. 

[*ochocincos*]

(10-21-2019, 12:39 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Wentz is more athletic than Herbert. Herbert has athleticism like pre-injury Carson Palmer. He can move but it isn't an integral part of his game whereas Wentz is very, very mobile and he is elusive. I actually think Palmer is an okay comparison for Herbert but not a 100% fit.

Herbert, to me, is somewhere between Haskins and Palmer. Herbert can move like Palmer could and has all of the arm talent that Palmer had. He is not Palmer because of his mechanical inconsistencies which leads to his accuracy struggles. He also struggles under pressure and reading defenses consistently. These are some of the same issues that Haskins had. 

Haskins probably a good comparison. 
I don't think Palmer is a good comparison though, as Palmer was a tree who needed OL to keep him clean. Palmer also was better at going through progressions and came from a pro style offense.

[*psychdoctor*]

(10-21-2019, 12:37 PM)packerbacker Wrote: Lots of good new Quarterbacks in the league this year. The Steelers, Jags, Browns, Cardinals look to have upcoming stars.

Sledge mentioned that Jackson for Ravens was a steal in the draft.  It appears he was right.  

[KillerGoose]

(10-21-2019, 12:43 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Haskins probably a good comparison. 
I don't think Palmer is a good comparison though, as Palmer was a tree who needed OL to keep him clean. Palmer also was better at going through progressions and came from a pro style offense.

Pre-injury Palmer was surprisingly mobile. Not that this definitively dictates how mobile someone is but Palmer ran a 4.65 40 yard dash and he utilized it in college (not necessarily as a wholesale weapon, but evading defenders. He did score 4 rushing touchdowns his Heisman year). I certainly agree with the rest. Palmer had the ability to read a defense very well and was already used to playing in a pro-system. It does seem that the trend of NFL offenses is changing to be closer to what you typically see in college but Herbert still doesn't possess those traits that Palmer did.

[Au165]

(10-21-2019, 09:57 AM)psychdoctor Wrote: Aren't Tua's ankle issues just sprains?

Sure, but if you keep spraining your ankles that's a problem. QB's create power from their lower body and if he can't drive off it that could creep up relatively often in his pro career. The new tight rope procedure is effective short term but no one is sure what the long term impact is.

[Big Boss]

Burrow:

-A tape junkie. Studies film like a professional.
-Great decision-making.
-Great pocket awareness and escape ability.
-Marked improvement in accuracy and big play-making capability.
-Unequivocal leader of that LSU offense.

Is there a risk of him being another "one year wonder" that flames out quickly in the NFL? Sure. But of the QB prospects likely to declare next year, he and Tua seem to be the most polished, pro-ready QBs of the bunch. So if we're going QB with our first pick, I'd roll the dice here. The problem is Miami may now have their sights on him, given Tua's latest injury.

Herbert may have higher upside than Tua and Burrow, but he's an unrefined prospect that's going to need some work to live up to his potential. But on the flip side, he's one of those guys where the bust factor may be a bit higher. And while I don't want to label a guy I don't know, just going by his interviews he seems to have a meek personality. I've had my fill of that. Give me a QB with fire in his gut.

[*psychdoctor*]

I think the best pure passer is Eason.

I think the best arm however is Herbert. You cannot teach the cannon of arm Herbert has displayed. He could be an all-pro with the right system and team organization but not with the Bengals who tends to make players worse over time with the exception of a few players.

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-21-2019, 12:39 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Wentz is more athletic than Herbert. Herbert has athleticism like pre-injury Carson Palmer. He can move but it isn't an integral part of his game whereas Wentz is very, very mobile and he is elusive. I actually think Palmer is an okay comparison for Herbert but not a 100% fit.

Herbert, to me, is somewhere between Haskins and Palmer. Herbert can move like Palmer could and has all of the arm talent that Palmer had. He is not Palmer because of his mechanical inconsistencies which leads to his accuracy struggles. He also struggles under pressure and reading defenses consistently. These are some of the same issues that Haskins had. 

Too many times where he looks skittish when the pocket closes in and his accuracy takes a hit most of the time. 

I wish i had been able to pay closer attention to the OvW game but Eason looked pretty impressive. 

Just looked and they have the full game on youtube. Think i'll watch it over later tonight.

[*bfine32*]

Jalen Hurts is quickly becoming a bfavorite

[*Synric*]

(10-21-2019, 05:54 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Jalen Hurts is quickly becoming a bfavorite

I would like to see Hurts against more man coverage so we can see him throw more outs crossers etc... Right now he mostly runs when he sees man and it works in the Big 12.

[KillerGoose]

(10-21-2019, 05:12 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Too many times where he looks skittish when the pocket closes in and his accuracy takes a hit most of the time. 

I wish i had been able to pay closer attention to the OvW game but Eason looked pretty impressive. 

Just looked and they have the full game on youtube. Think i'll watch it over later tonight.

Eason looked really good. I was impressed with him. I admittedly focused mostly on Herbert throughout the game so I may join you and check out Eason again this week sometime.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-21-2019, 12:53 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Pre-injury Palmer was surprisingly mobile. Not that this definitively dictates how mobile someone is but Palmer ran a 4.65 40 yard dash and he utilized it in college (not necessarily as a wholesale weapon, but evading defenders. He did score 4 rushing touchdowns his Heisman year). I certainly agree with the rest. Palmer had the ability to read a defense very well and was already used to playing in a pro-system. It does seem that the trend of NFL offenses is changing to be closer to what you typically see in college but Herbert still doesn't possess those traits that Palmer did.

Wut

[RiverRat13]

Fun video from Joe Burrow before he transferred - https://buckeyeswire.usatoday.com/2018/03/28/must-watch-joe-burrow-goes-all-out-to-win-tire-tug-of-war/

That's a starting linebacker that he beat.

[KillerGoose]

(10-21-2019, 08:51 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Wut

He was. Now, I’m not saying he was Russell Wilson or anything like that but coming out of college, he could move around and run if needed (again, he ran a 4.65 forty).

This is all I can really find but it is some highlights of his senior season. There are some plays in here where he evaded defenders, runs away from pressure and makes throws on the run etc.

https://youtu.be/bxjWbTRc_VA

I say surprising because when I think of statues, I think of guys like Brady. Brady has wonderful pocket presence but he isn’t going to really run away from anyone.. Coming out of college, Palmer could run a bit if he needed.

[tBengal]

Saw a CBS mock having us take Tua#1 overall and trading Green for a first and then taking offensive line. I’d like that.

It’s still Tua or Burrow for me but Eason is climbing the ladder.

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-21-2019, 08:55 PM)RiverRat13 Wrote: Fun video from Joe Burrow before he transferred - https://buckeyeswire.usatoday.com/2018/03/28/must-watch-joe-burrow-goes-all-out-to-win-tire-tug-of-war/

That's a starting linebacker that he beat.

Now THAT'S what i like to see in a QB. A burning desire to win a competition. Not just a want, a lot of QBs have that. An intense, blazing desire to win every single time. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-21-2019, 09:12 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: He was. Now, I’m not saying he was Russell Wilson or anything like that but coming out of college, he could move around and run if needed (again, he ran a 4.65 forty).

This is all I can really find but it is some highlights of his senior season. There are some plays in here where he evaded defenders, runs away from pressure and makes throws on the run etc.

https://youtu.be/bxjWbTRc_VA

I say surprising because when I think of statues, I think of guys like Brady. Brady has wonderful pocket presence but he isn’t going to really run away from anyone.. Coming out of college, Palmer could run a bit if he needed.

He did that with the Bengals. I just think, after a while, when they let the line go to shit, coupled with how mom and pop the Bengals do things, he finally said F it and this pathetic organization. And i don't blame him one damn bit. 

He didn't let me down. The Bengals let him down with their archaic, backwards, shit show effort in building an NFL team. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-21-2019, 09:30 PM)tBengal Wrote: Saw a CBS mock having us take Tua#1 overall and trading Green for a first and then taking offensive line. I’d like that.

It’s still Tua or Burrow for me but Eason is climbing the ladder.

That's exactly what i'm hoping for. Not Tua, a trade that gets them another first so they can get a T or G as well as a QB.

Just prepare yourself for the inevitable let down when they don't pull off a single trade that will get them any kind of decent pick.