Surprised Cuts

[THE PISTONS]

I'm kind of excited to watch who gets cut from around the league.

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-30-2019, 10:43 AM)fredtoast Wrote: "Since special teams don't matter we should keep Tate."

I was going to ignore this comment, but considering how ridiculous, disingenuous and outright wrong it is, i changed my mind. 

I did a search for "special teams" and browsed through the first 15 pages for any user that would possibly make this claim. I found none. 

Since i have made the comment that competition between two receivers for a final spot shouldn't be determined on special teams, since it's not as important as what they can offer on offense, i have to assume you directed this at me. 

You have a long history of twisting what is said to create strawman arguments, making stuff up and turning nothing into something, then going around and telling other posters to stop doing those same things. Since i'm tired of this libel, you can either stop making shit up that i supposedly said or i will just go ahead and start reporting every single instance where you do it. 

I don't come on here, take the time to form legitimate points/opinions for discussion only to have someone with a supposedly higher level of education--to your average person--twist, contort and lie in an attempt to put words in my mouth that weren't there in the first place. 

[*bfine32*]

(08-30-2019, 12:48 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I'm kind of excited to watch who gets cut from around the league.

They most likely are not

[yellowxdiscipline]

(08-30-2019, 10:43 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Why not mock the Tate fans?  They are even more ridiculous than the Core fans.

"Since special teams don't matter we should keep Tate."

Core NFL career... 30 rec...... 12.0 avg..... 50.8 catch percentage..... 6.1 yds per target..... 1 td
Tate NFL career...  4 rec.......  8.8 avg...... 33.3 catch percentage..... 2.9 yds per target..... 0 td 

Not arguing for any of them really just arguing that being a good special teamer is a weak argument to keep a player. It's the kinda thing id expect Marvin Lewis to say on cut down day.

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-30-2019, 10:56 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I doubt that coaches solely make preseason games the deciding factor for cutting guys since it's hard to really evaluate 1's going against 1's that play decent vs 2's against 2's that look good.

But, special teams are important. I was listening to a show on the radio where Steelers fans wanted some of their LB's cut and the guys point was that special teams are huge and the guys they wanted cut were good on special teams. vs The guys that were kept being depth guys that wouldn't see regular snaps.

(08-30-2019, 11:31 AM)Shady Wrote: Yeah, Core can catch anything that hits him in the numbers, but that's it. Malone is likely to drop it if it hits his numbers. He does make more acrobatic catches than Core though. 

Bryant is just better as a WR.
ST's is a concern though. Fred's right. Maybe they can convert Core to safety.  

(08-30-2019, 12:09 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: special teams are important field position is important..

I don't understand how football fans cant understand this lol

5th 6th 7th WR's aren't going to see the field much on offense at all and if they cant play ST's they might not be active on game days....   (just like a 4th RB or 5th/6th LBers etc....)    at least if they are seeing the field things have gone way downhill

(08-30-2019, 12:39 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Spot on. If people don't understand that ST's can win or lose a game they don't watch football or just take good ST's play for granted. There are 3 phases in this game, all are equally important.

This is exactly why this lying bullshit pisses me off. None one has ever said special teams aren't important, yet someone posts some bullshit and here are 4 examples of someone latching onto it, untrue as it is, reinforcing a point that was based on lies. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-30-2019, 12:04 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: we should definitely be consider Bryant for the Practice squad   but not the roster at this point

Yep. I don't see room for him on the roster right now, but i would keep an eye on the bottom of the depth chart and if someone isn't getting the job done--in practice or on the field--i wouldn't hesitate to call him up. 

It's a simple concept in the NFL. If you want to win, put the best players on the field, regardless of name, school or draft position. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-30-2019, 12:35 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: yeah I don't really like the LB we drafted this year either...  He might not make it.   And we are probly watching the waiver wire for LBers….

Jefferson is just bad and Nickerson and...Dixon? (what's the guys name?) are just too slow to keep up with skill players.

[yellowxdiscipline]

(08-30-2019, 01:00 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I was going to ignore this comment, but considering how ridiculous, disingenuous and outright wrong it is, i changed my mind. 

I did a search for "special teams" and browsed through the first 15 pages for any user that would possibly make this claim. I found none. 

Since i have made the comment that competition between two receivers for a final spot shouldn't be determined on special teams, since it's not as important as what they can offer on offense, i have to assume you directed this at me. 

You have a long history of twisting what is said to create strawman arguments, making stuff up and turning nothing into something, then going around and telling other posters to stop doing those same things. Since i'm tired of this libel, you can either stop making shit up that i supposedly said or i will just go ahead and start reporting every single instance where you do it. 

I don't come on here, take the time to form legitimate points/opinions for discussion only to have someone with a supposedly higher level of education--to your average person--twist, contort and lie in an attempt to put words in my mouth that weren't there in the first place. 

I think he was directing it at me, but hell ill say it. I give no shits about what a player contributes on special teams, if i think a player might be a better option to keep vice another player im not basing any opinion on keeping them on anything to do with special teams "value". These guys have all played on a special teams unit at one point or another, they should be able to grasp those concepts. All I care about is if they have something to offer if they are called up to contribute at the position they were drafted and signed for.

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-30-2019, 01:24 PM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: I think he was directing it at me, but hell ill say it. I give no shits about what a player contributes on special teams, if i think a player might be a better option to keep vice another player im not basing any opinion on keeping them on anything to do with special teams "value". These guys have all played on a special teams unit at one point or another, they should be able to grasp those concepts. All I care about is if they have something to offer if they are called up to contribute at the position they were drafted and signed for.

That's exactly the point i've made. I'm not basing choosing a guy because of teams if the other guy can do more on offense. 

I've still never seen where you said "special teams don't matter". 

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-30-2019, 12:11 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It will be interesting to see. I often wonder how coaches view the preseason games.

We've seen some guys play well like DeDe Dorsey several years ago and not make the roster.

Yep. And sometimes if you wait too long to shine, you cost yourself a potential spot. 

But who knows how well or bad they do in practice. The staff will take it all into consideration. 

[fredtoast]

(08-30-2019, 01:14 PM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: Not arguing for any of them really just arguing that being a good special teamer is a weak argument to keep a player.

And I am saying that you are wrong.

Some players are better at ST than other players.  It is not as simple to "plug and play" as you think.  And if a player is going to play 15 snaps a game on ST and zero on offense or defense then that is a good reason to keep him.

Obviously this only applies when two players are close in their skill sets for their position.  If one is clearly better you keep him and try to work someone else into the special teams slot.

[yellowxdiscipline]

(08-30-2019, 01:15 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: This is exactly why this lying bullshit pisses me off. None one has ever said special teams aren't important, yet someone posts some bullshit and here are 4 examples of someone latching onto it, untrue as it is, reinforcing a point that was based on lies. 

Special teams are important ive never argued against that. You obviously would like to have a reliable kicker who can make the clutch kicks, a punter who can pin the opponent deep, and a returner who is fast and can bring returns back for touchdowns.

Lets face it though, if you're not one of those above, you're merely just a guy who's not slow,  and can show some basic blocking and tackling.

Are these things we should be placing emphasis on keeping a player like Auden Tate whos a big sure handed receiver who could be a serious impact in red zone situations but may not be as fast as a guy like Cody Core who isn't as reliable but he is sure is a damn fine special teamer. If you think so then fine, but i dont put any stock into it.

[yellowxdiscipline]

(08-30-2019, 01:32 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And I am saying that you are wrong.

Some players are better at ST than other players.  It is not as simple to "plug and play" as you think.  And if a player is going to play 15 snaps a game on ST and zero on offense or defense then that is a good reason to keep him.

Obviously this only applies when two players are close in their skill sets for their position.  If one is clearly better you keep him and try to work someone else into the special teams slot.

Nah but ok.

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-30-2019, 01:36 PM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: Special teams are important ive never argued against that. You obviously would like to have a reliable kicker who can make the clutch kicks, a punter who can pin the opponent deep, and a returner who is fast and can bring returns back for touchdowns.
Yep

Lets face it though, if you're not one of those above, you're merely just a guy who's not slow,  and can show some basic blocking and tackling.
Yep

Are these things we should be placing emphasis on keeping a player like Auden Tate whos a big sure handed receiver who could be a serious impact in red zone situations but may not be as fast as a guy like Cody Core who isn't as reliable but he is sure is a damn fine special teamer. If you think so then fine, but i dont put any stock into it.
Nope

[yellowxdiscipline]

Linebacker Brandon Marshall was just cut by the Raiders. Leaps and bounds better then Nickerson or Jefferson, but nah we dont need him.

[Whatever]

With the injuries at RB, I can see Ellis or Flowers making it to start the season and only 6 WR's being kept.

Core led the team in receiving during the preseason and has been the most consistent of the bubble WR's. Between that and ST's, I think he wins the #6 job, Bryant goes to the PS, and Tate goes to IR.

[fredtoast]

(08-30-2019, 01:36 PM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: Are these things we should be placing emphasis on keeping a player like Auden Tate whos a big sure handed receiver who could be a serious impact in red zone situations but may not be as fast as a guy like Cody Core who isn't as reliable but he is sure is a damn fine special teamer. If you think so then fine, but i dont put any stock into it.

Okay then, completely ignore special teams play.  Just look at what Core and Tate have done in games and tell me why Tate is "more reliable" receiver than Core.

Here are their regular season numbers

Core NFL career... 30 rec...... 12.0 avg..... 50.8 catch percentage..... 6.1 yds per target
Tate NFL career...  4 rec.......  8.8 avg...... 33.3 catch percentage..... 2.9 yds per target

Here are their numbers from this years preseason

Core... 13 rec... 12.3 avg..... 68.4 catch percentage..... 8.4 yds per target
Tate...   8 rec...   8.5 avg..... 72.7 catch percentage..... 6.2 yds per target

People complain about how Marvin would keep players who did not produce on the field over those who did, but then they turn around and claim we should keep Tate just because he is tall.

[yellowxdiscipline]

(08-30-2019, 02:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Okay then, completely ignore special teams play.  Just look at what Core and Tate have done in games and tell me why Tate is "more reliable" receiver than Core.

Here are their regular season numbers

Core NFL career... 30 rec...... 12.0 avg..... 50.8 catch percentage..... 6.1 yds per target
Tate NFL career...  4 rec.......  8.8 avg...... 33.3 catch percentage..... 2.9 yds per target

Here are their numbers from this years preseason

Core... 13 rec... 12.3 avg..... 68.4 catch percentage..... 8.4 yds per target
Tate...   8 rec...   8.5 avg..... 72.7 catch percentage..... 6.2 yds per target

People complain about how Marvin would keep players who did not produce on the field over those who did, but then they turn around and claim we should keep Tate just because he is tall.

ok thats cool and all but im not advocating for Tate, Morgan, Malone or Bryant in comparison. Just saying when people say we should keep Core over Player X, because Core is good at special teams I dont buy it.

[*Synric*]

(08-30-2019, 02:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Okay then, completely ignore special teams play.  Just look at what Core and Tate have done in games and tell me why Tate is "more reliable" receiver than Core.

Here are their regular season numbers

Core NFL career... 30 rec...... 12.0 avg..... 50.8 catch percentage..... 6.1 yds per target
Tate NFL career...  4 rec.......  8.8 avg...... 33.3 catch percentage..... 2.9 yds per target

Here are their numbers from this years preseason

Core... 13 rec... 12.3 avg..... 68.4 catch percentage..... 8.4 yds per target
Tate...   8 rec...   8.5 avg..... 72.7 catch percentage..... 6.2 yds per target

People complain about how Marvin would keep players who did not produce on the field over those who did, but then they turn around and claim we should keep Tate just because he is tall.

Neat that you are comparing Core's 3 NFL seasons to Auden Tates 1. Also Tate only played in 2 pre season games this year. Not to mention if you go by numbers Bryant had better than Core and Tate.

...but it's not about numbers its evaluating talent. Auden Tate has shown he has a huge catch radius and snags the ball out of the air.

[fredtoast]

(08-30-2019, 02:16 PM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: ok thats cool and all but im not advocating for Tate, Morgan, Malone or Bryant in comparison. Just saying when people say we should keep Core over Player X, because Core is good at special teams I dont buy it.

You said Tate was "more reliable" that Core.  That is what I want you to explain.