Its evident ZT doesn't care what Rd you were drafted

[XenoMorph]

(08-25-2019, 08:39 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: I did not hear a thing about Ross starting or not starting I guess they are still making this choice. I will say when AJ gets back AJ Boyd and D-Will is going to be tough to cover.

well Ross just coming back to practice so    They probly want to make sure He can go before saying he will go.

[fredtoast]

(08-25-2019, 10:47 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Seeing as Marvin benched Cedric and Fisher last year I would think he should be used to seeing his high draft picks ride the pine by now.  As for Ross, didn't we hold it against Marvin that he kept Ross on the bench so much?  Now benching Ross (assuming ZT even does that) is a sign of a good coach?  I can't keep this stuff straight.

That is the way it works around here.

Complain about Marvin not playing first round picks then praise Taylor for not playing first round picks.

[fredtoast]

(08-26-2019, 11:33 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Absolutely true!  When was the last time Cincinnati signed a big name free agent to fill a vacancy?  Dexter Jackson?  Deltha O’Neal?

Last year they signed the leagues leading tackler at LB and traded for one of the highest paid OTs in the league.

[fredtoast]

(08-25-2019, 11:26 PM)NKURyan Wrote: When you spend a first round draft choice on a wide receiver and then throw in the towel on him after one bad play his rookie season, that was bad of Marvin.

Except is was not just "one bad play".  He was injured and sucked in practice.

Again complain about Marvin for not holding players accountable then complain when he does hold a player accountable.

See a pattern here?

[NKURyan]

(08-26-2019, 12:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Except is was not just "one bad play".  He was injured and sucked in practice.

Again complain about Marvin for not holding players accountable then complain when he does hold a player accountable.

See a pattern here?

So were Billy Price and Vontaze Burfict and he had no problem starting the two of them. Do you really want to do this again? See the fact that there's no pattern here? That's the complete opposite of accountability!

Marvin's gone, dude, you need to get over it. When the players who played under Marvin come out and say it's nice that ZT is actually holding people accountable and it's refreshing, the argument's basically done no matter how much you want to white knight Marv.

[fredtoast]

(08-26-2019, 12:43 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Marvin's gone, dude, you need to get over it. 

I am not the one who keeps bringing up Marvin.  You guys are the ones who need to get over it.

Marvin benched rookies who sucked like Ross and Ogbuehi.  But for some reason you want to rip him for not playing Ross while at the same time rip him for not holding players accountable.  You can't do both.

[*Nately120*]

(08-26-2019, 12:43 PM)NKURyan Wrote: So were Billy Price and Vontaze Burfict and he had no problem starting the two of them. Do you really want to do this again? See the fact that there's no pattern here? That's the complete opposite of accountability!

Marvin's gone, dude, you need to get over it. When the players who played under Marvin come out and say it's nice that ZT is actually holding people accountable and it's refreshing, the argument's basically done no matter how much you want to white knight Marv.

People seemed pretty happy when we took Price in the first round...I can't say I saw it coming that playing him would have been a move held against Marvin.

[THE PISTONS]

(08-26-2019, 01:15 PM)Nately120 Wrote: People seemed pretty happy when we took Price in the first round...I can't say I saw it coming that playing him would have been a move held against Marvin.

The only thing that I saw that kind of foreshadowed it some was Elflein struggling so bad for the Vikings. Also, other teams that drafted Centers made them Guards as rookies.

[*bfine32*]

(08-26-2019, 11:07 AM)Bengalitis Wrote: There, fixed your Signature. 

Hey, it's better than what I got. The funny thing is last year it had John Ross and I changed it (well someone smart did it for me) to Boyd. Glad I didn't ask for a Jonah update after this draft. Maybe I should scrap the Young Guns theme. Maybe work something into Longshots with Willis and Hopkins:

[NKURyan]

(08-26-2019, 01:15 PM)Nately120 Wrote: People seemed pretty happy when we took Price in the first round...I can't say I saw it coming that playing him would have been a move held against Marvin.

You can't have it both ways, man - if you're going to bench Ross for struggling and turning the ball over, you should also bench a struggling Billy Price who was snapping the ball so bad he got his QB knocked out for the season. Accountability is setting standards that apply to everyone, not picking and choosing who you apply them to. 

For the record, I would've played each of my first round picks through their rookie years, for two reasons: 1) you need those guys to develop if you're going to turn things around, and 2) the Bengals were bad anyways. I would have happily ran Ced, Ross, and Price out there to take their lumps and go through their ups and downs. That's holding all three of them to the same standards - that's accountability!

So Fred will sit here and say "well here he is holding one guy accountable" without realizing that you don't just hold one guy accountable, you have to hold the whole team accountable or it's not accountability. Fred think he's citing an example of accountability, when all he's really doing is citing an example of discipline, and he doesn't realize that they're not the same thing. When Price can get away with mistakes while Ross wasn't allowed to, that's not accountability. When Burfict can rack up mounds of penalty yards and get plugged right into the starting lineup anytime he was actually healthy enough to play and was unsuspended, that's not accountability. I'm pretty sure that's why we've heard all of these players actually comment on the fact that ZT is holding them accountable for a change, because they're not stupid and they knew it wasn't happening here before.

I never had a problem with Marv's disciplining his players, but I sure as hell though he was awful at holding his team accountable - because he was.

[*Nately120*]

(08-26-2019, 05:27 PM)NKURyan Wrote: You can't have it both ways, man - if you're going to bench Ross for struggling and turning the ball over, you should also bench a struggling Billy Price who was snapping the ball so bad he got his QB knocked out for the season. Accountability is setting standards that apply to everyone, not picking and choosing who you apply them to. 

This goes back to the notion that we see these guys on Sunday but the coaches see them all week long.  It's not hard to imagine Ross being a bit of a disappointment on the practice field and Price actually giving more of a hoot.  But really, my point is that we are really going ape with the whole "ZT is the opposite of Marvin" narrative.

Marvin benched crappy high draft pick o-linemen, didn't he?

Again, this notion that Marvin didn't hold players accountable just seems more like a generic narrative that says "We don't miss Marvin" more than a legitimate critique of his coaching style.  It'll be interesting to see how much these off-season differences impact actual game day results, that's for sure.

[fredtoast]

(08-26-2019, 05:27 PM)NKURyan Wrote: You can't have it both ways, man - if you're going to bench Ross for struggling and turning the ball over, you should also bench a struggling Billy Price who was snapping the ball so bad he got his QB knocked out for the season. Accountability is setting standards that apply to everyone, not picking and choosing who you apply them to. 

So basically you either want some impossible standard, i.e bench every player that ever makes a single mistake, or you just want to pick and choose which players YOU WANT for Marvin to bench.

Ross was doing NOTHING right in 2017.  He still sucked a year later.  Price was not having a lot of problems snapping the ball.

[*psychdoctor*]

I thought this was interesting...

Asked #Bengals O line coach Jim Turner how Billy Price received the news that he had been beat out by Trey Hopkins for the starting job at center: pic.twitter.com/3pOFF4jaOb

— Jay Morrison (@JayMorrisonATH) August 26, 2019

[*Synric*]

(08-26-2019, 01:53 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Hey, it's better than what I got. The funny thing is last year it had John Ross and I changed it (well someone smart did it for me) to Boyd. Glad I didn't ask for a Jonah update after this draft. Maybe I should scrap the Young Guns theme. Maybe work something into Longshots with Willis and Hopkins:

Only if you can give Damion Willis the pigtails.

[NKURyan]

(08-26-2019, 05:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So basically you either want some impossible standard, i.e bench every player that ever makes a single mistake, or you just want to pick and choose which players YOU WANT for Marvin to bench.

Ross was doing NOTHING right in 2017.  He still sucked a year later.  Price was not having a lot of problems snapping the ball.

That's not what I said at all - I want consistency and accountability, and it can easily exist between your two extremes. That's what you do here, though - completely over exaggerate and pull things out your ass. You do you.

Bash Ross all you want (it's deserved), but at least he got on the friggin' field his sophomore season. Right now that's not even a guarantee for Billy, but we'll see. Maybe he learned last year he could get away with some bad habits?

[HarleyDog]

(08-26-2019, 06:18 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I thought this was interesting...

Asked #Bengals O line coach Jim Turner how Billy Price received the news that he had been beat out by Trey Hopkins for the starting job at center: pic.twitter.com/3pOFF4jaOb

— Jay Morrison (@JayMorrisonATH) August 26, 2019

Shit! That motivated me to start working on my center skills, and I'm 52 and never played center in my life? However, that was a perfect response. He lifted Billy high and we need that kind of leadership.

[Luvnit2]

(08-26-2019, 06:18 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I thought this was interesting...

Asked #Bengals O line coach Jim Turner how Billy Price received the news that he had been beat out by Trey Hopkins for the starting job at center: pic.twitter.com/3pOFF4jaOb

— Jay Morrison (@JayMorrisonATH) August 26, 2019

I love it. If you want the job, then beat out the other guys for the job. Work harder on the field, in the weight room and in the classroom. I hope every non starter gets these same candid talks and then position coach is giving them specifics on why they are coming up short.

Never assume a player knows his weaknesses, communication needs to be candid and open.

[THE PISTONS]

(08-26-2019, 06:52 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Shit! That motivated me to start working on my center skills, and I'm 52 and never played center in my life? However, that was a perfect response. He lifted Billy high and we need that kind of leadership.

Sadly Hopkins is so mediocre that you could possibly beat him out if you worked hard enough!

[HarleyDog]

(08-26-2019, 07:01 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Sadly Hopkins is so mediocre that you could possibly beat him out if you worked hard enough!

Billy has not been stellar. I think they are figuring who fits the scheme better. Either way, it creates competition and that's a good thing.

[Whatever]

(08-26-2019, 05:46 PM)Nately120 Wrote: This goes back to the notion that we see these guys on Sunday but the coaches see them all week long.  It's not hard to imagine Ross being a bit of a disappointment on the practice field and Price actually giving more of a hoot.  But really, my point is that we are really going ape with the whole "ZT is the opposite of Marvin" narrative.

Marvin benched crappy high draft pick o-linemen, didn't he?

Again, this notion that Marvin didn't hold players accountable just seems more like a generic narrative that says "We don't miss Marvin" more than a legitimate critique of his coaching style.  It'll be interesting to see how much these off-season differences impact actual game day results, that's for sure.

There were numerous clips of Ross torching guys in OTA's and TC last year, as well as tons of positive reports on his play.  It didn't carry over to the regular season, but he looked good in practice.  Meanwhile, there were almost daily reports of Price having snap issues that were largely overlooked and excused away by the fan base.  Boyd made one comment this off season about Ross thinking too much instead of playing fast and people spun it into everything from he can't learn the playbook to be looked terrible in OTA's.  Meanwhile, Price has admitted himself that he had trouble learning the playbook last year, and nobody piles on him for it.  Neither guy has done anything to suggest that they're lazy or that they don't care.  Both guys have their character and work ethic praised by the coaches.  I don't know where anybody could get the idea that one cares more than the other.