Record prediction.....open poll

[NKURyan]

(08-20-2019, 11:36 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Given that key starters missed much of last season, it is easy to assume that last year's team would have produced more wins had those starters played more. So I went with 9 wins.

If the team stays relatively healthy 9 wins should be the bottom side, if this coaching staff is as good as Marvin's.

I get the thought process, but I'm not 100% sure I agree with it. The defense was so bad last year (particularly towards the middle of the season) I'm not sure if they win any of those games even with Andy, AJ, Eifert, etc. 

I think they were very fortunate at the start of last year. I loved the 4-1 start as much as anyone but they were literally a play away from losing 3 of those games. Without the pick at the end against Indy, they lose. They barely pulled it out on a last second TD against Atlanta. They had to score 24 points in the 4th quarter with 2 defensive TDs just to beat a bad Miami team. That 5-3 start could have easily been 2-6. Would we be setting the bar for ZT at 8+ wins then?

...and I made the same prediction of 9 wins as you do, so I don't think it's completely out of line. Just my two cents on the rationale.

[*Nately120*]

(08-20-2019, 11:41 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Damn straight 16-0 b17ch3s!! "We" won't even have to punt this year. New scoring record. New record record...19-0 baby!! Souuuuupppperrrrrrbowlzzzzzzzzzz!!

Dalton? MVP
Mixon? NFL rushing champ, 2,500 yds rushing and 3,000 from scrimmage.
AJ? 1,600 yds in half a year. 
First team to have 22 players All Pro!
Coach of the year, rookie of the year.

We got the rings. We got the money. We got all of it!

Well that's a bit much...but honestly, this notion that we are going to automatically improve and teams like the Browns and Raiders and Jets can't improve because they suck is optimism that reminds me of well, over confident Browns fans we are all sick of hearing.  

I get it, optimism.  Teams that are better than us are due to take a step back and teams that are worse than us are going to still be bad.  The Bengals, an organization that has an instantly-IRed 1st round pick and does nothing in free agency is going to be the one team that turns it around.  I'm not saying we should all complain and assume a 6 win season, but at what point does our optimism look like we are just boasting over nothing?

[NKURyan]

(08-20-2019, 11:42 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It's funny you mention that, because some people on the board act like Marvin was a horrible coach...but as you point out...with those guys healthy, Marvin might have won 9 games or so.

I do think losing Boling and Jonah are HUGE losses. Lets hope AJ only misses a game or two.

As I posted above (was typing while you posted)... I think Marvin got VERY lucky that things fell his way at the start of the season. That 5-3 start could have easily been 2-6, and I don't think that's any more unreasonable than saying he "might" have won 9 games or so. By the time the Miami game rolled around it seemed pretty clear that they probably weren't who they teased they might be, and I don't think that's just because of the Eifert injury at that point.

[THE PISTONS]

(08-20-2019, 11:51 PM)NKURyan Wrote: I get the thought process, but I'm not 100% sure I agree with it. The defense was so bad last year (particularly towards the middle of the season) I'm not sure if they win any of those games even with Andy, AJ, Eifert, etc. 

I think they were very fortunate at the start of last year. I loved the 4-1 start as much as anyone but they were literally a play away from losing 3 of those games. Without the pick at the end against Indy, they lose. They barely pulled it out on a last second TD against Atlanta. They had to score 24 points in the 4th quarter with 2 defensive TDs just to beat a bad Miami team. That 5-3 start could have easily been 2-6. Would we be setting the bar for ZT at 8+ wins then?

...and I made the same prediction of 9 wins as you do, so I don't think it's completely out of line. Just my two cents on the rationale.

It's weird too because when AJ and Andy got hurt, I think opposition knew they didn't need to score 40 points to beat us and adjusted their strategy some.

The Falcons game was pretty fun last year. The defense's were horrible. But what a show offensively. That game gave me hope for the season.

Then Eifert got hurt and our offense stopped producing as highly. It seems like the Eifert injury was the turning point. Defenses focuses on him a decent bit. THAT'S where a guy like Ross stepping up would have been huge.

[*Nately120*]

(08-20-2019, 11:55 PM)NKURyan Wrote: As I posted above (was typing while you posted)... I think Marvin got VERY lucky that things fell his way at the start of the season. That 5-3 start could have easily been 2-6, and I don't think that's any more unreasonable than saying he "might" have won 9 games or so. By the time the Miami game rolled around it seemed pretty clear that they probably weren't who they teased they might be, and I don't think that's just because of the Eifert injury at that point.

If our early-season wins were a mirage (and there was some luck there, to be sure) then that should make us even less hopeful for 2019 shouldn't it?  A 2-6 start to last season and if we have the same end we are looking at what....3-13 or so?  Even with moving on from Marvin it would be hard to be optimistic at all after that.

[BengalChris]

(08-20-2019, 11:51 PM)NKURyan Wrote: I get the thought process, but I'm not 100% sure I agree with it. The defense was so bad last year (particularly towards the middle of the season) I'm not sure if they win any of those games even with Andy, AJ, Eifert, etc. 

I think they were very fortunate at the start of last year. I loved the 4-1 start as much as anyone but they were literally a play away from losing 3 of those games. Without the pick at the end against Indy, they lose. They barely pulled it out on a last second TD against Atlanta. They had to score 24 points in the 4th quarter with 2 defensive TDs just to beat a bad Miami team. That 5-3 start could have easily been 2-6. Would we be setting the bar for ZT at 8+ wins then?

...and I made the same prediction of 9 wins as you do, so I don't think it's completely out of line. Just my two cents on the rationale.

The 5-3 start was a 5-3 start and it wasn't 2-6. Could also point out that they had the Carolina game in hand until the 4th quarter.

Just remember that Marvin was the only coach to ever have a winning record under Mike Brown. He deserves more credit than many give him. That said, it was time for him to go.

Is the new coach better than Marv? I don't know, but he's going to need to get wins to show that he is.

[NKURyan]

(08-20-2019, 11:53 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Well that's a bit much...but honestly, this notion that we are going to automatically improve and teams like the Browns and Raiders and Jets can't improve because they suck is optimism that reminds me of well, over confident Browns fans we are all sick of hearing.  

I get it, optimism.  Teams that are better than us are due to take a step back and teams that are worse than us are going to still be bad.  The Bengals, an organization that has an instantly-IRed 1st round pick and does nothing in free agency is going to be the one team that turns it around.  I'm not saying we should all complain and assume a 6 win season, but at what point does our optimism look like we are just boasting over nothing?

I don't think optimism and boasting are remotely the same thing. Optimism is the *hope* that things might work out (which in the NFL is always possible), while boasting is a *conviction* that things will work out. Personally, I think any fan of a team should be able to find some optimism, because if you can't then what's the point of any of this, but I don't see anyone here boasting.

These boards have an interesting dichotomy, for sure. Speaking in general terms and not calling you in particular out, I think there is a group of us who *hope* for the best, and I think there is a group that has a *conviction* that they won't. Me personally, I hope I don't ever fall into that latter group because it just seems so... defeatist, I guess? And it's not like I don't understand all of the shortcomings that come along with this franchise, I've suffered as much as any fan in the NFL (lol)... but I just gotta have some tiny bit of belief, and if that makes me a sucker or an idiot so be it. At least I get to enjoy the lead up to the football season instead of dread that some on here (not pointing the finger at you!) seem to have.

[NKURyan]

(08-20-2019, 11:57 PM)Nately120 Wrote: If our early-season wins were a mirage (and there was some luck there, to be sure) then that should make us even less hopeful for 2019 shouldn't it?  A 2-6 start to last season and if we have the same end we are looking at what....3-13 or so?  Even with moving on from Marvin it would be hard to be optimistic at all after that.

You could look at it that way, I suppose. I guess I'd look at it more in terms of how many games were they in that were actually winnable last year, regardless of how those bounces ended up going (if that makes sense). I look at last year's results and see 11 games I'd say they were competitive in. There are no moral victories in the NFL, but I think I can use that to estimate how competitive they might be this year.

It's not an exact science or anything, lol.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-20-2019, 11:13 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I said 8-8, but god forbid I not be optimistic enough for you.  How many games should I say we win?


PS - we are on a 3-year losing streak in case you hadn't noticed.  This team is negative.  This is the nature of fandom though, people are supposed to be optimistic that we are going to go from 6 wins to 10+ while simultaneously saying that Browns fans thinking they can go from 7 wins to 10+ are delusional jerks who need to shut up.

Fandom...it's a hell of a drug.

I just don't get the negative ways especially after the shitty coaching we have seen for years.

I like what i have seen from this coaching staff....

FOR ONCE SINCE WYCHE!!!!

[NKURyan]

(08-20-2019, 11:58 PM)BengalChris Wrote: The 5-3 start was a 5-3 start and it wasn't 2-6. Could also point out that they had the Carolina game in hand until the 4th quarter.

Just remember that Marvin was the only coach to ever have a winning record under Mike Brown. He deserves more credit than many give him. That said, it was time for him to go.

Is the new coach better than Marv? I don't know, but he's going to need to get wins to show that he is.

I mean this is the same thread where people are saying "well I think they might have won 9 or 10 games last year if so-and-so doesn't happen", so I don't think it's unfair to point it out. "The 6-10 finish was a 6-10 finish and wasn't 9-7."

Are we really going to call our brand new and incredibly young head coach a disappointment if he doesn't turn a 6 win team with a god awful defense into a 9 win team overnight? I'm just not sure I can buy that, sorry.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-21-2019, 12:15 AM)NKURyan Wrote: I mean this is the same thread where people are saying "well I think they might have won 9 or 10 games last year if so-and-so doesn't happen", so I don't think it's unfair to point it out. "The 6-10 finish was a 6-10 finish and wasn't 9-7."

Are we really going to call our brand new and incredibly young head coach a disappointment if he doesn't turn a 6 win team with a god awful defense into a 9 win team overnight? I'm just not sure I can buy that, sorry.

I do like what i have seen from Taylor and the coaching staff so far though.

The D looked bad under Lou in the first PS game, better in the second game.

The O looked great under Taylor/Callahan in the first game early, bad in the second.

I just think the team is growing and as I said earlier will take some time, but the coaching has looked decent early.

Seeing the players respond in a good way is a big deal.

[*Nately120*]

(08-21-2019, 12:12 AM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I just don't get the negative ways especially after the shitty coaching we have seen for years.

I like what i have seen from this coaching staff....

FOR ONCE SINCE WYCHE!!!!

Perhaps some may see calling our most successful coach in franchise history "shitty" and claiming we are instantly going to be better without a guy who at least got our woebegone franchise to the playoffs 6 times in 7 years as being negative.

I'm glad we moved on from Marvin, but the guy won 131 games here and apparently the optimistic take is that Marvin isn't fit to lick the boots of a HC who runs a good practice, compliments the hell out of Bobby Hart, and claims a guy who is going to miss the whole season is "dinged up."  Again, I wish we had moved on from Mavin sooner, but I don't see how me waiting to declare "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" is particularly negative.  

(08-21-2019, 12:15 AM)NKURyan Wrote: Are we really going to call our brand new and incredibly young head coach a disappointment if he doesn't turn a 6 win team with a god awful defense into a 9 win team overnight? I'm just not sure I can buy that, sorry.

I know I'm not...then again, I'm not convinced ZT is already leaps and bounds better than Marvin.  I expect some sort of growing pains, because as enthused as he and the player and fans are, the guy got a huge promotion to come here.  He's learning on the job.  Thrown into the deep end and so on.  

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-20-2019, 11:53 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Well that's a bit much...but honestly, this notion that we are going to automatically improve and teams like the Browns and Raiders and Jets can't improve because they suck is optimism that reminds me of well, over confident Browns fans we are all sick of hearing.  

I get it, optimism.  Teams that are better than us are due to take a step back and teams that are worse than us are going to still be bad.  The Bengals, an organization that has an instantly-IRed 1st round pick and does nothing in free agency is going to be the one team that turns it around.  I'm not saying we should all complain and assume a 6 win season, but at what point does our optimism look like we are just boasting over nothing?

Most (all) of the blind optimism is just boasting over nothing. I just don't understand those that can brush off previous years like yesterdays dust and have a positive outlook on a team like this one, with nothing to back it up. I was that way up until a few years ago but at some point...doesn't reality and past results have to slap the positive taste out of your mouth?

I'll be there watching and rooting just like they will. But i'm not going to expect something that i haven't seen in almost 3 decades, even with a new head coach and new players. When i see it, then i'll believe it.

[*Nately120*]

(08-21-2019, 12:30 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Most (all) of the blind optimism is just boasting over nothing. I just don't understand those that can brush off previous years like yesterdays dust and have a positive outlook on a team like this one, with nothing to back it up. I was that way up until a few years ago but at some point...doesn't reality and past results have to slap the positive taste out of your mouth?

I'll be there watching and rooting just like they will. But i'm not going to expect something that i haven't seen in almost 3 decades, even with a new head coach and new players. When i see it, then i'll believe it.

That seems fair to me.  The Bengals are in prove-it mode, and they proved they were at least willing to let Marvin walk (I know we want to believe Mike Brown suddenly woke up and kicked him out on his ass, but I'm not betting on it) so there is that.  

I didn't doubt the Bengals when they were making the playoffs year after year, and I'm not going to give them a pass because they are now on a 3 year losing trend.  The odd truth to it is that teams we generally scoff at like the Bills, Jaguars, Raiders, Dolphins, Titans, and Lions all have more recent winning and playoff seasons than we do...and we've only had a 3 year slide.  We've got to earn back some faith, so what?  So be it.

[JWW1971]

I predict a 9-7 season, hope for a bit more though

[Millhouse]

7-9

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-20-2019, 11:03 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I assume if the Steelers sweep us this year we are going to be quick to call it a "Dalton problem" fair or otherwise.

I look at it as more of a “Big Ben” problem. He’s owned us his entire career. Especially at Paul Brow...Heinz Field West.

[Aquapod770]

Offensive line has gotten worse.

Linebackers were as bad as possible last year, so they can only improve...right?

There is a lot of talent on this team still, but I think the O-line is going to be our undoing.

6 wins.

[Luvnit2]

(08-21-2019, 12:15 AM)NKURyan Wrote: I mean this is the same thread where people are saying "well I think they might have won 9 or 10 games last year if so-and-so doesn't happen", so I don't think it's unfair to point it out. "The 6-10 finish was a 6-10 finish and wasn't 9-7."

Are we really going to call our brand new and incredibly young head coach a disappointment if he doesn't turn a 6 win team with a god awful defense into a 9 win team overnight? I'm just not sure I can buy that, sorry.

How did a coach (ML) many disrespect do in year one?

https://www.bengals.com/history/years/2002

I will help you, read above. He took a team from 2-14 to 8-8, yet some fans think too much to ask for ZT to take a team from 6-10 to 9 or 10 wins year one? A team decimated by injury to key players in 2018?

It confuses me. If he is incredible as you state, we should expect a 4 to 6 game improvement in my mind.

FYI..Our 1st round pick in 2003 did not start, it was Carson Palmer so lose that excuse also.

[lone bengal]

(08-21-2019, 09:53 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: How did a coach (ML) many disrespect do in year one?

https://www.bengals.com/history/years/2002

I will help you, read above. He took a team from 2-14 to 8-8, yet some fans think too much to ask for ZT to take a team from 6-10 to 9 or 10 wins year one? A team decimated by injury to key players in 2018?

It confuses me. If he is incredible as you state, we should expect a 4 to 6 game improvement in my mind.

FYI..Our 1st round pick in 2003 did not start, it was Carson Palmer so lose that excuse also.

Marvin did a great job in 2003 that was a fun team to watch I’ll never forget when they beat the Chiefs. Ultimately Taylor’s success will be based on if he can win that elusive playoff game not what he does in year one. I feel like I’ll have a little more patience this season when watching the Bengals. Last season was infuriating because you were watching a coach in his 16th season who still couldn’t get the job done.