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(08-25-2019, 11:14 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Definitely.
People are in the honeymoon phase with Taylor so every move the Bengals make they think is new and innovative.
re: Willis starting - Malone, Core, and Erickson are #5 guys on most teams. Ross has been hurt all preseason. Willis has actually produced in games and practice. Tate is hurt.
This isn't sending a message. And having an UDFA come in and win a starting job basically shows you don't have a lot of quality depth at that position. Maybe IF Willis won the job year 2 or 3...Our WR's outside Green and Boyd were bad last year. Terrible PFF rankings.
Price was bad at C last year. Hopkins was below average. He was terrible as a starter at Guard. He's also 27. Price has the chance to develop. I doubt that Hopkins will get a lot better. IF Marvin made this move, it would be holding a young guy down. We saw this said over and over when Ross didn't play as a rookie.
MJ winning a starting job? I like it, but Westerman is apparently bad. Jerry was out of the league last year. Boling retired.
I think these moves we're seeing, while on the surface look good...they show we lack a lot of high-end talent on the roster. UDFA's don't win starting jobs as a rookie on most good teams.
But Marvin already started Price. Context is critical here.....
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(08-25-2019, 11:03 PM)Synric Wrote: Flanker is the receiver lined up off the line. While yes it interchanges from right to left side...the flanker is usually on the right why? Most QBs are right handed so it gives that side an easier release.
You misunderstood me. My point was...as i said, those letters are field designations, as you've pointed out twice by telling me where on the field it is.
Those letters aren't for the players as AJ Green lines up at split end, flanker, slot and whereever else the coaching staff wants him to line up.
So Nate saying that Willis is a perfect X (as a fill in for Green) and you saying AJ is a Z (at least thats what it looked like you were saying) isn't necesssarily incorrect, but it's not correct either.
I was just saying you should stop calling AJ, Willis, Boyd, X-Z-slot and so forth as they line up at multiple positions thoughout the game.
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(08-25-2019, 11:06 PM)Nately120 Wrote: This has me scratching my head a bit, too. If Marvin benched a 2nd year guy for a scrapheap vet wouldn't we be on his case for refusing to allow young guys to develop?
Suffice it to say, Marv would play guys (for a number of reasons) longer than he should have, based on their performance and, in turn, would keep a guy on the bench longer than he should have (again, for a number of reasons).
It disingenuous to pigeonhole him and say he did one thing while not doing the other.
It's hard to say for certain that he wouldn't have given MJ the start at OG, because Boling retired. It is pretty certain that he would not have started Willis, because Malone and Core have been here longer and they have more game experience.
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(08-26-2019, 12:56 AM)Whatever Wrote: They went into the draft hoping Ragnew would be there, and he wasn't, so they reached for the next best C out of need. Stuff like this is why you don't reach for need and don't go into the draft absolutely having to draft X position unless you're in the Top 5.
(08-26-2019, 01:06 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: I praise Tobin for his success and lay into him for his failures. We've been told that he's the de facto GM, and that became crystal clear in the 2017 draft.
The Price pick was just another example why this team needs to stop being frugal in free agency. Everyone in the world knew we were going for a center, so I knew it was unlikely we were going to get Ragnow. The Bengals convinced themselves that Price was just as good, I personally preferred James Daniels over Price.
Price is as good as Raganow.
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(08-25-2019, 04:23 PM)jj22 Wrote: Thoughts on Price being benched. It would never have happened under Marvin.
Cedric Ogbuehi and John Ross beg to differ.
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(08-26-2019, 11:46 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Suffice it to say, Marv would play guys (for a number of reasons) longer than he should have, based on their performance and, in turn, would keep a guy on the bench longer than he should have (again, for a number of reasons).
It disingenuous to pigeonhole him and say he did one thing while not doing the other.
It's hard to say for certain that he wouldn't have given MJ the start at OG, because Boling retired. It is pretty certain that he would not have started Willis, because Malone and Core have been here longer and they have more game experience.
I agree 100% with this.
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(08-26-2019, 03:19 PM)Wyche Wrote: I agree 100% with this.
I disagree.
In 2010 Andre Caldwell was an experienced starter, but Marvin played rookie Jordan Shipley in front of him.
And I am sure I can find plenty of other examples. Many of the complaints people have about Marvin just are not true.
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(08-26-2019, 03:19 PM)Wyche Wrote: I agree 100% with this.
But, the examples are guys like Maualuga and Peko, but it's not like the Bengals had a better player on the bench. That's the thing. It's not like management went out and got a better starter who Marvin then refused to play.
Ross was a 1st Round pick that rode the Bench. It took Kirkpatrick what 3-4 years to start. Heck...he barely played the 1st couple years. Dennard took some time.
If anything, history shows that Marvin was hard on 1st Round picks early on.
Then guys like Bodine are cited as examples, but it's not like we had a better Center behind the 4th Round pick. Management painted him into a corner on Bodine by not upgrading.
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(08-26-2019, 04:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I disagree.
In 2010 Andre Caldwell was an experienced starter, but Marvin played rookie Jordan Shipley in front of him.
And I am sure I can find plenty of other examples. Many of the complaints people have about Marvin just are not true.
I've never fully understood the "Marvin doesn't play rookies" bit.
Billy Price
Andy Dalton
A.J. Green
Carlos Dunlap
Keith Rivers
Leon Hall
Tyler Eifert
Jordan Shipley
Tyler Boyd
Rey Maualuga
Joe Mixon
Jeremy Hill
Giovanni Bernard
Russell Bodine
Jermaine Gresham
Pat Sims
Odell Thurman
Chris Henry
There are many others but if the rookies were talented enough, they got playing time.
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This is probably a good reason why Hopkins won the starting job at Center.
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(08-26-2019, 07:39 PM)Synric Wrote: This is probably a good reason why Hopkins won the starting job at Center.
I saw that. Good for him. He was really bad at guard 2 years ago but maybe center is his calling.
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(08-26-2019, 07:39 PM)Synric Wrote: This is probably a good reason why Hopkins won the starting job at Center.
that really doesn't support a lot of the narrative going on around here. I hope Price breaks into the starting lineup but I hope it's at RG.
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(08-26-2019, 07:39 PM)Synric Wrote: This is probably a good reason why Hopkins won the starting job at Center.
Anyone know what his run blocking grade was compared to Price's?
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(08-26-2019, 12:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Cedric Ogbuehi and John Ross beg to differ.
Not when they were supposedly playing good as ZT keeps saying about Price.
Both of those players you mentioned obviously struggled. Price would still be considered too much of an upgrade over Bodine to even think his seat was hot.
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(08-26-2019, 08:44 PM)bfine32 Wrote: that really doesn't support a lot of the narrative going on around here. I hope Price breaks into the starting lineup but I hope it's at RG.
That would be a good spot for an attacking type of blocker, like Price. And, he was an All-American at RG, before they asked him to move over to Center.
(08-26-2019, 08:53 PM)mallorian69 Wrote: Anyone know what his run blocking grade was compared to Price's?
I don't know, but I'm thinking that there's likely a sever drop off in Hopkins' run blocking grade compared to his pass blocker rating. Price's strength is as an aggressive drive blocker. No better place for him to do that, than at his original position from College, Right Guard.
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I hope Hopkins gets a huge signing contract next time.
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(08-26-2019, 09:11 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That would be a good spot for an attacking type of blocker, like Price. And, he was an All-American at RG, before they asked him to move over to Center.
I don't know, but I'm thinking that there's likely a sever drop off in Hopkins' run blocking grade compared to his pass blocker rating. Price's strength is as an aggressive drive blocker. No better place for him to do that, than at his original position from College, Right Guard.
I don't see how any OL has a good run blocking grade in preseason. Our run blocking seemed non existent.
2024 may go on record as one of most underperforming teams in Bengal history. Bengal's FO has major work to do on defensive side of the ball. I say tag and trade Tee Higgins in 2025 to start with the rebuild.
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(08-26-2019, 09:53 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I don't see how any OL has a good run blocking grade in preseason. Our run blocking seemed non existent.
Michael Jordan was the best run blocking linemen on the team but didnt have as high pass blocking grade.
Cordy Glenn rated as the top tackle this preseason in pass protection with a grade of 86.
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(08-26-2019, 09:05 PM)jj22 Wrote: Not when they were supposedly playing good as ZT keeps saying about Price.
Both of those players you mentioned obviously struggled. Price would still be considered too much of an upgrade over Bodine to even think his seat was hot.
Price last year played basically worse than Bodine did here overall and Bodine was bad.
Price and Ross had about equally bad PFF rated seasons last year. Plain and simple...Price was terrible. Now this year he loses his starting job. And you know that had their performance been even a little close, ZT would go with the younger, higher pick.
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Pats may be taking a huge hit at center.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27472278/patriots-c-andrews-season-jeopardy
I do hope he recovers to at least have a normal life. I know has nothing to do with us other than Pats will not be place to look for help on the OL after cuts.
2024 may go on record as one of most underperforming teams in Bengal history. Bengal's FO has major work to do on defensive side of the ball. I say tag and trade Tee Higgins in 2025 to start with the rebuild.
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