ESPN Predicts Ventell Bryant to make the 53

[Whatever]

(08-29-2019, 12:27 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Better idea. 

Keep Malone

Keep Tate

Dump Ross

They aren't dumping Ross.

Seriously, we went through this last year with Tate.  He makes a bunch of contested catches against the scrubs in preseason and when he got into games that counted against legit CB's, he sucked.

[Luvnit2]

(08-29-2019, 10:52 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Tate has been noted as improving his STs game tremendously this year and that he was the best WR on KOR and PR.

He's not a gunner though.

I think Tate has jumped Core as Core major value was only special teams. However, I thought Core had a solid camp at WR as well. My issue with Core was he did not step up last year when he got a shot with Green and Boyd out so he does not excite me as a WR.

The Bryant kid is a rookie, has very good size at 6'3", but I think he heads to the PS. I see a lot of people singing the praises of Morgan too, but he is not playing again tonight (I think) and has barely seen the field in preseason. I remember he had a good block, but not much tape on him. I know many loved him coming out of college and he was aprojected 5 or 6th round pick by some, but his health set him back if ZT stays with prove it on the field mentality when he makes the cuts. I think he will and Morgan is offered PS.

[Luvnit2]

(08-29-2019, 11:08 AM)Whatever Wrote: They aren't dumping Ross.

Seriously, we went through this last year with Tate.  He makes a bunch of contested catches against the scrubs in preseason and when he got into games that counted against legit CB's, he sucked.

I don't disagree, Tate would be a WR role guy unless he has emerged as a special team starter. He could not separate last year, but he was also a rookie so young. Receivers can and do get better with experience in the NF. We saw it with Boyd recently who made a huge jump. Some said Boyd sucked after his rookie year.

[THE PISTONS]

(08-29-2019, 11:12 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I don't disagree, Tate would be a WR role guy unless he has emerged as a special team starter. He could not separate last year, but he was also a rookie so young. Receivers can and do get better with experience in the NF. We saw it with Boyd recently who made a huge jump. Some said Boyd sucked after his rookie year.

Boyd had 54 catches for 603 yards as a rookie. Who would say he sucked?

I think something was going on his 2nd year that caused his PT to drop.

[Earendil]

This is the only way I can see Harley owning a cat:

[Luvnit2]

(08-29-2019, 11:25 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Boyd had 54 catches for 603 yards as a rookie. Who would say he sucked?

I think something was going on his 2nd year that caused his PT to drop.

There were people in this forum who were less than impressed, let's put it that way. Some fans expect our draft picks to be super stars year #1.

Then, in year 2 (22 receptions for 225 yards and 2 TD's) some said Boyd he was a bust.

Look around in here, our 2nd year WR Ross had 7 TD's in 2018 and many want him cut or traded. They are calling him a bust. He may not produce, but I want to see how he does in 2019. 

Boyd;s 1st 2 years, he had 76 catches for 828 yards, but only 3 TD's. Who saw 2018 and 76 catches (matched his first 2 years total, 1028 yards and 7 TD's coming.

I am hopeful Ross can pull a Boyd in year 3. Time will tell.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-29-2019, 12:27 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Better idea. 

Keep Malone

Keep Tate

Dump Ross

Ross has been more productive than Malone. No reason to keep Malone over Ross.

[Whatever]

(08-29-2019, 11:12 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I don't disagree, Tate would be a WR role guy unless he has emerged as a special team starter. He could not separate last year, but he was also a rookie so young. Receivers can and do get better with experience in the NF. We saw it with Boyd recently who made a huge jump. Some said Boyd sucked after his rookie year.

Problem is, he still can't seperate.  He's shown no ability to do so throughout the preseason, even against 2's and 3's.  He could still develop, but he really hasn't this year.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-29-2019, 11:39 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: There were people in this forum who were less than impressed, let's put it that way. Some fans expect our draft picks to be super stars year #1.

Then, in year 2 (22 receptions for 225 yards and 2 TD's) some said Boyd he was a bust.

Look around in here, our 2nd year WR Ross had 7 TD's in 2018 and many want him cut or traded. They are calling him a bust. He may not produce, but I want to see how he does in 2019. 

Boyd;s 1st 2 years, he had 76 catches for 828 yards, but only 3 TD's. Who saw 2018 and 76 catches (matched his first 2 years total, 1028 yards and 7 TD's coming.

I am hopeful Ross can pull a Boyd in year 3. Time will tell.

Some of that is recency bias.
Michael Thomas was a 2nd rounder in 2016 who had 1100+ yards and 9 TDs in his rookie year and has continued to put up great numbers every season.
JuJu Smith-Schuster, who was a 2nd round pick the same year the Bengals took Ross, put up 900+ yards and 7 TDs his rookie year and exploded last year.
These two 2nd rounders have outperformed their 1st round WR counterparts (so far).

The reality is most rookies (even 1st rounders) don't perform well their first 2-3 years in the league. 

[*bengalfan74*]

Bryant may make the PS ? I can't imagine he'll pass Core, Malone, Morgan, and Tate though to make the 53.

Whichever three of those four that aren't on the roster that is.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-29-2019, 11:40 AM)Whatever Wrote: Problem is, he still can't seperate.  He's shown no ability to do so throughout the preseason, even against 2's and 3's.  He could still develop, but he really hasn't this year.

Tate's separation is literally vertical. It's going "above the rim" to get the ball. That's his skill set. He isn't going to get horizontal separation. He's about as slow as a typical TE or LB.

[*bengalfan74*]

(08-29-2019, 11:55 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Tate's separation is literally vertical. It's going "above the rim" to get the ball. That's his skill set. He isn't going to get horizontal separation. He's about as slow as a typical TE or LB.

Exactly and his ability to box out and muscle his way open/to the ball.

I'm not sure why guys can't understand this ?

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-29-2019, 11:08 AM)Whatever Wrote: Seriously, we went through this last year with Tate.  He makes a bunch of contested catches against the scrubs in preseason and when he got into games that counted against legit CB's, he sucked.

Tate produced more than Malone last year and had more snaps, so the previous staff and the current staff played him more and he produced more...yet you keep pimping Malone, because...?

So if Tate sucked, how did your boy Malone do, with less snaps and less production? He sucked more, right?

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-29-2019, 11:55 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Tate's separation is literally vertical. It's going "above the rim" to get the ball. That's his skill set. He isn't going to get horizontal separation. He's about as slow as a typical TE or LB.

"Separation" is the biggest BS talking point for a WR. 

Not one damn HC in the NFL is going to keep a guy on the bench because he "can't get separation" on the field, if he's consistently making catches. 

Cracks me the F up. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-29-2019, 01:19 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Got to say: I was impressed with the way Bryant caught the ball . 

The football is like a one-man cold to Ventrell Bryant.

Ventrell Bryant's the only one catching it and only one coming down with it.

I like it.   

(08-29-2019, 07:49 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I don't think I saw Morgan "drop shit" in the preseason, nor did Core.  Malone, however....Heck, even Boyd had a huge drive-killing drop.  One thing is for sure:  If Malone doesn't make it, he will likely get picked up and our depth looks really solid with Morgan and Bryant on the PS.  

That is assuming it is Tate and Core that make the final two spots.  I think ST wins out in this close race, and it appears Core and Tate did a lot of extra work in the offseason.   

Could be, I would rather cut ties with Core than Malone at this point but in the end Simmons always has 
the call to keep his ST's solid. ST's can be very underrated and if you are a bubble guy that plays well it is 
what can get you through.

[jj22]

(08-29-2019, 10:49 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Are we?

It seems every preseason we only watch our team and think our team is sooo deep at WR.

I remember last year discussing how deep we were and how tough the cuts. Then, as the year went by, Green was hurt, Boyd was hurt and Ross was hurt. We did not have a receiver step up, in fact they looked horrible. I know they had a back up throwing to them, but our lack of depth showed when our top 3 went down.

I think like every year, we have a bunch of WR's who are similar or have certain strengths, but also have weaknesses (like poor separation ability or average blockers) so we confuse it with can't miss guys may get cut.

Fair enough. They haven't proven anything when it counts.

[jj22]

(08-29-2019, 10:52 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Tate has been noted as improving his STs game tremendously this year and that he was the best WR on KOR and PR.

He's not a gunner though.

Good, he'll need to. I hadn't noticed him on teams. But I might not have watching teams closely.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-29-2019, 12:39 PM)jj22 Wrote: Good, he'll need to. I hadn't noticed him on teams. But I might not have watching teams closely.

Simmons has been talking Tate up.

I think he makes the team based on this alone.

[Whatever]

(08-29-2019, 12:04 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Tate produced more than Malone last year and had more snaps, so the previous staff and the current staff played him more and he produced more...yet you keep pimping Malone, because...?

So if Tate sucked, how did your boy Malone do, with less snaps and less production? He sucked more, right?

(08-29-2019, 12:10 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: "Separation" is the biggest BS talking point for a WR. 

Not one damn HC in the NFL is going to keep a guy on the bench because he "can't get separation" on the field, if he's consistently making catches. 

Cracks me the F up. 

Malone was hurt last year.  Your boy that consistently makes catches only caught 4 of his 12 targets against 1's in games that mattered.  It's amazing that against CB's that can actually play the ball in the air and get good leverage that Tate can't produce.

Are you seriously pimping PS playing time?  You realize Taylor has been resting his good players as much as possible, right?  Malone got more seperation on that should have been a TD in week 1 than Tate has gotten  his entire pro career combined.

If separation doesn't matter, then why doesn't every team just roll 4 6'6" TE's out there every snap?  Tate's speed makes things harder for everyone else on the field.  S's cheat into the box to stop the run and cheat on guys like AJ and Boyd.  CB's jump his routes trying for picks because he ain't going anywhere if they miss.  Contested catches lead to tipped balls which leads to more passes coming back the other way.

[SunsetBengal]

(08-29-2019, 10:34 AM)jj22 Wrote: The problem with Tate is he offers nothing so Special Teams and don't you have to if you are the 5th, 6th, 7th receiver?

They love his blocking in the run game so that may be his saving grace.

Once the ball has been fielded, isn't a STs play essentially a running play?  If Tate can block in the running game, he should be a valuable blocker on STs.