Week #3 Giants Up and down

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(08-24-2019, 01:19 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: This post drips with awesome sauce. It’s true: Andy Dalton rarely has time in the pocket to go through his entire progression of receivers. It takes five to six seconds for a wide receiver to get into position for a deep ball and if the defensive line collapses the pocket in three seconds then Andy has to immediately go to his short route checkdown receiver or tuck the ball and run if that's even possible.

But this speaks to the Offensive system itself as well. If you have a weak OL you will never be able to go through all the reads, it has to accommodate the skills or lack of skills on the team. Which also comes back to the teams negligence of the OL; they knew they had a QB that had to have a solid OL as he could not “carry” without one

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(08-24-2019, 01:27 PM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: But this speaks to the Offensive system itself as well. If you have a weak OL you will never be able to go through all the reads, it has to accommodate the skills or lack of skills on the team. Which also comes back to the teams negligence of the OL; they knew they had a QB that had to have a solid OL as he could not “carry” without one

That’s exactly right. Look at the Patriots as the exemplar of offensive line play. That’s where Bill Belichick starts every year: In the trenches. In fact, emphasis on line play is the hallmark of all successful coaches.

[NKURyan]

(08-24-2019, 01:57 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: That’s exactly right.  Look at the Patriots as the exemplar of offensive line play.  That’s where Bill Belichick starts every year: In the trenches.  In fact, emphasis on line play is the hallmark of all successful coaches.

To be fair, 3 of their last 5 first round choices have been spent on offensive lineman. One was a gigantic bust (along with the second round pick that year, also an offensive lineman), one hasn't really found his footing in the NFL yet, and one has yet to play a snap in the NFL. They also traded a first round pick for a starting OT and a lower pick. I think the Bengals *do* put an emphasis on building the offensive line, they've just had a pretty bad run of luck there. I don't think the impact that guys like Willie Anderson and Andrew Whitworth had on the team is lost on them.

[BengalChris]

Just finished watching the game.

Down
Dugas - wears Ogbuehi's number and was channeling Ogbuehi all night.
Redmond - Not going to make the squad.
Driskel - there's no room for him in the QB room. The other QBs are just playing better all around.
Sharp - no enough to make the cut I'm afraid.
Trayveon Williams - hasn't shown enough and won't be showing anymore during preseason to make the 53. PS

Up
Malone
Core
Anderson
Uzomah
Dolegala
Finley
Damion Willis
Ellis - guy just does his job and has been available, traits Trayveon hasn't exhibited.
Bryant - Has potential, PS.

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-24-2019, 12:49 PM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: The happy feet comes from lack of trust in the offensive line. As someone said, "Dalton will make two reads and then freak out." This is entirely based on him not trusting his offensive line. That QB clock is shortened and that paranoia sets it. No, this isn't taking an issue away from Dalton. Dalton has to be able to forgive and forget. You see it from the best QBs (ala Rodgers/Roethlisberger) Heck, in the case of Big Ben, I've seen him not only get destroyed in the pocket but make some of the worst throws I've ever seen a QB make (especially a SB winner). Dalton's timing, his QB clock is shortened and this just goes to my personal issue, which is lack of confidence.

This can be changed with new personnel, more time with that personnel and of course, a good ol' pat in the back. 

But he's done it his whole career. He's never been known as one that can manipulate the pocket. He just doesn't have that particular awareness, whether it's just how he's always done it or simply doesn't have the ability.

(08-24-2019, 01:19 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: This post drips with awesome sauce.  It’s true: Andy Dalton rarely has time in the pocket to go through his entire progression of receivers.  It takes five to six seconds for a wide receiver to get into position for a deep ball and if the defensive line collapses the pocket in three seconds then Andy has to immediately go to his short route checkdown receiver or tuck the ball and run if that's even possible.

Give any WR 5-6 seconds and they will be 50+ yards away from the QB before he even releases the ball. 

Deep passes are normally thrown inside 3.5 seconds. Probably most around 2.5 to 3 seconds. 

QBs should have an automatic clock in their head so that when that 3 second mark hits, they start moving, whether it's climbing the pocket or moving laterally to get more space. 

Some QBs automatically start climbing the pocket as soon as their back foot hits the mark and their first read isn't open. 

[fredtoast]

(08-24-2019, 01:27 PM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote:  Which also comes back to the teams negligence of the OL;

Why do people keep saying stuff like this?

3 of our last 5 first round picks have been O-line plus we traded for one of the highest paid OTs in the league.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-23-2019, 05:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This applies to ALL coaches.

Even Marv? You telling me Marv was intense with his players?

[Luvnit2]

(08-25-2019, 04:24 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Even Marv? You telling me Marv was intense with his players?

I have never met a football coach who lacked intensity. Some just show it in different ways and don't humiliate players in public

But back on topic we will have 2 rookies TO start WEEK #1 Jordan and Willis. So congrats to them both

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-25-2019, 04:59 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I have never met a football coach who lacked intensity. Some just show it in different ways and don't humiliate players in public

But back on topic we will have 2 rookies start Jordan and Willis. So congrats to them both

Believe they both deserved it too. Jordan has long arms, is strong and is really athletic for a big man.

Willis has lit it up all Offseason. He was our best Receiver all year.

[Luvnit2]

(08-25-2019, 05:36 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote:
Believe they both deserved it too. Jordan has long arms, is strong and is really athletic for a big man.

Willis has lit it up all Offseason. He was our best Receiver all year.

 Agree

[Passepartout]

He could be picking up the slack due to A.J. Green frequently not as good as he used to be when injured.

[Luvnit2]

(08-25-2019, 09:51 PM)Passepartout Wrote: He could be picking up the slack due to A.J. Green frequently not as good as he used to be when injured.

Willis will benefit by not getting the defense to game plan for him like AJ commands every game he plays.

AJ is still great when healthy. Now Boyd, he will get more attention so want to see if he can handle it.

But hopefully Willis can make them pay if they don't double team him.

[The Caped Crusader]

(08-25-2019, 12:58 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: But he's done it his whole career. He's never been known as one that can manipulate the pocket. He just doesn't have that particular awareness, whether it's just how he's always done it or simply doesn't have the ability.


Give any WR 5-6 seconds and they will be 50+ yards away from the QB before he even releases the ball. 

Deep passes are normally thrown inside 3.5 seconds. Probably most around 2.5 to 3 seconds. 

QBs should have an automatic clock in their head so that when that 3 second mark hits, they start moving, whether it's climbing the pocket or moving laterally to get more space. 

Some QBs automatically start climbing the pocket as soon as their back foot hits the mark and their first read isn't open. 

I don't disagree. 

I think it also comes from lack of situational training. I know many QBs, particularly good ones, do a lot of drills which involve breaking down of the pocket. The main one that comes to mind is Rodgers. I know in his case, receivers are not only supposed to come back when he breaks the pocket but find a sideline. Some coach differently. 

I know last year, Dalton showed a few times his ability to break the pocket and find an open man (in particular, his touchdown pass to Tyler Boyd). I think if taught, taught correctly, he can do that. 

If similar issues continue under ZT, than yes, clearly this is a fundamental problem with Dalton. However, Marvin is old school and it could be entirely up to his philosophy. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-25-2019, 09:57 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Willis will benefit by not getting the defense to game plan for him like AJ commands every game he plays.

AJ is still great when healthy. Now Boyd, he will get more attention so want to see if he can handle it.

But hopefully Willis can make them pay if they don't double team him.

Agree with everything you say here. Should be interesting that is for sure. 

Taylor knows Receivers and Bicknell is a good coach so it might turn out just fine.